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Theory about resolution of "Beast of Stone" Prophecy


a1andrew

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14 minutes ago, Damon_Tor said:

Any and all children Daenerys has will be descendants of both Aerys and Rhaella regardless of who the fathers are. There's still an entirely valid "none of the above" option on the table.

I think that a son of Aegon and Daenerys will be the once and future king of Westeros, but the War for the Dawn will be won before that. 

ETA

Wow, we are way off topic. So, how about that stone beast again? 

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14 minutes ago, Lost Melnibonean said:

I think that a son of Aegon and Daenerys will be the once and future king of Westeros, but the War for the Dawn will be won before that.

Somewhat difficult to reconcile a "Winter that lasts a generation" with a human victory at the end of ADoS.

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1 hour ago, Damon_Tor said:

Somewhat difficult to reconcile a "Winter that lasts a generation" with a human victory at the end of ADoS.

I doubt this winter will last a generation. The George couldn't even leave in a five-year gap to let his younger characters grow some whiskers. 

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14 minutes ago, Lost Melnibonean said:

I doubt this winter will last a generation. The George couldn't even leave in a five-year gap to let his younger characters grow some whiskers. 

Oh, I don't think there will be a gap. I think it's going to end with our last surviving "main" character (Tyrion, if I were a betting man, but that's just a feeling) watching the sun rise for the last time, barely peek above the horizon to the South, then set moments later, and he would never see it again. He'll probably have Dany's third baby, the one she died giving birth to (bonus points for "Promise me, Tyrion" but that would be awfully on the nose) and he'll have some vague idea that this baby might someday save the world. Even money on whether or not her other two children will be with them, wherever they are (Winterfell? Dragonstone?) or if the three children will be scattered at the end.

But yeah, that's my prediction. Others take over the world, Fimbulwinter is here, almost everyone is dead... but hey, we still got the Chosen One(s) so GRRM gets to defend calling it "bittersweet".

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5 hours ago, Damon_Tor said:

Any and all children Daenerys has will be descendants of both Aerys and Rhaella regardless of who the fathers are. There's still an entirely valid "none of the above" option on the table.

Good heavens! That's true, but do you think the story will go long enough for any of Dany's children to be of any assistance in the War for the Dawn.

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5 minutes ago, bent branch said:

Good heavens! That's true, but do you think the story will go long enough for any of Dany's children to be of any assistance in the War for the Dawn.

Well, in the last TWOW sample chapter, 

Spoiler

we kinda see the use of an unborn child...

I'm not suggesting that Dany will meet the same end as Falia, but that a pregnancy, with Jon as father, might bring about an interesting combo and/or a peak of powers.

 

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14 minutes ago, bent branch said:

Good heavens! That's true, but do you think the story will go long enough for any of Dany's children to be of any assistance in the War for the Dawn.

I don't expect we'll see the War for the Dawn at all. That's not what the books are about.

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15 minutes ago, Ygrain said:

Well, in the last TWOW sample chapter, 

  Hide contents

we kinda see the use of an unborn child...

I'm not suggesting that Dany will meet the same end as Falia, but that a pregnancy, with Jon as father, might bring about an interesting combo and/or a peak of powers.

 

I never thought about that before. I feel ill. 

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11 minutes ago, Damon_Tor said:

I don't expect we'll see the War for the Dawn at all. That's not what the books are about.

Um...

Quote

Roughly speaking, there are three major conflicts set in motion in the chapters enclosed. These will form the major plot threads of the trilogy, intertwining with each other in what should be a complex but exciting (I hope) narrative tapestry. Each of the conflicts presents a major threat to the peace of my imaginary realm, the Seven Kingdoms, and to the lives of my principal characters.

The first threat grows from the emnity between the great houses of Lannister and Stark as it plays out in a cycle of plot, counterplot, ambition, murder, and revenge, with the iron throne of the Seven Kingdoms as the ultimate prize. This will form the backbone of the first volume of the trilogy, A Game of Thrones.

While the lion of Lannister and the direwolf of Stark snarl and scrap, however, a second and greater threat takes shape across the narrow sea, where the Dothraki horselords mass their barbarian hordes for a great invasion of the Seven Kingdoms, led by the fierce and beautiful Daenerys Stormborn, the last of the Targaryen dragonlords. The Dothraki invasion will be the central story of my second volume, A Dance with Dragons.

The greatest danger of all, however, comes from the north, from the icy wastes beyond the Wall, where half-forgotten demons out of legend, the inhuman others, raise cold legions of the undead and the neverborn and prepare to ride down on the winds of winter to extinguish everything that we would call "life." The only thing that stands between the Seven Kingdoms and an endless night is the Wall, and a handful of men in black called the Night's Watch. Their story will be [sic] heart of my third volume, The Winds of Winter. The final battle will also draw together characters and plot threads left from the first two books and resolve all in one huge climax.

http://www.businessinsider.com/game-of-thrones-was-supposed-to-be-a-trilogy-2015-2

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11 minutes ago, Lost Melnibonean said:

I never thought about that before. I feel ill. 

If it can comfort you, me too.

 

Thinking backwards, i.e. from the lies to be slain, I've come with another candidate: Varys. If he is a Blackfyre himself, then he is a dragon. The smoking tower would be the Red Keep, set afire with that stash of wildfire which hasn't been found yet (some ingenious person compared Jaime's account of where the wildfire was stashed with the account of the locations all around KL where it was found, and the Keep is only on Jaime's list, and then s/he proposed that the part of the dungeon where Varys puts out the torch is where that wildfire is stashed). The shadow fire would then be black, because that's the colour of deep shadows. and it signifies Varys attempting covertly the Blackfyre restoration. After all, Dany should beware the perfumed seneschal...

- Okay, haven't been able to figure out the stone part, I admit. Very symbolically, it could be a parallel with the petrified dragon eggs, seemingly inactive but brought to life when the conditions allowed it. 

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7 hours ago, Lost Melnibonean said:

I think that a son of Aegon and Daenerys will be the once and future king of Westeros, but the War for the Dawn will be won before that. 

ETA

Wow, we are way off topic. So, how about that stone beast again? 

What? You think the promised prince isn't Aerys II's great-great-great-great-great-granddaughter? I don't know what to say... ;-).

1 hour ago, Lost Melnibonean said:

I never thought about that before. I feel ill. 

Why are people so obsessed with blood sacrifices?

Dany and Jon aren't evil sorcerers like Euron.

And the important part there is never 'the power of king's blood' but the worth of a sacrifice. Euron killing his unborn child and brother as well as other people with magical abilities (which means they most likely have 'special blood' of various strains) is what's going to seal the deal.

1 hour ago, Ygrain said:

Thinking backwards, i.e. from the lies to be slain, I've come with another candidate: Varys. If he is a Blackfyre himself, then he is a dragon. The smoking tower would be the Red Keep, set afire with that stash of wildfire which hasn't been found yet (some ingenious person compared Jaime's account of where the wildfire was stashed with the account of the locations all around KL where it was found, and the Keep is only on Jaime's list, and then s/he proposed that the part of the dungeon where Varys puts out the torch is where that wildfire is stashed). The shadow fire would then be black, because that's the colour of deep shadows. and it signifies Varys attempting covertly the Blackfyre restoration. After all, Dany should beware the perfumed seneschal...

- Okay, haven't been able to figure out the stone part, I admit. Very symbolically, it could be a parallel with the petrified dragon eggs, seemingly inactive but brought to life when the conditions allowed it. 

Varys is the guy controlling Aegon. Why would there be a vision depicting Aegon as the cloth dragon and then another rather convoluted symbolic vision depicting the mummer holding the cloth dragon as a stone beast breathing shadow fire on a tower?

Those three visions - Stannis, Aegon, and the shadow beast - as well as the other prophecies (the three treasons, three mounts, three fires) as well as the triplet set of visions referring to 'mother of dragons, daughter of death' and 'mother of dragon, bride of fire' don't seem to refer to events or person that are connected to each other.

We don't get a vision referring to Stannis and another to Melisandre, Shireen, Selyse, Ser Axell, etc. because touching one person in the center of that complex is enough.

In that sense the stone beast is likely to be person not part of the Aegon or the Stannis complex. And that's why Euron is the best candidate so far.

The idea that wildfire is still lying around in the section of the castle where Varys leads Tyrion through would only make sense in a fairy-tale or cartoon setting. This is a section of the castle outside of the secret tunnels. Everybody entering the dungeon level has access to that. Sure, Varys effectively runs that place but the idea that no member of the Baratheon or Lannister regime ever came down there in nearly two decades just stretches credibility to the extreme. 

If there were any wildfire in the Red Keep left from Aerys' days it would be hidden at a place where nobody is going to find it. But then - why on earth should Varys continue to hide wildfire that is going to become more and more volatile with each year beneath the castle he lives in? The castle he wants Aegon to rule from when the time is right? Does he want to die? Does he want Aegon to rule over charred bones and ashes?

If Varys burned the Red Keep he could kiss his Aegon scheme goodbye. A Targaryen pretender wouldn't be worth all that much without the visible symbols of Targaryen power - and that's KL, the Red Keep, and the Iron Throne.

Varys is also not a very good candidate for the perfumed seneschal. Both because of Reznak's clear betrayal (who is actually more of a real seneschal whereas Varys - while perfumed - is just a spymaster) as well as because of the ship of the same name (if we take that is the true meaning then one wonders who the danger is Dany should keep an eye out for - it isn't Penny, most likely, and Tyrion and Moqorro are the lion and the dark flame, respectively). That only leaves Jorah as the other important passenger on the ship, and it is not that unlikely that he is going to be one of the people to betray her. He is not happy with her marriage, and he will hate the consummated Daario affair. In Volantis it is clear that widow of the waterfront doesn't trust him or his motivations. She only helps him when she realizes that the dwarf is Tyrion Lannister.

But come to think of it - perhaps it is Pretty Pig, after all. And I never trusted Crunch, either. 

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On 8/9/2017 at 5:02 PM, a1andrew said:

<snip

As far as Aegon being a Blackfyre, I've historically been more inclined to side with you in holding that he's not a Blackfyre or a fraud in general, but have kinda given up that opposition (although I wouldn't mind being wrong).  I was very torn on that, mainly because of one major problem with it (also relating to House of Undying), but I have a theory on how everything makes sense.  I think I'll post a new thread on that shortly.

I'm actually kind of neutral on Aegon as a Blackfyre. He can be one and it won't bother me. I just get annoyed when people state unequivocally that he is one and ignore the rich possibilities that arise if he's exactly who he thinks he is. Besides which I have a theory on who the "real" Blackfyre might be and I'm kind of stuck on it.

Looking forward to your thread on the issue.

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3 minutes ago, Lady Blizzardborn said:

I'm actually kind of neutral on Aegon as a Blackfyre. He can be one and it won't bother me. I just get annoyed when people state unequivocally that he is one and ignore the rich possibilities that arise if he's exactly who he thinks he is. Besides which I have a theory on who the "real" Blackfyre might be and I'm kind of stuck on it.

It's an intriguing thread

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If Aegon isn't Rhaegar's son he still would'nt be a Blackfyre. The Blackfyres are extinct in the male line, which means they are gone. Aegon could at best a Blackfyre descendant through the female line.

But that doesn't make him a Blackfyre in any meaningful sense. Else Robert would be a Targaryen, Harrold Hardyng an Arryn or Waynwood, Loras a Hightower, and Tywin either a Webber or Marbrand.

Aegon would most likely be a Mopatis, whatever that's worth.

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19 minutes ago, Lord Varys said:

If Aegon isn't Rhaegar's son he still would'nt be a Blackfyre. The Blackfyres are extinct in the male line, which means they are gone. Aegon could at best a Blackfyre descendant through the female line.

But that doesn't make him a Blackfyre in any meaningful sense. Else Robert would be a Targaryen, Harrold Hardyng an Arryn or Waynwood, Loras a Hightower, and Tywin either a Webber or Marbrand.

Aegon would most likely be a Mopatis, whatever that's worth.

’Tis but thy name that is my enemy;

Thou art thyself though, not a Montague.

What’s Montague? it is nor hand, nor foot,

Nor arm, nor face, nor any other part     

Belonging to a man. O! be some other name:

What’s in a name? that which we call a rose

By any other name would smell as sweet;

So Romeo would, were he not Romeo call’d,

Retain that dear perfection which he owes

Without that title. 

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3 minutes ago, Lost Melnibonean said:

’Tis but thy name that is my enemy;

Thou art thyself though, not a Montague.

What’s Montague? it is nor hand, nor foot,

Nor arm, nor face, nor any other part     

Belonging to a man. O! be some other name:

What’s in a name? that which we call a rose

By any other name would smell as sweet;

So Romeo would, were he not Romeo call’d,

Retain that dear perfection which he owes

Without that title. 

If that's so we could just as well not call him a Blackfyre, couldn't we ;-)?

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