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Iron Mother

Looking Ahead: Littlefinger & Varys

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4 hours ago, Greywater-Watch said:

You really believe D&D care about the Vale or who leads it or Sweet Robin anymore? The Vale and its army are probably written off into non-existence as much as Dorne, The Stormlands, etc.

No.  If I'm right, The Vale is encamped all around Winterfell currently.  That's why Lord Royce is still in Winterfell, we saw in 2 episodes ago Sansa advised him to get the breastplate guy to use leather because of the cold.  Royce would not be there if the Vale was not there.

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3 hours ago, lakin1013 said:

If something is going to happen to Varys, please don't let it happen before we learn who owned the 'voice' on the day he was cut.  Both the show and the book tell us his memory is a voice of a 'priest' who threw his parts into the flame.  We are left to think he would recognize it again.  Who was it?

I don't think it was a voice of a priest. In the show Varys had captured the priest that cut him. 

I've also been intrigued by that since I read it in the books. Also it would be very nice to know what exactly that voice said.

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2 hours ago, ImNoSer said:

If they were going to get all the smallest details right it would take the show 30 seasons, and the actors would be old men by the time they finished the show. I think D&D did a decent job with the show aside from a few episodes that I thought shouldve been written differently. Certain moments i wish were more like the books, and other things im glad they didnt do it just like the books, because it just wouldnt make sense for TV (like tyrions nose for example)

are you replying to the right post?

 

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On ‎11‎/‎08‎/‎2017 at 8:47 PM, Iron Mother said:

How does Arya do someone's VOICE tho?

I can see how people don't buy into the show because of things like that.  At least the Mission: Impossible movies have the bio-electric tape over the voice area when impersonating.

When Jaquen killed at Harrenhaal, I can't remember if he fake someone's voice.  He was silent.

You never know who the Faceless Men are and they definitely infiltrate with people who knew the original victim.  So it's pretty obvious that the glamour, or whatever it is, definitely works so that the whole illusion is real.

And no offence, but it's a fantasy show.  Direwolves, Undead, Dragons.  And yet I read people complaining about "unrealistic" fight sequences or magic.  Either take it all for what it is, or take none of it all.

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My personal view is that both characters are way too over powered in the books but the show has gone too far the other way and made them politically impotent.

Ultimately other than causing chaos that leads to the weakening of Westeros I don't think either of them actually matter that much in the grand scheme of things, book or show.

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2 hours ago, Ser Gareth said:

My personal view is that both characters are way too over powered in the books but the show has gone too far the other way and made them politically impotent.

Ultimately other than causing chaos that leads to the weakening of Westeros I don't think either of them actually matter that much in the grand scheme of things, book or show.

I heard something interesting, someone said LF and Varys were totally "political intrique" and now there is no more "political intrigue".  That pretty much explains it.  LF and Varys, everything they are is through political intrigue... they aren't warriors, or even really advisors.  Cersei would be the same if she were not queen.  She only worked through political intrigue.  She exists now only because she is in charge of something huge.What would Tyrion be right now if he weren't hand of Daenerys?  Not much.  So that explained it for me.  And unfortunately I'm now accepting LF and Varys must surely "go".

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16 hours ago, Iron Mother said:

No.  If I'm right, The Vale is encamped all around Winterfell currently.  That's why Lord Royce is still in Winterfell, we saw in 2 episodes ago Sansa advised him to get the breastplate guy to use leather because of the cold.  Royce would not be there if the Vale was not there.

You probably didn't get me right. It is not the sporadic appearance of Ser Royce at Winterfells council which convinces me that the Vale had mantained a sound existence in the show. What about those some hundred horsed soldiers, are they not eating off the food (horses and men) off Winterfell, while food is scarce there. The Vale is - besides Dorne the only part of the Seven Kingdoms until now spared from ware - richer in food provisions than any other region in the Seven Kingdoms. Is there any Food Transport from the Vale to Wnterfell, what do they Need the Vales army for? Where are the foot soldiers of the Vale? Who leads and represents the Vale (Sweetrobin, Lord Royce or Littlefinger)? What about the bad blood between Lord Royce and Littlefinger (remember back in Season 6)?

Gulltown is - apart from Kings Landing - the closest harbour to Dragonstone. What is the relation between The Vale and Dany; if the Vale follows Jon Snow's rule, well: see above.

Etc. etc.

That is why I think the Vale has been written off (or forgotten) in the Show as much as the Stormlands, Dorne (as a region with a still existing huge army), well, and as the Riverlands: R.I.P Edmure Tully - sorry, during her two weeks stay at the Twins in disguise of Walder Frey, Arya had no time to visit you in the dungeon and later forgot totally about your existence..

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3 minutes ago, Greywater-Watch said:

You probably didn't get me right. It is not the sporadic appearance of Ser Royce at Winterfells council which convinces me that the Vale had mantained a sound existence in the show. What about those some hundred horsed soldiers, are they not eating off the food (horses and men) off Winterfell, while food is scarce there. The Vale is - besides Dorne the only part of the Seven Kingdoms until now spared from ware - richer in food provisions than any other region in the Seven Kingdoms. Is there any Food Transport from the Vale to Wnterfell, what do they Need the Vales army for? Where are the foot soldiers of the Vale? Who leads and represents the Vale (Sweetrobin, Lord Royce or Littlefinger)? What about the bad blood between Lord Royce and Littlefinger (remember back in Season 6)?

Gulltown is - apart from Kings Landing - the closest harbour to Dragonstone. What is the relation between The Vale and Dany; if the Vale follows Jon Snow's rule, well: see above.

Etc. etc.

That is why I think the Vale has been written off (or forgotten) in the Show as much as the Stormlands, Dorne (as a region with a still existing huge army), well, and as the Riverlands: R.I.P Edmure Tully - sorry, during her two weeks stay at the Twins in disguise of Walder Frey, Arya had no time to visit you in the dungeon and later forgot totally about your existence..

Your paragraphs only underscore how out-of-control the show is now with a face off between Cersei and Deanerys. 

This is NOT Game of Thrones anymore.  I'm not sure what it is. 

Zombies & Dragons?

Twilight Of Magicland?

Winter V Summer?

Queen Of Westeros?

CastleForge: Dawn Of Woman?

Valyrian Steel - Northern Abomination?

Blood Of The Dragon? (That would be intersting actually)

House Targaryen & The Foreign Invasion?

Cersei And Daenerys: The Fate Westeros?

The Last Targaryen?

House Lannister - The Usurper?

Last Queen Standing? (have fun with that one! lol)

How do any of those names sound for this new show?

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I am thankful to all the gods that Littlefinger is actually having some tricky plots again.  If this is all I can get, I will take it. 

That part was one of the more titillating portions of episode 5!!

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I really wished that back in season 6 when the High Priestess Kinvara told Varys that if he is Queen's Daenerys true friend he has nothing to fear from her, was a hint that he is conspiring behind Dany's back..(I also hoped to see Aegon Targaryen-or FAegon- but it seems like there is another Aegon in our story...).

Varys is doing nothing.. We haven't even see him saying anything important from his little birds..

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I believe there just isn't room/time for Varys and LF on this show anymore.  They are schemers, guys who come up with these complicated master plans that have numerous contingencies and alterations.  The show simply does not have time for that anymore.  They also don't have GRRM's source material to work off anymore.  

That's why LF is doing...whatever he's been doing in Winterfell.  Which is more than you can say for Varys, who besides for his nice monologue in episode 2 of this season and his death prophecy in episode 3 seemingly has no role at all in Dany's council.  

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On 9-8-2017 at 8:12 PM, Nerevanin said:

I expect Varys to survive the story.

 

When it comes to LF I hope that he makes it to Season 8. I'd love him to survive too but I fear that it won't happen. So I hope that he will do his final master move and that then his death will be epic and not some stupid Walder-like murder.

I hope so too but unfortunately the show seems to be going in a different direction with Varys, given Mel's prediction.

I also think LF will go down before the end of the story. 

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On 8/9/2017 at 5:29 PM, anjulibai said:

I think this is a consequence of cutting the season so short. If they stretch things out, they could include more of their machinations. This season is just too short to do justice to all of the show's characters. 

Agreed, and saddened by this fact.  I haven't been able to speculate on how Varys ends up, but I have some ideas about LF.  

 I feel like his game with Sansa and Arya is about to blow up on him. I still don't quite know why he's doing it other than "chaos", but I don't subscribe to the theory he loves Sansa. And even if he thinks he does, he loves the game and the chaos more, and can't bloody well help himself.  I think though- with this Sansa-Arya story line there is an opportunity for the girls to come together at his expense.

Wait, wait! Hear me out! In a separate thread, someone reminded us that Sansa knows LF pushed Lyssa out the Moon Door. This knowledge is how Sansa is  currently able to keep him at bay, because she had this -amongst other info- dirt on him. One word to Royce, and Royce will cut the bitch (the bitch is LF in this scenario) and if Royce ever finds out LF gave Sansa to Bolton, same thing. LF Deader than Dead. He's keeping Sansa close to make sure that does not happen, but getting rid of Sansa, based on these things, has to be his end game. 

Whose the only other person on earth who probably wants Sansa dead? Cersei. 

So LF creates chaos between Sansa and Arys, but it backfires through some deus ex machina, the girls unite against him, and Sansa spills he secrets to Royce (ALT: Sansa gets fed up with LF, tries to  go to Royce, LF intercepts and Arya has to save Sansa) . 

Losing the Vale and having to escape Winterfell, LF heads back to Cersei, with a BOATLOAD of intel on the King in the North. 

 

It's also possible he's a double agent for Cersei, although no one in history could out double agent Snape for true love, so that would be a bit pathetic. 

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16 minutes ago, Katleesi said:

 I feel like his game with Sansa and Arya is about to blow up on him. I still don't quite know why he's doing it other than "chaos", but I don't subscribe to the theory he loves Sansa. And even if he thinks he does, he loves the game and the chaos more, and can't bloody well help himself.

I think the last bit is the point of his character.

He really does love Sansa. He already really does love the game. And he can't help himself over either. Until recently, he could serve both motives at once—do things that created chaos that he could take advantage of in ways that both gave Sansa more power and tied her more closely to him.

After the Battle of the Bastards, he's been stuck. Everything he's tried to do to get Sansa and Jon at each other's throats has actually put her in danger, and pushed her away from himself. He's been working at cross-purposes to himself, and that's why he hasn't accomplished anything.

After Arya's arrival and Jon's departure, everything has changed. He can play them against each other to push Sansa into taking over the North in a coup and at the same abandoning her trust in her family so she has no one left but Littlefinger. He wins on every score, and he's back on track.

That's his last big push. And it's going to fail, not because he underestimated Arya, but because he underestimated Sansa. Which is a perfectly satisfying ending to his story. (Of course I don't trust the show to execute it in a perfectly satisfying way, but that's another story; I think at least their intentions are sound.)

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On 18. 8. 2017 at 5:23 PM, Eddard Scissorhands said:

I hope so too but unfortunately the show seems to be going in a different direction with Varys, given Mel's prediction.

I also think LF will go down before the end of the story. 

Well, Mel's prediction can be intepreted easily as "Varys will die in Westeros when he is 90". There is guarantee that the death will occur in, idk, the next 2 years. Why include the line then though? I know, I know. However, I'm not giving up on my predictions before I see Varys dead. :)

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