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Theory about resolution of "Beast of Stone" Prophecy


a1andrew

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7 hours ago, Lord Varys said:

But come to think of it - perhaps it is Pretty Pig, after all. And I never trusted Crunch, either. 

Sure, the guy who had been pulling the strings for, how long? twenty years? is totally not worth a vision.

Not saying it must be Varys, but your reasoning for dismissing the idea like that is ridiculous.

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9 hours ago, Ygrain said:

Well, in the last TWOW sample chapter, 

  Reveal hidden contents

we kinda see the use of an unborn child...

I'm not suggesting that Dany will meet the same end as Falia, but that a pregnancy, with Jon as father, might bring about an interesting combo and/or a peak of powers.

 

I got a feeling that AA or the ptwp is meant to be sacrificed. Only death can pay for life and all that, Jon's refferences as corn king, the custom of the Pentosi princes being sacrificed, the power in king's blood ... 

The nature of the seasons is magical so the solution would be magical too. And magic in this series works of sacrifice.

I hadn't thought of what you're proposing, but it makes sense and it makes for a triplet, which we do not have at the moment. Mirri Maz Dur's proclamation would fit in as well as it kind of sounds as if she is describing the end of the world.

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51 minutes ago, Ygrain said:

Funny, the same idea popped up elsewhere :-)

Hadn't read that thread. I was thinking more along the lines of them throwing themselves in the heart of winter or something.

I wouldn't want to speculate on the specifics, but sacrifice is a theme, particularly with the characters that seem to be closer to the magical side.

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GRRM has fulfilled the 'from a smoking tower a great stone beast took wing, breathing shadow fire' part of the prophecy  already word for word in the burning of Winterfell chapter in Clash.

It is Bran.

There even is a literal stone beast which has taken wing (a gargoyle that fell during the Burning of Winterfell) now lying at the very spot of Bran's fall from the First Keep when Jamie pushed him. Which incidentally is right at the entrance to the crypts with their secret. Likely the lie that gets exposed there is Jon's parentage.

 

 

 

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1 hour ago, Amris said:

GRRM has fulfilled the 'from a smoking tower a great stone beast took wing, breathing shadow fire' part of the prophecy  already word for word in the burning of Winterfell chapter in Clash.

You mean, your interpretation of the scene fits with the prophecy.

1 hour ago, Amris said:

It is Bran.

There even is a literal stone beast which has taken wing (a gargoyle that fell during the Burning of Winterfell) now lying at the very spot of Bran's fall from the First Keep when Jamie pushed him. Which incidentally is right at the entrance to the crypts with their secret. Likely the lie that gets exposed there is Jon's parentage.

Well, if the lie is Jon's parentage, then why should the vision signify Bran? He is not the author of the lie, and even if he becomes the one to reveal it, it's still about Jon, not Bran. Furthermore, if Bran was the one to reveal it, why would Dany be "slayer of lies"? The inclusion of Bran doesn't make sense here.

But thanks for reminding about Apple Martini's old thread.

 

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14 hours ago, LordImp said:

That's exactly what the books are about.

I understand that's what everyone thinks the books are about. But the title of the series tells you what the books are about, and it's not a war. But for some reason every one is expecting it all to end with a big battle and then the world is saved and yeah maybe some main characters sacrifice themselves heroically (bittersweet!) but generally everything is okay.

Somehow, you've all managed to convince yourselves that this story ends with the problem being solved by war.

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3 hours ago, Amris said:

GRRM has fulfilled the 'from a smoking tower a great stone beast took wing, breathing shadow fire' part of the prophecy  already word for word in the burning of Winterfell chapter in Clash.

It is Bran.

There even is a literal stone beast which has taken wing (a gargoyle that fell during the Burning of Winterfell) now lying at the very spot of Bran's fall from the First Keep when Jamie pushed him. Which incidentally is right at the entrance to the crypts with their secret. Likely the lie that gets exposed there is Jon's parentage.

 

I can certainly see that. I am not buying it, but it could work. 

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1 hour ago, Ygrain said:

Furthermore, if Bran was the one to reveal it, why would Dany be "slayer of lies"? The inclusion of Bran doesn't make sense here.

The scene isn't the fulfilment of the prophecy but it is foreshadowing it. It relates to Bran in the way Euron relates to Bran. Bloodraven's first pupil, the original Bran he was trying to teach to fly but ended up breaking instead. He flew too high too early and fell. He is what could happen to Bran.

Bran's climbing is a metaphor for his 'flying', and so the warnings of Old Nan and Maester Luwin to Bran about falling are metaphors for what actually happened to Euron. Atop the broken tower where are the crow's nests and the crows that would peck out his eyes, the bad little boy, the pottery boy, Euron symbolism and the stone beast.

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Bran did his best, although he did not think he ever really fooled her. Since his father would not forbid it, she turned to others. Old Nan told him a story about a bad little boy who climbed too high and was struck down by lightning, and how afterward the crows came to peck out his eyes. Bran was not impressed. There were crows' nests atop the broken tower, where no one ever went but him, and sometimes he filled his pockets with corn before he climbed up there and the crows ate it right out of his hand. None of them had ever shown the slightest bit of interest in pecking out his eyes.

Later, Maester Luwin built a little pottery boy and dressed him in Bran's clothes and flung him off the wall into the yard below, to demonstrate what would happen to Bran if he fell. That had been fun, but afterward Bran just looked at the maester and said, "I'm not made of clay. And anyhow, I never fall."

 

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1 hour ago, Ygrain said:

You mean, your interpretation of the scene fits with the prophecy.

Well, if the lie is Jon's parentage, then why should the vision signify Bran? He is not the author of the lie, and even if he becomes the one to reveal it, it's still about Jon, not Bran. Furthermore, if Bran was the one to reveal it, why would Dany be "slayer of lies"? The inclusion of Bran doesn't make sense here.

But thanks for reminding about Apple Martini's old thread.

 

Jon is the dragon of Winterfell--the ice dragon. 

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9 hours ago, Ygrain said:

Sure, the guy who had been pulling the strings for, how long? twenty years? is totally not worth a vision.

Not saying it must be Varys, but your reasoning for dismissing the idea like that is ridiculous.

We can say that those schemers don't deserve a prominent place in visions because there aren't any visions pointing to such people, ever. There are no visions about Tywin Lannister, Doran Martell, Melisandre, or Littlefinger, either.

Varys is Aegon in a very real sense. He is the mummer behind the mummer's dragon. We don't need another vision pointing to the guy. He is already there in the cloth dragon, hidden in plain sight by the whole symbol of the cloth dragon.

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2 hours ago, Ygrain said:

You mean, your interpretation of the scene fits with the prophecy.

Well, if the lie is Jon's parentage, then why should the vision signify Bran? He is not the author of the lie, and even if he becomes the one to reveal it, it's still about Jon, not Bran. Furthermore, if Bran was the one to reveal it, why would Dany be "slayer of lies"? The inclusion of Bran doesn't make sense here.

But thanks for reminding about Apple Martini's old thread.

Indeed, Bran isn't a lie, he isn't a stone beast, he doesn't breathe shadow fire, and he is not going to be slain by anyone.

He is one of the good guys. Both the cloth dragon vision and the stone beast vision have yet to come true. And even the Stannis vision only sort of came true after Stannis became the King at the Wall. Prior to that this whole savior thing was just a small part of his propaganda. Now he wants to save the world and only become king afterwards.

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The most intriguing thing about the great stone beast being Jon is that each of the mother of dragons, slayer of lies, and bride of fire triplets would end with a vision relating to Jon Snow, and that follows the three fires, three mounts, and three treasons, each ending for or to love. 

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13 minutes ago, Lord Varys said:

We can say that those schemers don't deserve a prominent place in visions because there aren't any visions pointing to such people, ever. There are no visions about Tywin Lannister, Doran Martell, Melisandre, or Littlefinger, either.

Varys is Aegon in a very real sense. He is the mummer behind the mummer's dragon. We don't need another vision pointing to the guy. He is already there in the cloth dragon, hidden in plain sight by the whole symbol of the cloth dragon.

Oh, I don't know... There's a vision by Jaime, inspired by Bloodraven, that involves Tywin in Jaime VI, Storm 44, and there's one by Bran, again inspired by Bloodraven, that appears to involve Littlefinger in Bran III, Game 17. 

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1 hour ago, Damon_Tor said:

I understand that's what everyone thinks the books are about. But the title of the series tells you what the books are about, and it's not a war. But for some reason every one is expecting it all to end with a big battle and then the world is saved and yeah maybe some main characters sacrifice themselves heroically (bittersweet!) but generally everything is okay.

Somehow, you've all managed to convince yourselves that this story ends with the problem being solved by war.

A army of dead is on the march. Imo war is unavoidable right now. It dosent necessary have to end with a big battle , but there will be war. I"m pretty sure of that.

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10 minutes ago, Lost Melnibonean said:

Oh, I don't know... There's a vision by Jaime, inspired by Bloodraven, that involves Tywin in Jaime VI, Storm 44, and there's one by Bran, again inspired by Bloodraven, that appears to involve Littlefinger in Bran III, Game 17. 

That isn't a vision, that's a dream. There is nothing relevant about the future in that dream. It is a means to reprogram Jaime so that he does what Bloodraven wants him to do - save Brienne.

The other guy isn't Littlefinger. That's Ilyn Payne or Gregor Clegane (I'm leaning towards the former, in light of the way Sansa reacts to first meeting the man). Interpreting the giant there as Littlefinger is using stuff that has only been established in ASoS and projecting it back to one of the earliest chapters of AGoT. That doesn't really work all that well, especially in light of the fact that this dream didn't exactly predict the future but rather covered the present.

And Bran's dream isn't inspired by Bloodraven, it seem to be his own powers that give him the ability to see this stuff.

But my point is that no proper prophecy, vision, or dream of the future ever focused on the hidden schemers. That is a clear pattern. There are no prophetic dreams or visions about Varys/Illyrio, Littlefinger, Doran Martell, Roose Bolton, Walder Frey, and Tywin Lannister planning the Red Wedding. No dreams about Olenna Redwyne deciding to poison Joffrey. Instead we have the poison in Sansa's hair. Those visions and dreams are usually very superficial and tend to reduce or depict complex events as strange symbols.

That's why we can't really make sense of the stone beast, after all. Or of the corpse in the prow of that ship. 

12 minutes ago, Lost Melnibonean said:

Of course Bran is one of the good guys. So what if he steals Hodor's body once in a while and dines on ranger meat and Jojen paste. Our hero is just a little gray... er, grey. 

The idea of Jojen paste is a joke. Cannibalism is okay if human flesh is the only stuff you can eat, is it not? Sure, the Hodor thing is bad - but so what? The boy has to help save mankind. He is most likely going to receive his share of blood sacrifices and entrails hanging in the weirwoods in the near future, but that's not going to make him evil by the standards of this series.

Those lies that have to be slain are different categories, though. Some of those people will turn out to be evil (like Euron), others will simply be failures (like Stannis and possibly Aegon). They might not deserve to die but they will have to go so that the real heroes can take over. And Bran is not one of the people who is going to have to go. He is one of the main characters of the series, after all.

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50 minutes ago, Lost Melnibonean said:

The most intriguing thing about the great stone beast being Jon is that each of the mother of dragons, slayer of lies, and bride of fire triplets would end with a vision relating to Jon Snow, and that follows the three fires, three mounts, and three treasons, each ending for or to love. 

Yeah, this was noted in the old Apple Martini thread, as well:-)

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24 minutes ago, LordImp said:

A army of dead is on the march. Imo war is unavoidable right now. It dosent necessary have to end with a big battle , but there will be war. I"m pretty sure of that.

War is always bad, especially against an enemy you don't understand. In a GRRM world the only thing worse than losing a war is winning one, and the only way to win the game is not to play it.

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