[Spoilers] Rant and Rave Without Repercussion

[Snormund]

Man. You guys bring up a lot more nonsense I didn't even focus on. Good points I might add! Still, It's hard for me to outright dislike the show since I'm so attached to it based on the books and first 4 seasons. It keeps disappointing me though. Next two episodes I imagine will make me mad 

 

i think one has to suspend disbelief a lot to enjoy the current show. Even then it can be hard because were used to better. 

[Princess_of_Sunspear]

Why is Tormund suddenly bringing up the old grudges to Jorah the Explorer? The Mormont family was hunting them down, but guess what, that was fully reciprocated. Snow and Co were hunting them down too, wasn't the whole point of Hardhome that everyone needs to band together?

All throughout Tarlys' speech I expected him to come up with "Queen Cersei is going to make Westeros great again!" He's even worse than Walder Frey, because at least Frey was doing his double crossing shit for land, titles and to address his grudges, Tarly is doing it because he's brainwashed by propagnda coming from the new Mad Queen.

[Lockjaw of House Boltagon]

2 minutes ago, Princess_of_Sunspear said:

All throughout Tarlys' speech I expected him to come up with "Queen Cersei is going to make Westeros great again!" He's even worse than Walder Frey, because at least Frey was doing his double crossing shit for land, titles and to address his grudges, Tarly is doing it because he's brainwashed by propagnda coming from the new Mad Queen.

Someone needs to give Randyll a MWGA hat. And a map. 

[Illiterati]

15 minutes ago, Banjo said:

1) The mess which was Jamie/Bronn escaping and then Tyrion/Davos coming to King's landing to meet them.

So Jamie charges Dany and her dragon and at the last minute is saved by Bronn. Then Bronn manages to save a drowning Jamie despite his armor. And Bronn is able to swim with Jamie to a safe enough place despite his armor. And this while both of them went into the river right in front of Dany and the dothraki who could easily make out who Jamie was based on his armor and hence recognize his importance.

The Davos/Tyrion hatch a plan to meet Jamie so that they can talk about their plans of capturing a wight and show it to Cersei. Tyrion somehow communicates with Bronn, Davos smuggles him and he manages to do so in the most convoluted manner ever. 

You know what would have avoided all the mess? Jamie being captured by Dany. Tyrion convincing her that he would be better of as a messenger to Cersei and can carry their plan to her. Simple and more plausible

 

2) They talk about Davos smuggling Tyrion to king's landing.

Davos was a great smuggler but how familiar is he with king's landing? You know who is an expert of secret passages in King's landing? Varys. And he was standing right there. 

What struck me is how does Tyrion have ANY idea Jamie is alive to go and treat with?  He saw him go in the water.  Had he seen him come up, they would have been captured.

[Illiterati]

2 minutes ago, Lockjaw of House Boltagon said:

Someone needs to give Randyll a MWGA hat. And a map. 

Not anymore.

[Greywater-Watch]

A conversation picked up at the camp fire the first night after leaving Eastwatch by the Sea:

Clegane: So, king of the North, it seems you have fought this army of the dead before?

Jon: Yes, twice. Myself and Tormund, Him in much more battles.

Clegane: So tell me, King Snow, what expects us, how do we fight them, what is special about them?

Jon: As far as I  can tell, there are two kinds of foes. First there are the wights. And then there are the White Walkers. And the Night King of course.

Clegane: Tell me more.

Jon: Well, the wights, first of all. There are mayn of them, hundres, thousands, tens of thousands. They are hard to kill. If you cut of a limp, this limp will still fight. They are strong and feel no pain.

Clegane: What do you mean?

Jon: I fought one once in Castle Black. He had blue eyes, but his looks were well the looks of a ranger re-animated. I had a direwolf and a sword to fight him.

Clegane: And?

Well, I thrust the sword through his bowels but he still moved his hands to my throat and nearly throttled me, had the direwolf not saved me.

Clegane: And then he was dead, yes?

Jon: No, only after throwing fire at him, you can still see my burned hand.

Clegane: And the “White Walkers”?

Jon: Now that is a still more dangerous foe. Simple swords will not hold, but break when touching the sword of the others. It seems to freeze your own sword on the touch. The only chance to defeat them is with a sword made of Valyrian steel or with dragon glass. The wildlings never achieved to kill a white walker, right Tormund?

Tormund: You are right, as far as I know.

Jon: Oh, and of course your own amour means nothing, the weapon of the White Walkers goes through it like through silk.

Clegane. Sounds amusing. And the Night King?

Jon: Well, he sort of looks like the white walkers, but I never fought him directly. He has supernatural powers. By just raising his hands he can re-animate all fallen human foes to become wights within seconds. I do not know if he can be killed by dragon glass or Valyrian steel.

Clegane: And we want to do what: Catch a White Walker alive?

Jon: No that I think would be impossible. A wight sould suffice.

Clegane: So the plan is to catch a wight wondering all alone in the wild, without anyone else of the Dead Army noticing?

Jon: Ahem, little probability. They do not wander alone, as far as I know. They always march in big troops, many wights and some few White Walkers to lead them.

Clegane: Hmmm…. Thinking of all you said, our only hope is to be lucky and meet a small troupe of wights, capture one, kill the rest quickly, and make off fast, correct?

Jon: Precisely.

Clegane: So, let me guess. In order to get away fast, once we got the wight, we ned horses. Close fight is not recommended, neither for wights, nor for White Walkers. So, we put the fights on fire, kill the White Walkers with spears or arrows with dragonglass heads. As fas as I can see, only you have a Valyrian sword, so you could fight a White Walker at close range, if need be. Beric here, he can put his sord on fire, so if necessary, he could fight the wights at close range, but in any case range fight would be advisable.

Jon: Yes, that is a good summary.

Clegane: So, None of us has a bow, none a spear, where is the dragonglass?

Jon: [looking at Jorah Mormont]: Ahem Jorah, what about the box of dragonglass you put in the boat when we set off from Dragonstone?

Jorah: Well, your Grace, you told me to put this box into the boat, but what happened afterwards with it, I do not know. I never knew there was dragonglass in it, nor its use.

Clegane: So, I assume we meet a hundred horsed bowmen soon, who you should no doubt have had no problems to command to come to Eastwatch by raven, when we left Dragonstone. These hundred bowmen equipped with fire and dragonglass arrows will await us with some spare horses. And provisions of course, as we just ate what we had in our pockets, when leaving Eastwatch. Correct? And for sure, they have some ravens for Winterfell, Eatwatch and Dragonstone, in case we need to send  message for help or at least facing certain failure and death to inform about it?

Jon: Oh shit, I forgot about all that…

[Princess_of_Sunspear]

8 minutes ago, Lockjaw of House Boltagon said:

Someone needs to give Randyll a MWGA hat. And a map. 

Tbh, looks like Cersei is making those hats by the bucketload, judging by how much she's loved by the smallfolk. 

[That Westerosi Dude]

23 minutes ago, Banjo said:

1) The mess which was Jamie/Bronn escaping and then Tyrion/Davos coming to King's landing to meet them.

So Jamie charges Dany and her dragon and at the last minute is saved by Bronn. Then Bronn manages to save a drowning Jamie despite his armor. And Bronn is able to swim with Jamie to a safe enough place despite his armor. And this while both of them went into the river right in front of Dany and the dothraki who could easily make out who Jamie was based on his armor and hence recognize his importance.

Then Davos/Tyrion hatch a plan to meet Jamie so that they can talk about their plans of capturing a wight and show it to Cersei. Tyrion somehow communicates with Bronn, Davos smuggles him and he manages to do so in the most convoluted manner ever. 

You know what would have avoided all the mess? Jamie being captured by Dany. Tyrion convincing her that he would be better of as a messenger to Cersei and can convey their plan to her. Simple and more plausible

 

2) They talk about Davos smuggling Tyrion to king's landing.

Davos was a great smuggler but how familiar is he with king's landing? You know who is an expert of secret passages in King's landing? Varys. And he was standing right there. 

Hell Tyrion was doing a play-by-play of Jaime charging Dany last episode, he knew it was Jaime, he knew exactly where they went into the Weasleys' Wizarding Wheezes portable swamp, but not one person was looking for them.

[PrettyPig]

Wouldn’t you guys loved to have been a fly on the wall when D&D and George had that long meeting a few years back concerning the endgame of the series?   I have a hard time believing that the "Septon Maynard" crap was a scenario that GRRM laid out for them.

 

 D1:   Okay, so, uh, the next item that we need to run through is, um... *paper shuffling* ...the question of Jon’s parentage.   Obviously, uh, this is a big thing in the show and we’re going to have to address it.

D2:   Yeah, the fans are really chomping at the bit on that one, since we did all that setup in Season 1 where Jon talks to Ned and everything.

GRRM:   *digs into chile rellanos*

D2:   So we wanted to make sure we’re on the same page as you for the reveal-

D1:   -since that’s basically the central mystery of the series, that, uh, sets up Jon as the hero.

GRRM:   ....  *chewing*

D1:   We’ve mostly got it mapped out already, the best, uh, most logical way to handle it for the show, but wanted to get some feedback from you about-

D2:  But for us to lay who Jon’s father is, we need to go over this with you to make sure we’re handling this the way you envisioned-

D1: - Jon’s father, that reveal is going to be huge because of who he is.

GRRM:   *looks up from Wagyu beef fajitas*    Who do you think he is?

D2:   Well, it’s pretty clear it’s Rhaegar Targaryen.  

GRRM:   *stops chewing*  You think so, huh.

D1:   I mean, after reading through the books, and, uh, you know, talking with some people that are really familiar with the story, Rhaegar is the obvious candidate.

D2:  We’ve been dropping Easter eggs about it since Season Two, and will really ramp up the hints in Season Four.

D1:   Subtly, though.

D2:  Right.  Really subtle, so the fans understand –

D1:  -and by the time Jon and Dany get together, like, uh, like sexually, it will totally make sense, they’re both such good leaders and so concerned with their people because they are both Targaryens.  

D2:   And the Targaryens practiced incest, so...

GRRM:   .....

GRRM:   Huh.    How are you going to make it happen?  The Rhaegar thing.

D1:   Uh, we definitely want to get your insight on it, but we’re thinking about an annullment and a secret marriage.  

D2:  To Lyanna.  

D1:   It will be very organic.   We’ll set it up with the Tower of Joy first.

GRRM:    The tower of joy?

D2:   When Ned finds Jon – baby Jon – in the tower.

GRRM:  Okay.  *sips margarita*

D2:    It’s going to have to curve away from your story somewhat, because we don’t have the space to show them falling in love at the tourney of Harrenhal-

D1:  Rhaegar and Lyanna.  Where they met.  He gave her the blue roses.

D2:  -but we can end up in the same place.   

D1:   I don’t think the fans will care how they met anyway.

GRRM :  *wipes mouth*   Really.

D1:   Just because we haven’t done much with Rhaegar.  And he’s dead, so not central to the plot.

GRRM:   *chews*

D2:   We can cover it in a flashback.   Maybe Bran can see it.  Since he’s, um, the Three Eyed Raven.

GRRM:   Crow.  Three Eyed Crow.

D1:  Right.   So he can see everything, in, uh, the past.   Through the weirnet.

D2:  Like the marriage.     We can have the High Septon can do it since it’s the royal family.

D1:   And make it legitimate.   

GRRM:    The High Septon is in King’s Landing, though...?

D1:   We haven’t worked out the particulars yet.   And, uh, that’s why we wanted your input, so we could understand the details and make it unfold as naturally as possible.

GRRM:    I see.  *drains margarita*

D2:   Our ultimate goal is to convey this in the way you wanted-

D1: - We’re really invested in taking your vision to screen as faithfully as possible to the source material-

D2:  -while also giving the fans what they want.  Which is Jon as a secret Targaryen.

D1:   Rightful heir to the Iron Throne.

GRRM:  Sounds like you guys have this all worked out – I’m not even sure what I have to add at this point.   *eyes dessert menu*

D1:    Great – so, uh, if we have your buyoff on it, we’ll just move on to the Dornish plot.

D2:   We have some terrific ideas for the Sand Snakes.

 

[BradDoty08]

I wonder if Cersi really is pregnant. She knew that Jamie was meeting with Tyrion and she knows that Jamie loves Tyrion. Maybe she's just using the "pregnancy" to keep Jamie under her control? She knows Jamie is the sort of sane one of the family and that he'll do what he thinks is right. Maybe she's just trying to keep him under her thumb.

[That Westerosi Dude]

Just now, BradDoty08 said:

I wonder if Cersi really is pregnant. She knew that Jamie was meeting with Tyrion and she knows that Jamie loves Tyrion. Maybe she's just using the "pregnancy" to keep Jamie under her control? She knows Jamie is the sort of sane one of the family and that he'll do what he thinks is right. Maybe she's just trying to keep him under her thumb.

lol showJaime or Larry hasn't been sane since season 4, he has regressed so much that he is now lower than he was in the pilot. He doesn't have an opinion, he only follows Cersei. 

[Illiterati]

4 minutes ago, BradDoty08 said:

I wonder if Cersi really is pregnant. She knew that Jamie was meeting with Tyrion and she knows that Jamie loves Tyrion. Maybe she's just using the "pregnancy" to keep Jamie under her control? She knows Jamie is the sort of sane one of the family and that he'll do what he thinks is right. Maybe she's just trying to keep him under her thumb.

Maybe she's preggo AND trying to keep him under her thumb.

[BradDoty08]

1 minute ago, Illiterati said:

Maybe she's preggo AND trying to keep him under her thumb.

That's certainly a possibility although she obviously knows the prophecy saying she won't have more than 3 kids.

[Banjo]

Tormund apparently somehow knows that Cersei and Jamie are incestuous. A secret so important once that Jamie tried to kill a little kid over, is now known by a wildling from beyond the wall. Now I would like to know what context this came up in when Jon was filling in on Tormund about the seven kingdoms. "By the way, just between you and me, the queen fucks her brother. Gross!"

[Nerevanin]

The one thing that I truly hated about this episode was Arya suggesting killing the lords.

[Illiterati]

Perhaps she sees this as a break in the prophecy.  Negotiating with fate, so to speak.

[RhaenysBee]

2 hours ago, Sir Loin Steak said:

Haven't posted a good rant in a while, so this one's a long one.

Samwell's defining trait is now that he will steal your stuff then take off in the middle of the night, all the while forgetting about vital exposition until required. He should rock up to King's Landing and cart the Iron Throne off while he's at it.

Jaime's fake out death was impressively lame. Kudos for not even having him shed his breastplate. Kept the gold hand too, good thing his empty head makes him so buoyant. Bronn contradicting himself within the space of two lines was just the Emmy award winning writing I've come to expect from this show.

St. Tyrion the Most Moral Man in the Universe is the most worthless adviser of all time. He has done absolutely nothing to prove himself of value to Deadpan and has consistently fucked everything up: he screwed up in Meereen, he managed to concoct a plan so amazingly terrible that Deadpan lost all three of her major allies, now he's crafted a pointless suicide mission for Jon. There is no in universe reason why she would tolerate or forgive his breath-taking incompetence and borderline insubordination – they are on the same side because they are “good guys”, any pretence of still being a deconstruction or a more realistic take on the fantasy genre is long gone.

Week after week it's hammered home that there is zero reason for Deadpan not to have immediately taken the Red Keep, she could've flown there with Drogon and ended the war single-handedly at any time with minimal civilian causalities. Instead she has been sitting on her arse for what have to be in-universe months (given all the other events this season: large scale movements of medieval armies and fleets, etc.). Hell, this episode establishes that Davos and the extremely conspicuous Tyrion can access the Red Keep any time they felt like it (and mentally summon Bronn?), she doesn't even need her extremely well-behaved, precision targeting, psychically-controlled superweapons she could send a few assassins and Cersei would be done. In a show that has no shortage of extreme contrivance, the warping of the plot to preserve D&D's beloved Carol is the most glaring.

That said the competition is stiff, especially the White Walkers, who despite marching for literally years in showtime still haven't reached the Wall. A teenage girl dragging a large crippled boy through icy wastes is somehow orders of magnitude faster than an army that doesn't require rest or food.

As for the moral quandary over Deadpan burning fools... why is this violence different from all the other “empowering” violence. She's been completely consist on this for seasons, everyone both on her side and against is aware of what she has done (somehow). It's also completely consistent with the behaviour of every other leader in the show, including “heroes” Jon Snow (executed traitors including Olly, with dubious authority to boot given that he immediately declared his watch over) and Ned Stark who executed a Night's Watch deserter in the very first episode). And Varys is judging her? Varys who is open about the fact that he sends assassins after people he feels are unworthy to rule? Her bringing up the Wheel Breaking speech again was obnoxious but executing an idiot traitor who doesn't know when to surrender, who refuses the mercy of being allowed to take the Black, who's whole motive comes down to insane xenophobia (let alone that he seems to have forgotten about centuries of Targaryen rule, fighting for them during Robert's Rebellion and that Dragonstone is part of Westeros, let alone the fact Cersei blew up the Vatican). Scene wasn't helped by David Benioff standing around conspicuously just over Randyll's shoulder. On a tangent, why are the Lannister troops so loyal and have unshakable morale in the face of overwhelming force and dragon-fire? It's not believable and doesn't fit with any of the other depictions of them found throughout the show.

The lampshading of things like Ghost not being present or Tyrion being responsible for the death of Davos' sons, is somehow even more annoying than the writers forgetting large elements of their own plot. It's obnoxious, "yeah we remembered one of the many things that we dropped the ball on, we just don't care."

Jon's suicide mission to somehow snatch one of the wights without being immediately killed by the rest of the army reminds me of Star Trek where the bridge crew, the senior officers/main characters are always going on missions where they have no business being on the front-line. They even through in a few wildling redshirts to complete the effect. That they didn't even shell out for a few horses was the cherry on the stupidity cake. If they know they are within walking distance why even go to them? Why didn't Deadpan just do a fly-by if she cares about Jon's well-being so much as to almost express a feeling? And proving things to Cersei? The illegitimate openly-incestuous queen who blew up the Vatican, who's military only survives because Dany is inexplicably merciful?

It gets even worse when you remember all the dropped plot-threads, time wasting and obviously incompetent plotting that led to this point – so many of us ranters saw this coming for years, but apparently professional writers D&D are either wildly incompetent or simply don't care (or, more likely, both). Remember how they spent an entire season moving Sam from A to B just to have him re-learn information he had at point A? One of the biggest arguments for deviating from the books is efficiency, there's simply too much to be covered in a live-action format, but the writers have been incredibly wasteful of screen-time for seasons and are now obviously scrambling to jam everything together into a simple good vs evil confrontation, logic be damned.

Almost all character development ceased seasons ago, with the possibly exception of Sansa's dial-a-personality. Half the cast have been standing around waiting to be killed off for years now, and it won't even register when they finally are struck off the payroll because they barely resemble characters at this point and won't be remembered save for maybe a catchphrase (see Rickon the Quantum Stark, Stannis the Gammer-nazi, the House/Nation of Dorne, etc.).

The show is bad fan-fiction peppered with cheesy, forth-wall breaking, “fan”-service. Every element of the writing feels fake and low-effort.

 

can I print and frame this post? 

[David Selig]

Quote

Jaime's fake out death was impressively lame. Kudos for not even having him shed his breastplate. Kept the gold hand too, good thing his empty head makes him so buoyant.

ROFL. This is the funniest thing I've read in weeks.

Anyway, nothing in this show makes sense this season. Why bother convincing Cersei of anything when she has no armies left and doesn't control anything right now except the capital? Dany could just go there, melt the Red Keep, burn Cersei a;ove, take over, and that would be it. Nobody would cry for Cersei and it will be way less of a bloodbath than the battle in the previous episode.

How the hell did Tyrion got in contact with Bronn anyway? Did he write him an email or send him a text on his mobile? The whole thing is so silly.

Why is LF still in the show? He is a complete waste of space.

The dialogue just hurts my ears, it's that bad. It's a travesty that a show with such a huge budget which is visually amazing is so poorly written. No subtlety whatsoever, most lines are downright cringeworthy, and everything is explained over and over again as if the viewers are morons.

[iprayiam]

3 hours ago, Elayis said:

 

The obvious forced character assassination of Tarly was just dumb. He may be a harsh man but he’s fair, and there’s no way he would side with someone who killed her own kin, commits incest and murdered the entirety of his liege lords.

I generally agree that the Tarly direction is ridiculous. BUT. Wasn't Sam's whole reason for being at the wall because his own father threatened to kill him if he didn't? (at least in the show).

If he was willing to murder his own son out of his inheritance, then he's not really set up as a guy who gives a crap about kin-slaying.

[Ser Yorick Ampersand]

13 hours ago, Grizzly Mormont said:

Davos has a boat full of boner pills.