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chrisdaw

What Rhaegar believed, why he did what he did and was the way he was

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8 minutes ago, Damon_Tor said:


And she's so reliable.

In that regard? Sure. She also taught Dany that death can pay for life, did she not?

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2 minutes ago, Lord Varys said:

She also taught Dany that death can pay for life, did she not?

I don't see how that's relevant. Or even if that's true. What death paid for Beric Dondarion's life? Thoros of Myr was performing what he thought was a funeral rite, no sacrifice, and yet somehow, with no sacrifice of any kind, with zero expertise, he winds up with markedly better results than a woman who studied in Asshai, name-dropped Marwyn before the readers even knew who he was, and who sacrificed both a horse and a baby. And thoros was able to repeat the process on demand later. Again and again, with no further sacrifice. It doesn't add up.

I have a thread where I go more into this in my signature, but the short version:

  • Why did the author choose to tell us that Drogo did not follow MMD's wound-care instructions? Are we supposed to believe she poisoned him or not?
  • Why did the author choose to have Jorah Mormont lose consciousness during the birth?
  • Why did the author choose to have the "body" disposed of off-page?
  • Why not kill Rhaego during childbirth? She was already going to be the midwife. It could have appeared entirely natural.
  • The Dothraki hate magic enough that they tried to stop it. Why take the risk they would have succeeded?
  • Why did she warn Daenerys not to ask her to perform the ritual? Why was the magic Daenery's idea in the first place?
  • Why tell Daenerys not to come into the tent?
  • Where did the graveworms (maggots?) come from? Can magic spontaneously generate life in ASoIaF?

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8 hours ago, Lost Melnibonean said:

The Mad King's daughter? 

Her willingness to make the sacrifice isn't really about her madness. That's part of her arc but she's done the mad queen by this stage and has self reflected and let the throne go, she's now all about just saving the world. She's not Aerys, Mel, Aerion or even Rhaegar at that point, because she's done it before, she knows it works (and will have seen Euron do it too) and generally how to do it, she's not just interpreting vague prophecies and dreams or visions. And she'll have good reason to believe that the fate of the world really does depend on it, she'll have seen the enemy and they'll be through the realm's defences.

It is about her saviour complex, her unwillingness to sit on her hands while bad things happen around her. From the whole slave trade she feels compelled to end, the contagious sick she can't help but embrace to those she saved from the Khalasar, she is the interventionist.

To Dany it is her character and her life, to Jon it is his duty.

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15 hours ago, chrisdaw said:

Yeah that Dany.

This one.

And this one.

This same one.

 

And that's supposed to point to Dany sacrificing her own child, how? You've just given me three passages that prove the opposite, that she is distraught at children dying and at the price of peace, and that she resolves to never to abandon her "children" again at the end of ADWD.

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OK, We know that Rhaegar was obsessed with prophecy, that he believed that either he or his son was the Prince that was Promised, but do we have any evidence that he was aware of an existential threat to the realm ( the White Walkers)?  People tend to assume that Rhaegar wanted to save the world, but maybe his ultimate objective was just restoring the Targaryen dynasty to its former glory--same thing all the Targaryens have been trying to do since the dragons died out.

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2 minutes ago, Lady bonehead said:

OK, We know that Rhaegar was obsessed with prophecy, that he believed that either he or his son was the Prince that was Promised, but do we have any evidence that he was aware of an existential threat to the realm ( the White Walkers)?  People tend to assume that Rhaegar wanted to save the world, but maybe his ultimate objective was just restoring the Targaryen dynasty to its former glory--same thing all the Targaryens have been trying to do since the dragons died out.

Look at the prophecies he was working off. Even the partial prophecies we have talk about saving the world.

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1 hour ago, bent branch said:

Look at the prophecies he was working off. Even the partial prophecies we have talk about saving the world.

All right, but save the world from what? Did Rhaegar have any idea of the nature of the menace? And what made him think that the prophecies were scheduled to come true just now? 

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I think he had some idea, he was in touch with Aemon and Aemon seemed to have some idea. As far as the timing goes, there may have been something in what the Woods Witch said that made them think it was sooner rather than later.

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7 hours ago, Lady bonehead said:

All right, but save the world from what? Did Rhaegar have any idea of the nature of the menace? And what made him think that the prophecies were scheduled to come true just now? 

The first quote in the OP, it is Aemon that brings up the war for the dawn.

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8 hours ago, Lady bonehead said:

OK, We know that Rhaegar was obsessed with prophecy, that he believed that either he or his son was the Prince that was Promised, but do we have any evidence that he was aware of an existential threat to the realm ( the White Walkers)?  People tend to assume that Rhaegar wanted to save the world, but maybe his ultimate objective was just restoring the Targaryen dynasty to its former glory--same thing all the Targaryens have been trying to do since the dragons died out.

Actually, there is proof that Rhaegar wasn't as obsessed with prophecies as we first think of him to be. We only have proof that Rhaegar was into the prophecy of TPTWP, and nothing other than this. Saving the world is a whole other idea, that we don't have proof of Rhaegar believing in at all. Adding this, Rhaegar wouldn't have believed Lyanna was important to the prophecy either - wouldn't it be better if Rhaegar fulfilled the prophecy unknowingly? He spend his life chasing the prophecy and trying to make it come true, but he unknowingly completes it by falling in love with a woman that was forbidden to him. 

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