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So who will be the final villain? The Night King or Cersei?

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36 minutes ago, Wouter said:

Since the NK is the morge urgent threat (especially once his army can move past the Wall), I think he will have to be addressed first. With the Walkers likely being impervious to any attempts at diplomacy (even though Jon was thinking about trying to talk through wights in ADWD), I think this fight will go to the wire and thus will have to be decisive.

Which may leave Cersei for last, in the show. As a mop-up operation.

 

Jamie and Cersei weren't originally POV characters in the books so I think their importance is over rated by many.  The show may do things differently but a quick look at her prophecies.....

1)  Queen you shall be... until there comes another, younger and more beautiful, to cast you down and take all that you hold dear.

2) and three for you. Gold shall be their crowns and gold their shrouds, she said. And when your tears have drowned you, the valonqar shall wrap his hands about your pale white throat and choke the life from you.

The assumption is Dany will take everything she holds dear (and now all her kids are dead in the show that would be her Crown and Jamie) and only then will she be killed.  My personal view is that Jamie will kill her as she is killing him (after he goes over to Dany's side) and that she'll die a few seconds before Jamie does.  My prediction is based on a lot of foreshadowing in the books, rather than the show.

Will that be the final act of the story?  I don't think so because as I state above, neither were POV characters initially.

Also when the books were going to be a trilogy the second book was going to focus on Dany's return to Westeros.  The final book was going to be the Others invasion.

 

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The books have Aegon, though, with the originally planned second book probably focusing on that. Cersei could potentially hold out, either in Casterly Rock or King's Landing, while Aegon and Dany end up fighting each other.

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9 minutes ago, Wouter said:

The books have Aegon, though, with the originally planned second book probably focusing on that. Cersei could potentially hold out, either in Casterly Rock or King's Landing, while Aegon and Dany end up fighting each other.

I think Aegon's a red herring and will never sit the Iron Throne, primarily because Cersei's prophecy about one more beautiful casting her down.  I don't think that describes Aegon.....

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35 minutes ago, Ser Gareth said:

I think Aegon's a red herring and will never sit the Iron Throne, primarily because Cersei's prophecy about one more beautiful casting her down.  I don't think that describes Aegon.....

Aegon is not going to cast down Cersei. But he may distract Dany and co before those get around to kill Cersei off, and after Aegon the Others may be more pressing.

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10 hours ago, Illiterati said:

Hot Pie.  He's been the mastermind behind everything all along.

Damm, you were faster. I can not stop thinking about what he told Arya: "You and I are the same. We are both survivors". That was clear foreshadowing, was it not?

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On 15/08/2017 at 0:25 AM, Esa1996 said:

I'll be quite disappointed if the NK is not the final villain in the series. It's always been about how mundane the southern wars are and if the series ends with one of those, well, it'll be more than a little anticlimactic.

This above, unless something like this below:

On 16/08/2017 at 4:21 AM, John Meta said:

Martin said that one difference between his story and archetypes is that in his story the evil isn't ugly (like orcs in LotR). Given that I don't think the Night King will technically be the bad guy everyone expects he is. I think it's more likely there won't be an "final villain" but will be a "final realization" that there isn't really any "final villain". I'm thinking at this point in time that the Night King is the ice and Dany is the fire in the song of ice and fire. Jon and Dany will become romantic; but in the end (probably through Bran) the Night King will make his purpose known, and it is that he has come for his "princess that was promised" and Dany will have to become the Night Queen, to fulfill some promise that was made. Jon will have to give her up. Jon being both ice and fire will be instrumental in bringing the two together in some way. The Night King started stirring at the same time as Dany, and as she moves north, he moves south. Ice and fire is a union, you might say, a marriage, of oppositions, and when the Night King gets his promised princess, balance will be gained.

But whatever happens, I don't think there will be a "final villain" such as Sauron in the LotR.

I thought the whole point was the "game of thrones" is for fools who don't see the bigger picture, and the Others/White Walkers are the real threat. But then the series is called "Game of Thrones". I always thought this was a mistake, but maybe they've changed the whole premise of the series.

On the other hand, especially in the books, I've always thought it's possible we'll find out it's not as simple as good versus evil and that the Others might turn out to have sympathetic motivations. Maybe to them, humans are some kind of evil fire demon. Maybe the very presence of humans makes things painfully hot for them, as they make humans cold. Maybe as far as they're concerned the Long Night is just how things are supposed to be, and they're fighting to stop these evil fire demons burning and melting everything with their horrifying endless summer. Seems a bit lame, though.

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Huh?

Cersei just let Tyrion live, she is not even going to be the human final villain (I think this will be LF). I half expect her to die a half heroic death.

Btw, can anyone remind me the shape of that prophecy in the show? I'm almost sure it didn't even mention the valonquar.

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14 minutes ago, Tianzi said:

Btw, can anyone remind me the shape of that prophecy in the show? I'm almost sure it didn't even mention the valonquar.

Nope, valonqar was never mentioned on the show. We had the number of children, gold will be their shrouds and younger more beautiful queen casting her down and taking all she holds dear.

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11 hours ago, Ser Petyr Parker said:

This above, unless something like this below:

I thought the whole point was the "game of thrones" is for fools who don't see the bigger picture, and the Others/White Walkers are the real threat. But then the series is called "Game of Thrones". I always thought this was a mistake, but maybe they've changed the whole premise of the series.

On the other hand, especially in the books, I've always thought it's possible we'll find out it's not as simple as good versus evil and that the Others might turn out to have sympathetic motivations. Maybe to them, humans are some kind of evil fire demon. Maybe the very presence of humans makes things painfully hot for them, as they make humans cold. Maybe as far as they're concerned the Long Night is just how things are supposed to be, and they're fighting to stop these evil fire demons burning and melting everything with their horrifying endless summer. Seems a bit lame, though.

All I can say about the title is that it's clearly describing the political positionings of people playing for power. What that says about the players I'm not sure.

But it is a Song of Ice and Fire, and it seems to me to be alluding to oppositions which are requiring balancing for stabilization. I mean, it's not a Song of Fire beating Ice, or, vice versa. It's like, yen and yang. Winter and Summer. I don't think the end game is for one to eradicate the other, but to come into harmony in such final mutual resolution which creates a kind of synthesis. If I look at it I would see the balancing line as:

Ice -> Night King -> Starks -> Lyanna -> Jon Snow <- Rhaegar <- Targaryens <- Lord of Light <- Fire

I would be surprised if the end game is "Ice beats fire" or "Fire beats ice" but instead "Ice and fire" as we already see manifested in Jon Snow. He is to me the center of the story. The balance. We already see Jon as bringing union, such as to the once-bitter rivals the Watch and the Wildlings. I suspect he is instrumental in bringing about the end game union of ice and fire; the microcosmic union bringing into manifestation the macrocosmic union. 

Edited by John Meta

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On 19/08/2017 at 3:42 AM, Tianzi said:

Huh?

Cersei just let Tyrion live, she is not even going to be the human final villain (I think this will be LF). I half expect her to die a half heroic death.

Btw, can anyone remind me the shape of that prophecy in the show? I'm almost sure it didn't even mention the valonquar.

Spoiler

Don't read the leaks, whatever you do 

 

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I really hope it is Cersei, this season has been more focused on fighting the white walkers and has suffered due it, it's been less about playing the game and all the backstabbing/plotting and all about the armies/fights.

I would prefer season 8 to get back to what made the first 4/5 seasons great and be more about the scheming and dialogue with some battles rather than a whole season of out and out fighting with short scenes of dialogue in between... which is what we will get if the final season is all about defeating the whites.

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My theory is that Cersei will become the Ice Queen.

I've gone in more detail about it here: 


But to summarize, it has to do with Qyburn reverse engineering the magic of the White Walkers using the Wight that Jon and Dany are going to take to Kings Landing. Cersei kills everyone only to be betrayed by Jaime in the very last moment. The story ends with him sitting in the throne, just like when he killed the Mad King.

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On the show, I think the Final Boss will be Cersei, As we are at the end of Season 7 with 7 more episodes to go, and don't have a motive or anything for the Wight Walkers.. Not one conversation. Just Zombies and silence.  Which means we will probably get a lengthy exposition scene next season to sum up their purpose. But the main battle is clearly against Cersei.

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Both. Everything began with White Walkers making their big move beyond the wall and then Cersei's incest revealed in the first episode. They should be both destroyed at the same time in the final.

16 hours ago, iamthefight said:

I think it´s gonna be the night king, Cersei will unite her forces with the living ones.

Cersei ''needs to'' unite her forces with the living ones because she has no other choice, everyone will tell her she must, she is even using her own wight (the dead Mountain) and blowing up religious places without any shred of conscience. They are both monsters, lust for power. Cersei wouldn't even care if every person turns into a wight unless she stays at power.

Edited by Erkan12

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