The Puppet Master - Bran is manipulating everyone

[RhaenysBee]

5 hours ago, Lucius Lovejoy said:

I'm rooting for "The Sopranos" ending - just cut to black while the Starks are at dinner and leave it completely ambiguous as to whether or not they survive.  That's actually similar to the book ending with how GRRM just stopped writing after ADWD, and bittersweet in the sense that it sucks that we don't get resolution, but sweet that it isn't just "Bran did everything."

 

so now I can sleep well knowing that the books did after all have an ending, similar to the Sopranos. 

[Lurid Jester]

20 hours ago, Ser Yorick Ampersand said:

Bran alone is the most powerfull being in the world.

Littlefinger made a similar claim to Cersie once. 

I might agree if you'd said he's the most knowledgeable (potentially) person on planetos.    

Most powerful though?  We know he can see the present and past, and it's implied that he can see the future (thanks Jojen), but we haven't seen proof yet. 

Regardless, alone he can't do crap. He needs his family and allies. The previous 3ER was arguably better/more powerful than Bran, or at least more experienced.  He was alone. How much did he accomplish?

[Samwell_Tarly]

2 minutes ago, Lurid Jester said:

Littlefinger made a similar claim to Cersie once. 

I might agree if you'd said he's the most knowledgeable (potentially) person on planetos.    

Most powerful though?  We know he can see the present and past, and it's implied that he can see the future (thanks Jojen), but we haven't seen proof yet. 

Bran is only one of a few characters known to possess magical abilities, that pretty much says it all.

In Theory he can skinchange into any animal, potential interaction with the past. If Bloodraven said communication in the past was impossible he was either lying or he couldnt do it, hinting towards Bran being more powerful than him. 

We have seen the future from Bran in The Lion and the Rose, and also Blood of my Blood. 

2 minutes ago, Lurid Jester said:

Regardless, alone he can't do crap. He needs his family and allies.

Im pretty sure he can do alot more than crap, he doesnt particularly needs allies or family, by the looks of things they need him.

2 minutes ago, Lurid Jester said:

 

The previous 3ER was arguably better/more powerful than Bran, or at least more experienced.  He was alone. How much did he accomplish?

Please provide an arguement.....

The three eyed raven was the last greenseer as far as we are aware, so that would be reasoning as to why he wants Bran stark, so he can replace him. That means Bran is the last one, making him even more important. Other than observing we dont really know what the 3ER did to be honest we are never told this. You would think with his powers he would have had a more active role in the fate of the realm. Maybe thats what Bran has to do, hence him being more skilled and powerful than the 3ER.

[Lurid Jester]

10 minutes ago, Samwell_Tarly said:

Please provide an arguement.....

Bloodraven arguably had the same powers and abilities as bran does now. At least to the extent of seeing the future etc.  as far as we've seen he managed to get Bran north, and... what?

His attempts to teach Bran were undone because he had to sleep and Bran did something stupid.  

So if Bloodraven had such a big blind spot that he couldn't foresee a child, with a history of not doing what he's told, not doing what he was told then how many blind spots could Bran have. 

Bran. Who had all of ten years to build his life experiences before becoming the 3ER while BR had a very active adult life before going north. 

Bran is powerful for sure, but it's a power of influence and nudges as opposed to direct action.  At least as far as we've seen so far.  

As far as direct action goes... birthing a shadow assassin and raising the dead seems more powerful.  

I do admit that we don't know the full extent of Bran's abilities.  We also don't know what limits to those abilities might be. 

[WalkinDude]

5 hours ago, Samwell_Tarly said:

Are you high,

Season 6 episode 6 - he sees what happens in ep10, i.e the wildfire rip through kings landing how is this not the future????

How do you know that was the future?  The show has been horrible with time lines.  If we assume (based on Jon being at Dragonstone while Bran is at Winterfell) that the timelines of episodes are now synced, the Sept of Baelor being blown up could have happened weeks or months earlier.  Bran and Meera left the tree and headed straight to castle black, where we see them arrive in S7E1.  In S7E2, Arya learns from Hot Pie that everyone knows the Sept was destroyed by Cersei.  This shows that at a minimum, weeks have passed from when Cersei destroyed the Sept to when Bran has made it to The Wall.  More than likely months have gone by.

 

We don't know the the exact time Bran was at the tree with BR and when Cersei blew up the Sept.  You as a viewer are assuming the timeline is linear on the show, but I think it's reasonable to suggest that until this season, events have been happening at different times in no relation to each other.

[WalkinDude]

4 hours ago, Super Mario said:

 

I see no reason why Bran wouldn’t be able to see into the future. Dany has, I think Jon has, the Hound has, Maggi the Frog has, along with all the red priests and priestesses. Granted those visions have at times been misinterpreted or misunderstood, but still, the visions were there. Given that Bran is a sort of ‘next level’ seer, his understanding is likely to be much more reliable.

If you want to be technical, we know Dany didn't see the future.  What sigil is on the window in throne room when Dany comes to it?  What sigil is on the window in the throne room now?  The visions of the red priests are anything but accurate.  Jojen is the only character we can say with any certainty has seen the future on the show.  But his vision was limited.  If Bran can see anything in the future, the entire war for the dawn is stupid.  Bran will know every move the Night King makes and can counter it.  Or better yet, just have Dany and Jon fly to his location and roast him and pelt him with dragon glass.  Setup some kind of ambush.

[Styl7]

"Only one in a thousand is born a skinchanger and only one skinchanger in a thousand is born a greenseer."

Greenseer were leaders of the Children of forest...

Bran is special, and he is powerful.. But his kind of magic (of what we know know at least) is more of knowledge wisdom and controlling the creatures of natures.. Maybe even dragon?

[Samwell_Tarly]

10 minutes ago, Lurid Jester said:

Bloodraven arguably had the same powers and abilities as bran does now. At least to the extent of seeing the future etc.  as far as we've seen he managed to get Bran north, and... what?

You've just said Bran cant do crap... and the 3ER was more powerful.......... 

10 minutes ago, Lurid Jester said:

His attempts to teach Bran were undone because he had to sleep and Bran did something stupid.  

Doesnt explain why 3ER is more powerful that Bran

10 minutes ago, Lurid Jester said:

So if Bloodraven had such a big blind spot that he couldn't foresee a child, with a history of not doing what he's told, not doing what he was told then how many blind spots could Bran have. 

I dont get the context or reason behind this point.....

10 minutes ago, Lurid Jester said:

Bran. Who had all of ten years to build his life experiences before becoming the 3ER while BR had a very active adult life before going north. 

Dont think anything can experience you for what the 3ER holds. Granted the old 3ER has countless years to process and adapt. So in terms of experience at doing the job then yes i agree.

10 minutes ago, Lurid Jester said:

Bran is powerful for sure, but it's a power of influence and nudges as opposed to direct action.  At least as far as we've seen so far. 

As was the 3ER, infact the power of influence will be greater in Bran than the 3ER.

10 minutes ago, Lurid Jester said:

As far as direct action goes... birthing a shadow assassin and raising the dead seems more powerful. 

Yes raising the dead does seem more powerful, 

10 minutes ago, Lurid Jester said:

I do admit that we don't know the full extent of Bran's abilities.  We also don't know what limits to those abilities might be. 

I do hope we do see what he is fully capable off, and not some half arsed visions to incriminate people. As you say more direct action. I like to be optimistic about the situation :-)

[Morgana Lannister]

11 hours ago, Ranger Kragin said:

Consider it this way: This is a game of chess and he's at least 10 moves ahead of anyone else. He's the game master now.

I expect LF will try to exploit his knowledge, but killing him? Unlikely. Bran may have 10 witnesses around him by the time LF decides to make his move.

There, LF puzzles me at present but my views are on the dagger post lol  LF may be trying to see just how much Bran sees but he is playing with fire for sure! (LF) imho - feel free to see the thread in this chapter re the dagger for my opinions....

[Samwell_Tarly]

11 minutes ago, WalkinDude said:

How do you know that was the future?  The show has been horrible with time lines.  If we assume (based on Jon being at Dragonstone while Bran is at Winterfell) that the timelines of episodes are now synced, the Sept of Baelor being blown up could have happened weeks or months earlier.

The sept of baelor was blew up in ep10, this vision happened in ep 6. So your now assuming we are not watching episodes in order to confuse and are random, so D&D are just mixing it up. Dont be so stupid!

Time lines are quite irrelavant now to be fair so I wouldnt get to caught up on them. Please re re re read this, ive explained why how and where the future visions were seen!

 

11 minutes ago, WalkinDude said:

This shows that at a minimum, weeks have passed from when Cersei destroyed the Sept to when Bran has made it to The Wall.  More than likely months have gone by.

We don't know the the exact time Bran was at the tree with BR and when Cersei blew up the Sept.  You as a viewer are assuming the timeline is linear on the show, but I think it's reasonable to suggest that until this season, events have been happening at different times in no relation to each other.

This is plain fucking stupid, things go in chronological order unless D&D have just thought fuck it lets show them episode 1 as episode 6. Things go in order but not necessarily in a certain given time that we would expect etc.

[Lurid Jester]

24 minutes ago, Samwell_Tarly said:

The sept of baelor was blew up in ep10, this vision happened in ep 6. So your now assuming we are not watching episodes in order to confuse and are random, so D&D are just mixing it up. Dont be so stupid!

This is plain fucking stupid, things go in chronological order unless D&D have just thought fuck it lets show them episode 1 as episode 6. Things go in order but not necessarily in a certain given time that we would expect etc.

Can you please disagree with someone without being rude and insulting to them?  I'm beginning to think you care more about the Internet dunks and feeling like the smartest person in the room. 

Thanks. 

[Samwell_Tarly]

1 minute ago, Lurid Jester said:

Can you please disagree with someone without being rude and insulting to them?  I'm beginning to think you care more about the Internet dunks and feeling like the smartest person in the room. 

Thanks. 

So your telling me that doesnt sound moronic???

[WalkinDude]

30 minutes ago, Samwell_Tarly said:

So your telling me that doesnt sound moronic???

I guess you're not a book reader?  Books 4 and 5 weren't linear. As the show is based off them, it stands to reason that Bran leaving the cave didn't happen the same time Jon and Sansa were roaming the north for allies. Or do you think it took Bran and Meera months to leave the cave to get to Castle Black. 

 

You have nothing to base your opinion on other than Bran saw the sept blow up. You don't know what day Bran had his vision and when Cersei blew up the Sept. But let's play your game. 

What episode did Sam see the white ravens leave the citadel?  When did they arrive in Winterfell?  So in your mind did Sam arrive at the citadel the same day Jon was declared king in the north?  I guess the Manderlys and Glovers were camped a mile down the road  waiting to meet with the victors.

 

Using D&D's piss poor portal narrative where armies cross continents in minutes isn't a solid argument. 

[The Sunland Lord]

He can become Brandon The Blackmailer/ Brandon the Extortioner.

[Samwell_Tarly]

5 minutes ago, WalkinDude said:

I guess you're not a book reader?  Books 4 and 5 weren't linear. As the show is based off them, it stands to reason that Bran leaving the cave didn't happen the same time Jon and Sansa were roaming the north for allies. Or do you think it took Bran and Meera months to leave the cave to get to Castle Black. 

 

You have nothing to base your opinion on other than Bran saw the sept blow up. You don't know what day Bran had his vision and when Cersei blew up the Sept. But let's play your game. 

What episode did Sam see the white ravens leave the citadel?

We dont see any leave the Citadel lol

5 minutes ago, WalkinDude said:

When did they arrive in Winterfell?

Season 6 Ep 10

5 minutes ago, WalkinDude said:

So in your mind did Sam arrive at the citadel the same day Jon was declared king in the north?

Yeah whats matter with that??

5 minutes ago, WalkinDude said:

I guess the Manderlys and Glovers were camped a mile down the road  waiting to meet with the victors

Plausible

5 minutes ago, WalkinDude said:

Using D&D's piss poor portal narrative where armies cross continents in minutes isn't a solid argument. 

If anything I didnt say I said time lines of distance i.e logistics dont mean anything now. 

So your assuming things do not follow a chronological pattern? So what happens in a episode say 6 could have happened after ep 10????

[WalkinDude]

28 minutes ago, Samwell_Tarly said:

We dont see any leave the Citadel lol

 

Did you miss this or are you just being pedantic because they left a building other than the Citadel in Old Town (The Hightower)?  As Sam and Gilly look at Old Town from the coast, you can see the White Ravens being released in mass.

 

Once you accept the Ravens leave Old Town as Sam arrives in Old town, and the White Raven landed in Winterfell before Jon is declared King In The North, you have to accept that the events aren't happening concurrently.  And before you try to claim they were seagulls, the sounds of the birds are the sounds of ravens, not seagulls.  Feel free to compare the two.

 

So please, don't call me a moron when you don't even remember scenes from the show.

[SerJeremiahLouistark]

13 hours ago, Anarres said:

How is Bran powerful? He's a teen in a wheelchair that has visions. I suppose we'll have to see what he does with his knowledge and if other characters value it appropriately before he can be said to have any real influence.

Letting on to Littlefinger that 'he knows things' struck me as a rather dangerous thing to do, too.

Knowledge is power 

[Samwell_Tarly]

2 minutes ago, WalkinDude said:

Did you miss this or are you just being pedantic because they left a building other than the Citadel in Old Town?  As Sam and Gilly look at Old Town from the coast, you can see the White Ravens being released in mass.

You got me.... now answer the rest of my questions please

[SerJeremiahLouistark]

Time is really fucked in this series.  They do a poor job of explaining how much time goes by between episodes, sequences etc.  

[WalkinDude]

2 hours ago, Samwell_Tarly said:

We dont see any leave the Citadel lol

Season 6 Ep 10

Yeah whats matter with that??

Plausible

If anything I didnt say I said time lines of distance i.e logistics dont mean anything now. 

So your assuming things do not follow a chronological pattern? So what happens in a episode say 6 could have happened after ep 10????

The first 3 of your questions are answered by showing events that appear on screen aren't chronologically in order.  Sansa sees the raven in winterfell before Sam makes it to Old Town.  This alone proves my point that the show until this point and through much of season 4-6 wasn't in chronological order - just like books 4-5 weren't.

I think if far more likely that the Manderlys and Glovers came to Winterfell weeks/months after the Battle of the Bastards to pay fealty.  The show can skip travel time, but the characters themselves can not.  White Harbor is at minimum a couple weeks from Winterfell.  And while the Vale Armies can somehow magically ride on winterfell without a scout being aware of their presence, Manderly and Glover armies being camped and not being know is just too much suspension of disbelief for me to handle.  

In the time between Sansa and Jon trying to find an Army, Brienne was able to travel to River Run and meet Jamie.  Jamie then traveled from River Run to King's Landing shortly after Cersei blew up the Sept.  How many months did it take for Jamie to go from River Run to King's Landing?  The show isn't chronologically perfect, and jumps around to keep the story flowing.

You want to believe Bran can see the future in the same detail he can see the past.  There is nothing in the book or show to support this.  Dany saw the Red Keep in her vision on the show.  But she also saw Drogo and Rhaego.  Can she see into the afterlife too or do we accept that the Warlocks were influencing what she saw?

Jojen saw his own death.  Maggie could see broad strokes.  No one can see the future in the detail Bran saw the Tower of Joy.  Bran was right outside the wall at the end of season 6.  But we don't know when that was.  Only that it was after Ed had assumed control from Jon and based on an acceptable travel time from Castle Black to Winterfell, probably after the Battle of the Bastards.  We know the Northern timeline because enough events have occured there.  But as I said earlier, Arya learns through Hot Pie that Cersei blew up the Sept  in the same episode Bran returns to Winterfell.  That means that weeks/months have occurred since Cersei destroyed the Sept of Baelor and word traveled to the inn.  Hot Pie also knows that Jon has already taken over Winterfell, again showing that the battle happened weeks/months earlier.  That time disparity certainly covers enough time for Bran to have ridden with Benjen to Castle Black and then on to Winterfell.  This is certainly a more simple solution than "Bran can see the future".