Jump to content
Lost Melnibonean

The House of the Undying Ones

Recommended Posts

The House of the Undying Ones in Daenerys IV, Clash 48 is one of the trippiest scenes in A Song of Ice and Fire. One of the most curious aspects of it is the number three, which is echoed throughout the scene. By my reckoning, she even turns at least 360 degrees three times while moving through the preternatural house. But most intriguing, is the sequence of visions in sets of threes and multiples of three. 

The first vision Daenerys sees in the House of the Undying Ones, of the beautiful woman sprawled naked on the floor, is a foreshadowing for the reader of what is to come in the House of the Undying chapter and a clue as to what is really happening. The Undying are trying to trap Daenerys so that they can draw upon her power. 

Quote

"Blue lips speak only lies, isnt that what Xaro told you? Why do you care what the warlocks whispered? All they wanted was to suck the life from you, you know that now."

Daenerys V, Clash 63

They set before her three visions to lure her in: 1) the Red Wedding, a vision of war-torn Westeros seeking a just ruler; 2) her childhood room, the lemon tree, and Willem Darry, a vision of her peaceful early childhood (even if there is something rotten about that lemon tree in Braavos); and 3) Pyat Pree, a vision of a guide willing to show her the way.

In addition to 1) the first vision of the beautiful woman sprawled naked on the floor, Daenerys glimpses two other visions that are not designed to trap her but seem more designed by The George to develop our understanding of what is going on in the story: 2) a vision of Aerys's plan to burn King's Landing; and 3) a vision of Rhaegar wrestling with the prince-that-was-promised prophecy.

Daenerys finally comes upon the Undying...

Quote

. . . mother of dragons . . . came a voice, part whisper and part moan . . . . dragons . . . dragons . . . dragons . . . other voices echoed in the gloom

In case you're counting, that's three dragons.

Quote

Dany listened to the silence. None of them are breathing, and they do not move, and those eyes see nothing. Could it be that the Undying Ones were dead?

Her answer was a whisper as thin as a mouse's whisker. . . . we live . . . live . . . live . . . it sounded. Myriad other voices whispered echoes . . . . And know . . . know . . . know . . . know . . .

That's three lives, one know, and three echoes of the know.

Quote

"I have come for the gift of truth," Dany said. "In the long hall, the things I saw . . . were they true visions, or lies? Past things, or things to come? What did they mean?"

. . . the shape of shadows . . . morrows not yet made . . . drink from the cup of ice . . . drink from the cup of fire . . .

. . . mother of dragons . . . child of three . . .

Note that Daenerys was the mother of three dragons.

Quote

"Three?" She did not understand.

. . . three heads has the dragon . . . the ghost chorus yammered inside her skull with never a lip moving, never a breath stirring the still blue air. . . . mother of dragons . . . child of storm . . . The whispers became a swirling song. . . . three fires must you light . . . one for life and one for death and one to love . . . Her own heart was beating in unison to the one that floated before her, blue and corrupt . . . three mounts must you ride . . . one to bed and one to dread and one to love . . . The voices were growing louder, she realized, and it seemed her heart was slowing, and even her breath. . . . three treasons will you know . . . once for blood and once for gold and once for love . . .

So, three fires, three mounts, and three treasons, the last of each for love. That's nine fires, mounts, and treasons. The fire Daenerys must light for life was surely Drogo's funeral pyre. The fire Daenerys must light for death will unite the Dothraki into a single khalasar and ride with her to the ends of the earth. The fire Daenerys must light to love will be her funeral pyre after she dies in childbirth. 

The mount Daenerys must ride to bed was her silver, which she rode to her bedding by the darkling stream beneath a sea of stars. The mount Daenerys must ride to dread is her dragon, Drogo, the Black Dread, Balerion, come again. The mount Daenerys must ride to love will be the smoky stallion Daenerys will ride to join her sun-and-stars in the Night Lands. 

The treason for blood Daenerys will know will be committed by Illyrio, who will betray her for the blood of the Blackfyre. The treason for gold Daenerys will know will be committed by Tyrion, who will betray her for all the gold of Casterly Rock. The treason for love Daenerys will know will be committed by Aegon, who will betray her for love of Arianne. 

Quote

"I don't . . ." Her voice was no more than a whisper, almost as faint as theirs. What was happening to her? "I don't understand," she said, more loudly. Why was it so hard to talk here? "Help me. Show me."

. . . help her . . . the whispers mocked. . . . show her . . .

Then phantoms shivered through the murk, images in indigo. Viserys screamed as the molten gold ran down his cheeks and filled his mouth. A tall lord with copper skin and silver-gold hair stood beneath the banner of a fiery stallion, a burning city behind him. Rubies flew like drops of blood from the chest of a dying prince, and he sank to his knees in the water and with his last breath murmured a womans name. . . . mother of dragons, daughter of death . . . Glowing like sunset, a red sword was raised in the hand of a blue-eyed king who cast no shadow. A cloth dragon swayed on poles amidst a cheering crowd. From a smoking tower, a great stone beast took wing, breathing shadow fire. . . . mother of dragons, slayer of lies . . . Her silver was trotting through the grass, to a darkling stream beneath a sea of stars. A corpse stood at the prow of a ship, eyes bright in his dead face, grey lips smiling sadly. A blue flower grew from a chink in a wall of ice, and filled the air with sweetness. . . . mother of dragons, bride of fire . . .

So, after Daenerys asks for help to understand these nine fires, mounts, and treasons, she sees nine more visions grouped into three sets of three. 

Viserys was identified in the first of these nine visions. The tall lord with the copper skin and silver gold hair was the unfulfilled promise of her stillborn son Rhaego, the babe she sacrificed to wake The Dragon. The dying prince was obviously Rhaegar. This triplet of visions is followed by "mother of dragons." And these three visions were front and center when Daenerys sacrificed her son to wake The Dragon. 

The blue-eyed king is Stannis. The cloth dragon, or mummer's dragon, as Daenerys later describes the vision, is Aegon, a descendant of Daemon Blackfyre. The great stone beast is Euron. This triplet of visions is followed by "slayer of lies." And these three visions are of claimants to the Iron Throne. 

The darkling stream is a vision of her bedding following her wedding to Drogo. The corpse standing at the prow of a ship is Daario. The blue flower is Jon Snow. This triplet of visions is followed by "bride of fire." I submit that these three visions represent two men Daenerys has loved: her son and stars and Daario, but will there be time for her to love Jon? 

As to the mother of dragons, daughter of death . . . mother of dragons, slayer of lies . . . and mother of dragons, bride of fire . . . sequence, recall when Daenerys walked into the pyre, between the hatching of the second and third eggs, as she heard Jorah calling to her...

Quote

No, she wanted to shout to him, no, my good knight, do not fear for me. The fire is mine. I am Daenerys Stormborn, daughter of dragons, bride of dragons, mother of dragons, dont you see? Dont you SEE? With a belch of flame and smoke that reached thirty feet into the sky, the pyre collapsed and came down around her. Unafraid, Dany stepped forward into the firestorm, calling to her children.

Daenerys X, Game 72

The only thing missing from the pyre scene is slayer of lies. But that seems understandable, no? 

Daenerys then sees six more visions in the House of the Undying Ones...

Quote

Faster and faster the visions came, one after the other, until it seemed as if the very air had come alive. Shadows whirled and danced inside a tent, boneless and terrible. A little girl ran barefoot toward a big house with a red door. Mirri Maz Duur shrieked in the flames, a dragon bursting from her brow. Behind a silver horse the bloody corpse of a naked man bounced and dragged. A white lion ran through grass taller than a man. Beneath the Mother of Mountains, a line of naked crones crept from a great lake and knelt shivering before her, their grey heads bowed.

The last six visions before the final one to which she succumbs represent: 1) Trying to save Drogo upon whom she was nearly totally dependent; 2) her longing for the sheltered days of her early childhood; 3) her dragons hatching; 4) the punishment exacted on the wine seller, the man sent by the usurper to kill her and her unborn son, the action that convinced Drogo to begin preparations for an invasion of the Seven Kingdoms; 5) a prized beast hunted by Dothraki; and 6) the wise women of the Dothraki paying her homage.

The first two of these six visions show Daenerys's early dependence on others. The second two show her dragons hatching, and Daenerys beginning to act the way the blood of dragon would be expected to act. The third two show what appears to be happening at the end of Dance, where Jhaqo finds her in the Dothraki Sea (we can associate Daenerys with the white lion since she wears the pelt of the hrakkar), and perhaps, what will happen in Winds, when Daenerys, the mother of dragons, and Drogon, the stallion who mounts the world, unite the the Dothraki into a single khalasar. 

But then she finally succumbs to one last vision...

Quote

Ten thousand slaves lifted bloodstained hands as she raced by on her silver, riding like the wind. Mother! they cried. Mother, mother! They were reaching for her, touching her, tugging at her cloak, the hem of her skirt, her foot, her leg, her breast. They wanted her, needed her, the fire, the life, and Dany gasped and opened her arms to give herself to them . . .

And the Undying Ones must be thinking that have the honeycomb, but for the bee...

Quote

But then black wings buffeted her round the head, and a scream of fury cut the indigo air, and suddenly the visions were gone, ripped away, and Dany's gasp turned to horror. The Undying were all around her, blue and cold, whispering as they reached for her, pulling, stroking, tugging at her clothes, touching her with their dry cold hands, twining their fingers through her hair. All the strength had left her limbs. She could not move. Even her heart had ceased to beat. She felt a hand on her bare breast, twisting her nipple. Teeth found the soft skin of her throat. A mouth descended on one eye, licking, sucking, biting . . .

Then indigo turned to orange, and whispers turned to screams. Her heart was pounding, racing, the hands and mouths were gone, heat washed over her skin, and Dany blinked at a sudden glare. Perched above her, the dragon spread his wings and tore at the terrible dark heart, ripping the rotten flesh to ribbons, and when his head snapped forward, fire flew from his open jaws, bright and hot. She could hear the shrieks of the Undying as they burned, their high thin papery voices crying out in tongues long dead. Their flesh was crumbling parchment, their bones dry wood soaked in tallow. They danced as the flames consumed them; they staggered and writhed and spun and raised blazing hands on high, their fingers bright as torches.

Dany pushed herself to her feet and bulled through them. They were light as air, no more than husks, and they fell at a touch. The whole room was ablaze by the time she reached the door. "Drogon," she called, and he flew to her through the fire.

As Drogon comes to her rescue. This is a foreshadowing of what happens in Meereen. The soft mewling girl can't abandon her adopted children in Meereen, so Drogon has to come and save his mother. 

Quote

"Daenerys. Remember the Undying. Remember who you are."

Daenery II, Dance 11

Edited by Lost Melnibonean

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
40 minutes ago, Lost Melnibonean said:

As Drogon comes to her rescue. This is a foreshadowing of what happens in Meereen. The soft mewling girl can't abandon her adopted children in Meereen, so Drogon has to come and save his mother.

In the Pit? Seemed to me she was rescuing him.

Otherwise, very neat. Almost too neat? It looks like a few visions can have a double meaning, and if a few can, why not all?

For example, the ten thousand slaves. Why do they have blood-stained hands? the vast majority are purely victims. I suspect this casts forward to the Others and the wights they hold in thrall.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 minutes ago, Springwatch said:

In the Pit? Seemed to me she was rescuing him.

Otherwise, very neat. Almost too neat? It looks like a few visions can have a double meaning, and if a few can, why not all?

For example, the ten thousand slaves. Why do they have blood-stained hands? the vast majority are purely victims. I suspect this casts forward to the Others and the wights they hold in thrall.

She inspired the slaves to revolt. The stains are hers, no? 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 minute ago, Lost Melnibonean said:

She inspired the slaves to revolt. The stains are hers, no? 

Most of the slaves would be very inadequate fighters, even in a revolt situation - much worse than the levies that are so despised in Westeros. Ten thousand with blood-stained hands? seems wrong.

But yeah, the stains should be hers.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
9 minutes ago, Springwatch said:

Most of the slaves would be very inadequate fighters, even in a revolt situation - much worse than the levies that are so despised in Westeros. Ten thousand with blood-stained hands? seems wrong.

But yeah, the stains should be hers.

The vision would be less poetic, I think, if only the leaders, or the meanest of the bunch had bloodstained hands. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
4 minutes ago, Lost Melnibonean said:

The vision would be less poetic, I think, if only the leaders, or the meanest of the bunch had bloodstained hands. 

Oh yes, and I'm not going to reject the 'obvious' interpretation on a technicality. But I always want more. :)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I believe this has more to it:

"I have come for the gift of truth," Dany said. "In the long hall, the things I saw . . . were they true visions, or lies? Past things, or things to come? What did they mean?"

. . . the shape of shadows . . . morrows not yet made . . . drink from the cup of ice . . . drink from the cup of fire . . .

. . . mother of dragons . . . child of three . . .

three? She did not understand.

 

In the long hall Dany sees:

1) woman molested by sevitors

2) feast of corpses

3) house with the red door

4) King of ashes

5) The Prince and his Song

6) Pree, then Magnificent Undying, then the heart room

...she asks:

1) true visions?

2) lies?

3) past things?

4) things to come?

5) what did they mean?

6) three?

... the Unying answer:

1) shape of shadows

2) morrows not yet made

3) cup of ice 

4) cup of fire

5) mother of dragons

6) child of three

And my conclusions:

1) true vision, the servitors molesting the beautiful woman, this is the shape of the shadows, and I suspect it is the sevitors who run the House of the Undying and not the warlocks... this idea is reinforced by the three visions of the undying at the end.

2) lies, the feast of the dead, morrows not yet made... unlike most I do not believe this is the Red Wedding. First because that event has no bearing on Dany at all, and because there is no reason for Rob to look to her with appeal. Second, it is "silent appeal" and only one of the dire wolves we've encountered is explicitly and conspicuously silent, Ghost. I believe this is a vision of Jon, not Rob. Also, if Jon were to somehow make a miraculous recovery (tongue in cheek) from being Ceasered then his being among the dead would be a lie Dany slays him from... I mean saves him from!

3) past things, the house with the red door, drink from the cup of ice. I believe this vision of her one memory of a "home". I will try not to get to sidetracked with lemon tree theories, but let's say I believe there are significant discrepancies between her memories and the story of her childhood we've been told. The cup of ice being a reference to Starks and bitter exile, but also preservation of life.

4) things to come, King of Ashes, cup of fire. Things to come, but it's the Mad King? Seems like a good objection at first, but then I realized the vision isn't about him, it's about the plan to burn kings landing in a blaze of wildfire. Dany doesn't even recognize Aerys (she recognizes Rheagar who she's also never seen however) and there is every reason to believe the wildfire is still there and fire consumes.

5) what did they mean? mother of dragons... I believe Rheagar was looking at Dany when saying there must be one more, and that being he mother of dragons makes her the prince that was promised (though maybe not the only one). I believe that Rhaegar like Aemon and the other Targs dreamed of the return of dragons.

6) three? Child of three... She sees Pree devolve into a pale wormlike creature (like the root in Bloodraven's eye anyone?), the false vision of the Undying as magnificent kings and queens, then finally the heartroom. 

Taken with the first vision of the servitors, and the remarkable number of similarities between the house of the undying and Bloodraven's hollow hill (again trying not to get to sidetracked), I believe that the servitors are an Essos version of the children of the forrest, and are the ones running the show in the HotU.

 

And I didn't even get to the fun trinities yet...

Edited by LiveFirstDieLater

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 hours ago, Lost Melnibonean said:

So, after Daenerys asks for help to understand these nine fires, mounts, and treasons, she sees nine more visions grouped into three sets of three. 

But what order the fires, mounts and treasons are arranged amount these three sets of three isn't necessarily so straight forward...

3 hours ago, Lost Melnibonean said:

Viserys was identified in the first of these nine visions. The tall lord with the copper skin and silver gold hair was the unfulfilled promise of her stillborn son Rhaego, the babe she sacrificed to wake The Dragon. The dying prince was obviously Rhaegar. This triplet of visions is followed by "mother of dragons." And these three visions were front and center when Daenerys sacrificed her son to wake The Dragon. 

3 dead princes, and I would argue Dany is at least partially responsible for each death... of course I'm sure you'll object to my laying Rhaegar at Dany's feet, but since I believe the whole point of these visions is for her to literally remember who she is, the child of ice and fire, it shouldn't be that surprising since Rheagar died with a woman's name on his lips, Lyanna.

3 hours ago, Lost Melnibonean said:

The blue-eyed king is Stannis. The cloth dragon, or mummer's dragon, as Daenerys later describes the vision, is Aegon, a descendant of Daemon Blackfyre. The great stone beast is Euron. This triplet of visions is followed by "slayer of lies." And these three visions are of claimants to the Iron Throne. 

I'm not sure why Dany would see Stannis, or how he will be at all relevant to her. I would suggest that this might not be him, after all, what glows like sunset? Dawn. And who has blue eyes? The dead, and the Starks...

The banner could well be the mummer's dragon, faegon, but then again I'm not so sure Dany is who she appears to be... and doubly unsure why the common people would be chearing.

The great stone beast breathing shadow fire is of course a difficult one given how unclear the imagery is. I lean toward it being Tyrion myself, but it's all very speculative.

3 hours ago, Lost Melnibonean said:

The darkling stream is a vision of her bedding following her wedding to Drogo. The corpse standing at the prow of a ship is Daario. The blue flower is Jon Snow. This triplet of visions is followed by "bride of fire." I submit that these three visions represent two men Daenerys has loved: her son and stars and Daario, but will there be time for her to love Jon? 

The vision is of her silver... her grey horse with a white mane... Lyanna was famous for riding horses, stark colors are white and grey, and Dany, with little to no experience was jumping bonfires on her first ride.

Hmmm, a corpse with bright (blue?) eyes? Of course I first thought it was a greyjoy, then I thought it might be Arya wearing a man's face, now I'm not so sure it isn't someone come back from the dead...

And the blue rose growing from the wall of ice seems like another Lyanna reference... of course usually interpreted as Jon.

3 hours ago, Lost Melnibonean said:
Quote

Faster and faster the visions came, one after the other, until it seemed as if the very air had come alive. Shadows whirled and danced inside a tent, boneless and terrible. A little girl ran barefoot toward a big house with a red door. Mirri Maz Duur shrieked in the flames, a dragon bursting from her brow. Behind a silver horse the bloody corpse of a naked man bounced and dragged. A white lion ran through grass taller than a man. Beneath the Mother of Mountains, a line of naked crones crept from a great lake and knelt shivering before her, their grey heads bowed.

The last six visions before the final one to which she succumbs represent: 1) Trying to save Drogo upon whom she was nearly totally dependent; 2) her longing for the sheltered days of her early childhood; 3) her dragons hatching; 4) the punishment exacted on the wine seller, the man sent by the usurper to kill her and her unborn son, the action that convinced Drogo to begin preparations for an invasion of the Seven Kingdoms; 5) a prized beast hunted by Dothraki; and 6) the wise women of the Dothraki paying her homage.

The first two of these six visions show Daenerys's early dependence on others. The second two show her dragons hatching, and Daenerys beginning to act the way the blood of dragon would be expected to act. The third two show what appears to be happening at the end of Dance, where Jhaqo finds her in the Dothraki Sea (we can associate Daenerys with the white lion since she wears the pelt of the hrakkar), and perhaps, what will happen in Winds, when Daenerys, the mother of dragons, and Drogon, the stallion who mounts the world, unite the the Dothraki into a single khalasar. 

So, no surprise, I read this a little differently:

1) The Shadows in MMD's tent were a giant wolf and a flaming man... fire and ice

2) the house with the red door, again... 

3) only death can pay for life, and the birth of dragons

4) the usurpers "knife", remember that contrary to her story, this was the first and only assassin Robert ever sent... and one who wasn't expected to succeed.

5) Tyrion much?

6) Line of Crones laid bare... the crone is one of the seven, she lights the way with her golden lamp, and represents wisdom.

 

3 hours ago, Lost Melnibonean said:

But then she finally succumbs to one last vision...

Quote

Ten thousand slaves lifted bloodstained hands as she raced by on her silver, riding like the wind. Mother! they cried. Mother, mother! They were reaching for her, touching her, tugging at her cloak, the hem of her skirt, her foot, her leg, her breast. They wanted her, needed her, the fire, the life, and Dany gasped and opened her arms to give herself to them . . .

 

3 hours ago, Lost Melnibonean said:

As to the mother of dragons, daughter of death . . . mother of dragons, slayer of lies . . . and mother of dragons, bride of fire . . . sequence, recall when Daenerys walked into the pyre, between the hatching of the second and third eggs, as she heard Jorah calling to her...

Ten thousand bloodstained hands... sounds like the leaves of a Weirwood to me... remember where she is, and the Weirwood like trees surrounding the house from which the shade of the evening is produced.

And she wakes up with the corpse(like?) undying seemingly trying to consume her...

Anyway, I'm sure I've been anything but clear and concise, but it's been fun as always!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
14 minutes ago, LiveFirstDieLater said:

I'm not sure why Dany would see Stannis, or how he will be at all relevant to her. I would suggest that this might not be him, after all, what glows like sunset? Dawn. And who has blue eyes? The dead, and the Starks...

 

I like that. I'm not buying it, but I like it. 

15 minutes ago, LiveFirstDieLater said:

The banner could well be the mummer's dragon, faegon, but then again I'm not so sure Dany is who she appears to be... and doubly unsure why the common people would be chearing.

Consider this...

Quote

"We have these tales coming from the east as well. A second Targaryen, and one whose blood no man can question. Daenerys Stormborn."

Epilogue, Dance

18 minutes ago, LiveFirstDieLater said:

The great stone beast breathing shadow fire is of course a difficult one given how unclear the imagery is. I lean toward it being Tyrion myself, but it's all very speculative.

Tyrion is a very good candidate. 

19 minutes ago, LiveFirstDieLater said:

The vision is of her silver... her grey horse with a white mane... Lyanna was famous for riding horses, stark colors are white and grey, and Dany, with little to no experience was jumping bonfires on her first ride.

Stop looking for lemon trees. That way madness lies. 

20 minutes ago, LiveFirstDieLater said:

Hmmm, a corpse with bright (blue?) eyes? Of course I first thought it was a greyjoy, then I thought it might be Arya wearing a man's face, now I'm not so sure it isn't someone come back from the dead...

After reading The Forsaken, Winds, Aeron looks like a more likely candidate, but I am not buying it yet. 

You would like the Heresy threads

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
13 minutes ago, Lost Melnibonean said:

I like that. I'm not buying it, but I like it. 

Consider this...

Epilogue, Dance

Tyrion is a very good candidate. 

Stop looking for lemon trees. That way madness lies. 

After reading The Forsaken, Winds, Aeron looks like a more likely candidate, but I am not buying it yet. 

You would like the Heresy threads

haha I'm familiar with the heresy... 

and always liked that early on Westeros is referred to as the Sunset Kingdoms.

also worth noting that a good prophesy appears fulfilled before it actually is (and/or could be construed as multiple meanings) 

and I don't doubt Danys blood, nor even that she's of the line of Aerys and Rhaella, just her nickname... stormborn. Oh, and who her parents are...

Always a pleasure

Edited by LiveFirstDieLater

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

i like the idea of the visions being related to the three triples of treasons, mounts and fires.

 

Viserys i suppose could be the treason for Gold, since he tried to steal the dragon eggs to sell them

Rhaegar though? what is rhaegar doing?. Maybe he is the treason for love... he betrayed his family to elope with Lyanna? will dany see it like that in the sense that it makes jon the true king? the vision does bring up Lyanna and how Rhaegar trully loved her..

it seems weak.

 

Silver is the mount to bed? 

Drogon is the mount to dread? which vision represents drogon? maybe if Drogon is the true Stallion that mounts,.. then Rhaego who was supposed to be the stallion was the death that paid for Drogons life.

Edited by LordToo-Fat-to-Sit-a-Horse

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 minutes ago, LordToo-Fat-to-Sit-a-Horse said:

i like the idea of the visions being related to the three triples of treasons, mounts and fires.

 

Viserys i suppose could be the treason for Gold, since he tried to steal the dragon eggs to sell them for an army...

Rhaegar though? what is rhaegar doing?. Maybe he is the treason for love... he betrayed his family to eloppe with Lyanna? will dany see it like that in the sense that it makes jon the true king? the vision does bring up Lyanna and how Rhaegar trully loved her..

it seems weak.

 

Silver is the mount to bed? 

Drogon is the mount to dread? which vision represents drogon? maybe if Drogon is the true Stallion that mounts,.. then Rhaego who was supposed to be the stallion was the death that paid for Drogons life.

I am not sure the mother of dragons, slayer of lies and bride of fire triplets correspond to the fires, mounts, and treasons. You know, I omitted the mounts and the treasons from the OP. I'm gonna have to fix that. Let's see...

Quote

. . . three mounts must you ride . . . one to bed and one to dread and one to love . . . The voices were growing louder, she realized, and it seemed her heart was slowing, and even her breath. . . . three treasons will you know . . . once for blood and once for gold and once for love . . .

The mount Daenerys must ride to bed was her silver, which she rode to her bedding by the darkling stream beneath a sea of stars. The mount Daenerys must ride to dread is her dragon, Drogo, the Black Dread, Balerion, come again. The mount Daenerys must ride to love will be the smoky stallion Daenerys will ride to join her sun-and-stars in the Night Lands. 

The treason for blood Daenerys will know will be committed by Illyrio, who will betray her for the blood of the Blackfyre. The treason for gold Daenerys will know will be committed by Tyrion, who will betray her for all the gold of Casterly Rock. The treason for love Daenerys will know will be committed by Aegon, who will betray her for love of Arianne. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
13 minutes ago, Lost Melnibonean said:

The treason for gold Daenerys will know will be committed by Tyrion, who will betray her for all the gold of Casterly Rock.

I kind of like this. Hadn't thought of it.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I do think Tyrion will interact with Dany long enough to betray her. I've come to believe his dark path involves a chain of betrayals. He already promised a lot of gold to the Second Sons, who will be smoked by Tyrion's treason, IMO. The gold treason Dany dreams about is Tyrion's. I'm in for that.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
53 minutes ago, Lost Melnibonean said:

I am not sure the mother of dragons, slayer of lies and bride of fire triplets correspond to the fires, mounts, and treasons. Yo

im not sure either. but the visions are the response to Dany asking for help to understand the prophecy of the treasons, mounts and fires.

 

Quote

 

"I don't . . ." Her voice was no more than a whisper, almost as faint as theirs. What was happening to her? "I don't understand," she said, more loudly. Why was it so hard to talk here? "Help me. Show me."

. . . help her . . . the whispers mocked. . . . show her . . .

 

And then the undying show her the visions of the slayer of lies, daughter of death, and Bride of fire.. 9 visions that match the three triplets of treasons, mounts and fires.

It would make sense if the 9 visions corresponded each to one of the treasons, fires or mounts profetizad before. even if the order is not clear to the reader... instead of just being a compilation of visions of unrelated events.

 

Edited by LordToo-Fat-to-Sit-a-Horse

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
15 minutes ago, LordToo-Fat-to-Sit-a-Horse said:

im not sure either. but the visions are the response to Dany asking for help to understand the prophecy of the treasons, mounts and fires.

 

And then the undying show her the visions of the slayer of lies, daughter of death, and Bride of fire.. 9 visions that match the three triplets of treasons, mounts and fires.

It would make sense if the 9 visions corresponded each to one of the treasons, fires or mounts profetizad before. even if the order is not clear to the reader... instead of just being a compilation of visions of unrelated events.

 

That issue has come up again in the current great stone beast thread

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
13 minutes ago, LordToo-Fat-to-Sit-a-Horse said:

It would make sense if the 9 visions corresponded each to one of the treasons, fires or mounts profetizad before. even if the order is not clear to the reader... instead of just being a compilation of visions of unrelated events.

In my opinion, the whole prophecy is about Daenery's three children, Rhaego and the two she is yet to have. There's a mount, a fire and a treason for each, in the order the children are born. The lines of the Bride of Fire, Daughter of Death and Slayer of lies quatrains are also each about one child, again in order.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Let me preface this by saying it's wild speculation... but:

I always liked the idea that the "3 treasons" were committed by Dany rather than against her...

But what if it is even more specific than that, what if these are treasons against the laws of the old gods... something I only considered after a noticing all the similarities between THotU and Bloodraven/the Children's caves beneath the weirwoods.

The case could be made that Dany has committed some crimes already and may commit more.

For the sake of arguement, I'll use the first set of visions, since I believe the descriptions and visions are in reverse order (i.e. Fires=bride of fire, mounts=slayer of lies, and treasons=daughter of death):

Viserys's death by molten crown - kinslaying - treason for blood - both as the nature of the crime and because Viserys was killed because of his threat to shed blood in the Dothraki holy city.

Maybe Rhaego w/flaming horse banner - slavery - treason for gold - MMD was a slave and was taken to be sold off, Dany claims her as her own slave, wether out of vengeance or spite she murders Dany's unborn child either intentionally or as collateral damage.

Maybe Rhaegar saying Lyanna's name as he dies - incest - treason for love - since I think they are brother and sister, and expect they get together eventually, it seems decidedly plausible 

Edited by LiveFirstDieLater

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 8/10/2017 at 0:44 PM, Lost Melnibonean said:

The treason for blood Daenerys will know will be committed by Illyrio, who will betray her for the blood of the Blackfyre. The treason for gold Daenerys will know will be committed by Tyrion, who will betray her for all the gold of Casterly Rock. The treason for love Daenerys will know will be committed by Aegon, who will betray her for love of Arianne. 

If Tyrion does betray Daenerys, and if it turns out that Tyrion is the son of Aerys, than this bit...

Quote

His brother's smile curdled like sour milk. "Tyrion, my sweet brother," he said darkly, "there are times when you give me cause to wonder whose side you are on."

Tyrion's mouth was full of bread and fish. He took a swallow of strong black beer to wash it all down, and grinned up wolfishly at Jaime, "Why, Jaime, my sweet brother," he said, "you wound me. You know how much I love my family."

Tyrion I, Game 9

...could foreshadow the perverse little imp's betrayal of his Targaryen half sister. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Quote

A cloth dragon swayed on poles amidst a cheering crowd.

Daenerys IV, Clash 48

Quote

A mummer’s dragon, you said. What is a mummer’s dragon, pray?”

“A cloth dragon on poles,” Dany explained. “Mummers use them in their follies, to give the heroes something to fight.” 

Daenerys V, Clash 63

Quote

Only a handful of lords had been present for Aegon's first coronation at the mouth of the Blackwater, but hundreds were on hand to witness his second, and tens of thousands cheered him afterward in the streets of Oldtown as he rode through the city on Balerion's back. 

Fire and Blood, Aegon's Conquest

Of course, many, if not most, readers have long assumed that the first two quotes above, when considered in the context of the little baby Aegon having been unrecognizable after Gregor finished with him, foreshadowed that an ambiguous prince would appear, be celebrated and cheered by tens of thousands, and later be revealed to be an imposter. 

The second quote suggests to me that the imposter does not need to be cheered. Rather, it helps the reader connect Daenerys's vision to Aegon the Conqueror. 

Edited by Lost Melnibonean

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now

×