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[Spoilers] Rant and Rave Without Repercussion


Lady Fevre Dream

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1 hour ago, Capo Ferro said:

 

Err,

 

What are the rules of this thread?  Your signature contains a link to a board FAQ but that comes up with a page not found error.  There weren't rules set out in the first post.  I'd have thought, you know, that "without repercussion" means without repercussion but as that is apparently not the case is there somewhere the rules can be found?

I was also confused the first time I wrote in this thread. It seems that here you can just complain and no one should debate, just share your opinion on the episode.

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5 hours ago, Capo Ferro said:

Err, no.  Not like other castles which sit in a location that had strategic value such as the two I mentioned or protect some other resource that's actually important in the war.  

What, in books or show, has established the supreme importance of maintaining an iron hold on casterly rock and its exhausted gold mines at the expense of a strong offensive thrust.

 

Not being as strategically important as possible--like say the castle that guards entry to the North or the towers that command the Trident--doesn't mean it holds no strategic value at all. For one thing, it's the ancestral home of House Lannister, where the family has ruled for billions of years, or whatever. If the heads of that house, Larry and Carol, aren't willing to defend it why should the Lanninsters be willing to fight for them?

It commands Lannisport, which is one of the trading centers of Westeros. 

Say Carol sees dragons descending upon the Red Keep and doesn't want to surrender or commit suicide. She escapes through whatever secret passage Tyrion took and flees the capital. Now she's a refugee; where does she go? Hey, how about a castle previously thought to be impregnable (before Tyrion's Ten Good Men).

You mentioned Theon and Winterfell earlier. Why was holding the castle stupid in that particular situation? Because Theon had no support. The Iron-born are a sea power, and weren't interested in owning Winterfell. It's hundreds of miles or whatever inland. 

That left Theon with like 15 men to hold the North. Untenable. Carol and Larry, on the other hand, would probably think of King's Landing as their Alamo. But if they were to defend Casterly Rock to the last Lannister, it would make infinitely more sense than Theon and 14 men dying for the privilege of holding a castle far, far away from home for a week. 

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Discussion is okay but what i have been reading are arguments caused by those trying to justify the silly decisions in writing D&D made. There is no defending this BS and if there was it can be done in another thread not this one.

The only things i liked were Bran's use of the ravens and Gendry is back.

I wish Jon had been bonding with Raeghal before dany showed up. 

Gendry needs to reforge that war hammer and take fifty percent of that head off.

Why are the Starks, the family who next to the Tyrells seemed the closest, now just so blasé with one another? 

Wight Hunt is incredibly Stupid and juzt meant to be spectacle

So I take it Moat Cailin is not garrisoned anymore? Or did the BWB use Brienne secret path around it? Is Howland Reed guiding people around MC?

Also the BWB traveled a thousand miles to Eastwatch without anyone seeing them...

AnpoJon did not stop at white harbor for proper equipment and provisions a d more troops because...? Iam drawing a blank. Did he even send a raven to Winterfell?

Lastly why is Littlefinger still alive?!?! This is more baffling than people following Cersie. Sansa knows he kicked off the events that led to the WotFK, she also has the fact that he sold her to the Boltons to hold over his head. TheVale knights like Lord Royce would love to be rid of him and the sway he has over Robin. So why is this muthafucka still breathing? All it should take is Sansa talking to the right lords for him to git got

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[Mod Note]

In the past,  I provided a text for the head of each new Rant & Rave thread to make the rules of this particular topic clear. It seems to have gotten lost along the way, so I provide it here. Feel free to quote it when starting a new thread.

[/Mod]

The topic of the thread is discussing things you dislike about the show. It is not a place to throw insults at one another or to act as if the normal rules of the forum do not apply.

Discussion of why people disliked something is permitted, but remember the topic at hand: this is not a debate thread, it's a discussion thread specifically about episode details or events that posters disliked. Posts that ignore this will be considered off-topic.

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1 hour ago, Spaßvogel said:

On re-watch, I just can't get over Jaime swimming to safety with full plate and a solid gold hand.

I think I´ve got it. Jaime is really Azor Ahai, and D+D think we completely forgot about the bath with Brienne, so they gave him another rebirth moment :-).  

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There is hardly anything I could say that has not been already said.

I just watch the show so I can enjoy this tread and Preston Jacob´s hilarious reviews. I really recommend them. Whatever you think about his theories, the review videos are really funny to watch and he really rips off many of the inconsistencies.

 

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58 minutes ago, Armand Gargalen said:

There is hardly anything I could say that has not been already said.

I just watch the show so I can enjoy this tread and Preston Jacob´s hilarious reviews. I really recommend them. Whatever you think about his theories, the review videos are really funny to watch and he really rips off many of the inconsistencies.

 

Similarly, I usually come here and post my rants and raves with a video (even though it's a video I myself have done).

With an episode so filled with plot holes, it's hard to chose on the ones to focus on.

Here's this week's recap:

 

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On 8/14/2017 at 5:24 PM, Sir Loin Steak said:

The people of King's Landing are a level of fickle not usually seen outside Springfield.

Remember when they didn't like the Lannisters, but adored Margaery and the Tyrells?

Remember when they were overtaken with religious fervor?

Remember the walk of shame?

Cersei has no real claim to the throne, is known to be incestuous and is open about it, blew up the equivalent of the Vatican along with their beloved Margaery and the High Septon. And yet the people are cheering Euron in the streets and seem to have zero problem with any of this.

And if it's a choice between a surgical strike on the Red Keep or months of being starved and worse in a siege, which one are the smallfolk going to get over quicker?

edit forgot this one: I doubt walking around guarded by a giant, presumably very smelly, zombie does much for her public image either. Tommen's suicide would probably be rumoured to be murder on her part too, going by what we've seen before.

:rofl:

That was the problem with the people of King's Landing. Too fickle. Always caring about who slept with who, who walked around with the dead, who was nice to them, who had them killed for no reason, whom they saw naked and hurled feces at, and about getting food and all sorts of unimportant things like that. Thus, they were replaced with Hollywood tour groups so they cheer for whoever the applause sign tells them to.

:blink:

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On 8/16/2017 at 0:21 AM, darmody said:

Gilly didn't even mention Lyanna. She just said Prince Rhaegar annulled his marriage and wed someone else in secret.

Sam should know who Rhaegar is and find his annulment curious, but he cut Gilly off before there was any connection to Jon. 

Give the writers a modicum of credit. They didn't have Sam hear and ignore intell about a Stark marrying the heir to the Iron Throne around the time of his Stark bastard buddy's birth. 

As I said, there is no reason for Sam to immediately lock in on what she said as a key piece of information for Jon.  As far as Sam knows, there is no reason to doubt that Ned Stark is Jon's father. But seeing as how the entire rebellion started because Rhaegar kidnapped Lyanna Stark, Sam would have to be a fool not to connect the dots between what Gilly said and Lyanna (if he were paying attention).  

So I don't see any reason why I need to give the writers credit for this scene, especially in a thread set up to complain about the episode.  Since this is not a debate thread, I will just expound on why I thought the scene (like most of the episode) was lame fan service rather than a natural plot development.  

Everything about this universe (the importance of oaths, the personalities and motivations that characters have displayed, physics), gets set aside when D&D need to cram something in or move a character from point A to point B.  The writers could not even be bothered to develop a rational reason for Sam to abandon a direct order from the Lord Commander to become a maester. Instead, they had him leaving because he was fed up with his homework and had a hissy fit.

 There are a number of more plausible reasons to get him out of the Citadel.  The most obvious would be to have the maesters expel him for violating the rules and insubordination.  In that scenario, he could have given a speech about the uselessness of the maesters while on his way out the door to his next plot point without it feeling artificial or out of character for Sam.  Indeed, it would fit the theme the show is trying to establish of the maesters being hidebound and out of touch.  

If the writers were tied to the idea of Sam quitting the Citadel rather than getting expelled, I would have rather he left after finding out the maesters withheld the information about the deaths of Randyll and Dickon.  It would be a rash, disobedient act (given his orders), but at least that would be an understandable human reaction to tragic news.  Instead, the genius writers wanted to set up this potential exchange:

Jon:  Sam, my old friend.  You are back!  But where is your maester's chain?

Sam: I didn't technically become a maester.  I left when I could not get those ancient fools to appreciate the threat facing the seven kingdoms. 

Jon: That is troubling news.  The Citadel would have been a valuable ally in mobilizing the people to defend the realm.  But since you are here, I know there was not anything further in the library that could have helped us.  I had been hoping for more ravens after receiving your note about the mines under Dragonstone.  Danaerys is working with us to mine the material as we speak.  That is just the sort of information I wanted you to find at the Citadel.  If only there had been more information about the White Walkers we could have used!  

Sam: Well, I did not quite make it through all of the books.  That would have taken a lifetime.  That library is huge!  

Jon: So you did not receive your chain and you did not complete your research on the White Walkers?   Were they denying you access to the library?  That would make your presence there rather pointless when we could use every sword available - nice sword by the way - in the North.

Sam: You like the sword? Thanks. I stole it from my ancestral home.  My dad is such a jerk!  Its Valyrian Steel.   Just thought I'd mention that in case it later becomes important.  

Jon: And I'll forget you told me that unless it becomes important down the road for some reason.  I am still confused about why you returned without completing your mission.  You say you took your father's sword, but why would you need to do that when you are the only living Tarly male after your father and brother died at the Blackwater Rush?  Did you leave after hearing the terrible news? I can understand the shock.  I was despondent after learning about my father's murder at the hands of the Lannisters.  But we must still do our duty.  Take a few days and then return to the Citadel to complete your assignment.

Sam: I am never going back there and you cannot make me! You should have seen how much stuff they wanted me to read! And then they had the nerve to make me transcribe a bunch of old scrolls so the information would not be lost.  Bunch of jerks!  And you are a jerk if you make me go! You are not my father!  And good thing that, since I might steal your sword if you were! Wait, my father and brother are dead?

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16 hours ago, The Onion Kniggit said:

10-30 fucking gold dragons to bribe two useless guards!?

Do recall Selwyn Tarth offered 300 dragons for Brienne which is meant to be a noblemen's ransom and Tywin put a 100 Stags bounty on the Hound AKA one of the most formidable and ruthless fighters in Westeros...

Either D&D forgot everything about currency(as they do with everything else) or Davos is one shit negotiator. 

Glad someone else mentioned this. It was ridiculous.Davos could have had a galley full of "crab viaga" and it wouldn't have fetched him 30 gold Stags.

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16 hours ago, Capo Ferro said:

 

But what journey is this story about?  There are different journeys that can be written about.  Is the journey that is being depicted here the hatching, raising and growth to maturity of dragons or is the journey the wrestling with how a revolutionary upends the established order without becoming what she seeks to overturn?  My point here is that this story is about the lattet -- it's about how Dany, given the power to destroy the Randall Tarlys and Cersei Lannisters of the world can do so without becoming a monster herself.  It's not a story of a young girls path on the road to becoming an assassin, it's the story of a young girl coming to understand how to separate reasonable reactions to conventions she bridles against (not becoming a kept seamstress for some Lord because that's what highborn ladies do) to unreasonable ones (cutting off the heads of people who insult her brother).

We see parts of the other journeys because they're fun to watch but they aren't the point of this show.  It has other axes to grind.

Its not that the Journey doesn't exist. You're correct about Dany's Arch or plotline. But, the show's producers directors and writers, have chosen to ignore the journey for expedience towards the destination. They have chosen to deviate from the characters norms or what drives them to get to the plot point by any means necessary.

Tyrion who's seen plenty death... people burned... all of a sudden is conflicted. While im sure he would have some conflicted feeling... to this level?! nooo and surely not stupid enough to try to sneak into kinglanding where anothe character deviation happens just so that the story moves to another plot point. Cersei should have and would have Killed Tyrion if she knew he was in KL. Both the books and show established that. But in order for the story to speed towards what the producers want, they forget the characters established disposition. (hope i said that correctly)

Very poor writing just to get to the exciting parts...

its all about the spectacle. Its like sitting and watching LOTR and fast forwarding to the action scenes and plot points. and then trying to understand the story... Thats not a good story. They even ignore the universe that was set up in the 1st season.

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i've been writing and deleting and re-writing and deleting posts all morning.  my thoughts are all over the map.  i can't keep one problem in my head long enough to write thoroughly and thoughtfully about it before the next problem draws my attention elsewhere.  i know where i want to get with these comments, but after writing 500+ words, i end up deleting the whole thing because of how defeated i feel.  

this show is garbage.  i don't know what else to say.  

my only hope now is that GRRM takes his name off the show.  this is not his story anymore, if it ever was.  D&D have proven themselves completely inept.  Without GRRM's work to hide behind, D&D's gross incompetency and negligence is on full display this season.  if i knew the show would get THIS bad, i would have preferred that it was cancelled by HBO after the Red Wedding.

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2 hours ago, Holly Macaroni said:

Similarly, I usually come here and post my rants and raves with a video (even though it's a video I myself have done).

With an episode so filled with plot holes, it's hard to chose on the ones to focus on.

Here's this week's recap:

 

That was really funny, congrats. I can not get tired of GOT parody videos. If you can understand Spanish, there is a guy who makes songs and videos about the show. Last one is really cool as well.

 

 

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42 minutes ago, Ser Didymus said:

i've been writing and deleting and re-writing and deleting posts all morning.  my thoughts are all over the map.  i can't keep one problem in my head long enough to write thoroughly and thoughtfully about it before the next problem draws my attention elsewhere.  i know where i want to get with these comments, but after writing 500+ words, i end up deleting the whole thing because of how defeated i feel.  

this show is garbage.  i don't know what else to say.  

my only hope now is that GRRM takes his name off the show.  this is not his story anymore, if it ever was.  D&D have proven themselves completely inept.  Without GRRM's work to hide behind, D&D's gross incompetency and negligence is on full display this season.  if i knew the show would get THIS bad, i would have preferred that it was cancelled by HBO after the Red Wedding.

How much was GRRM paid for the rights to the story?  Anyone know?

 

How much does a soul go for these days?

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1 minute ago, Illiterati said:

How much was GRRM paid for the rights to the story?  Anyone know?

 

How much does a soul go for these days?

I think the quote was, "HBO just dumps a truck load of money in my driveway." Or something like that. Obviously someone that knows better than me can give a better answer. Though that may have more to do with fan fiction, if memory serves...

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