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2 minutes ago, Risto said:

No, they are not. The dynasty they were sworn to, Baratheons, died with Tommen. None of them sworn allegiance to Cersei as the Queen, hence they are not traitors.

I'm talking about since the show's existence. Not just in this season. 

>.>

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6 minutes ago, Pandean said:

I don't think that the Reach men or any of them are traitors. They're defending their home against a foreign invader. Randyll Tarly, great prick that he is, made a lot of sense.

I don't think we can say that those who fight for the current Iron Throne are traitors. THEY are the ones defending their home from what they know to be a foreign invader.

The North are traitors. Olenna, Yara, Theon, the Sand Snakes, those guys are technically the traitors.

That doesn't mean they are the bad guys. But they technically are traitors.

Robb Stark WAS a traitor because he rebelled against the Iron Throne. Did he have good reason? Yes. But technically speaking; he rebelled against the Iron Throne and was proclaimed King. That is a traitor.

Even so, I think Dany is really going to need to learn how to deal with diplomacy and be a ruler because all I've seen in her whole tenure as a character was her showing brute force and power. It's really funny how people wax poetic about her kind heart and justice--and she believes her own propaganda. Dany is not inheritantly a better ruler. TBH, she's pretty awful at the entire thing.

I'm sorry, but just because your daddy sat on a throne doesn't mean that people who have never known you, have fought and served for their entire life in one country, who see you come in with a foreign army and burn people alive, will have any reason to fight for you.

 

They are not traitors because Cersei has no legitimacy, is a kinslayer and by murdering Tyrells in sept she broke feudal contract and deal with faith. If anybody who sits on Iron Throne could proclaim itself a ruler, then Moonboy could have became a king.

Edited by Bosfan

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I didn't like this episode much at all. Episode 1 I thought had strong writing, episode 2 and 3 was a drop off but I thought were competent episodes with some decent action and scenes, and 4 obviously ended strong and intensely. This one felt rushed and very flat. I'm hoping they've set up incredible plots and scenes and this was just an awkward stumbling block to get there but between the rapid fire hopping around, the main characters bumping into eachother non stop, and the kind of ridiculous plan they have it feels a little off. If the story plays out strongly then its the kind of episode that will in retrospect be fine, or if it is a mess will mark a decline.

 

While the winterfell story is weird, I do like the idea of Baelish recalculating to deal with the Starks, again if his plans prove interesting this is a cool setup. Why is the old letter Sansa wrote under duress relevant though?

 

More than anything this episode really set up the knights king being dealt with before cersei, with her being the final villain, or her pulling a mad king when they come to present proof. I did like the cersei being pregnant development, since it gives her something more to fight for. 

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2 minutes ago, Bosfan said:

They are not traitors because Cersei has no legitimacy, is a kinslayer and by murdering Tyrells in sept she broke feudal contract and deal with faith. If anybody who sits on Iron Throne could proclaim itself a ruler, then Moonboy could have became a king.

Again, I was talking about the entire series, not just season 7.

 

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3 minutes ago, Bosfan said:

They are not traitors because Cersei has no legitimacy, is a kinslayer and by murdering Tyrells in sept she broke feudal contract and deal with faith. If anybody who sits on Iron Throne could proclaim itself a ruler, then Moonboy could have became a king.

Er, you mean the Iron Throne could proclaim itself its own ruler? That's really cool!

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32 minutes ago, El Guapo said:

lol. Nothing Dany did equates to her being a mad queen. She executed two traitors after giving them a chance to not only bend the knee but take the black as well.

 

 

She did not give them a chance to take the black. You defend Dany like she's your mother. 

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27 minutes ago, WolfOfWinter said:

Get ready for endless "that's not how annulments work/Rhaegar was removed from the line of succession/Dany is still the rightful ruler" discussions, despite the show literally spelling it out for us.

Nah, the show is definitely going for the simple plot. Divorce and remarriage is legit for a Targ.

26 minutes ago, LyannaStargaryen said:

Yeah, at least in show universe, we should be tinfoil free from now on.

The show universe didn't introduce half the mechanism. E hasn't appeared. I don't think the books will be as simple as Sam finds scroll.

24 minutes ago, Pandean said:

I'm going to trust the Stark who knows how to rule, has been the glue that's trying to hold her family together since season 6, and isn't exhibiting signs of a sociopath.

Also, if she can detect lies so easily then why is she completely being flummoxed by Baelish?

Also, Arya mainly failed her FM training DUE to her emotions and judgement clouding everything. She's obviously not using any such non judgement-emotional calculations here.

I would not worry too much until the end. Arya might well know a little bit more about Littlefingers game than it seems.

15 minutes ago, Lady Snowsand said:

Remember the prophecy Cersei. You have had your three children. This one will not be born.

Or she isn't pregnant. Could be uterine cancer like Bloody Mary.

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6 minutes ago, Raksha 2014 said:

I had to giggle when Gendry pointed out that Jon is short; since Jon is actually half an inch taller than Gendry.  

Are you referring to actors or characters, because Joe Dempsie is two inches taller than Kit Harrington.  

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2 minutes ago, Snormund said:

She did not give them a chance to take the black. You defend Dany like she's your mother. 

 

She did give Lord Tarly a chance to take the black; he refused.  She didn't offer the chance to Dickon.

 

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Was anyone else pissed off that Sam was too self absorbed in his frustration that he didn't take notice that Rhaegar's marriage was annuled and another service was held in secret on Dorne? I sure hope lil Sam hung onto that book. 

To me, the Gendry reunion and Jon Targ confirmation were the best parts of the episode. All in all it was a great followup to s7e4. 

Jon can't get back to Winterfell soon enough. I want to see the Northern lords reaction when they find out the King in the North really is the king.

Side note: how will Ghost feel? :)

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3 minutes ago, Raksha 2014 said:

 

She did give Lord Tarly a chance to take the black; he refused.  She didn't offer the chance to Dickon.

 

If I am correct, Tyrion mentioned it but both Randyll and Dany said no?

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6 minutes ago, kevinbgwrites said:

More than anything this episode really set up the knights king being dealt with before cersei, with her being the final villain, or her pulling a mad king when they come to present proof. I did like the cersei being pregnant development, since it gives her something more to fight for. 

Yes, I had thought that the plot was going to be take out Cersei then deal with the Zombie threat. Looks like we are getting it the other way round.

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1 minute ago, Pandean said:

If I am correct, Tyrion mentioned it but both Randyll and Dany said no?

But she also did not want to kill him but he volunteered. I think she concluded that if his father was going to die, he will too.

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3 minutes ago, Dragons dance with Wolves said:

Was anyone else pissed off that Sam was too self absorbed in his frustration that he didn't take notice that Rhaegar's marriage was annuled and another service was held in secret on Dorne? I sure hope lil Sam hung onto that book. 

To me, the Gendry reunion and Jon Targ confirmation were the best parts of the episode. All in all it was a great followup to s7e4. 

Jon can't get back to Winterfell soon enough. I want to see the Northern lords reaction when they find out the King in the North really is the king.

Side note: how will Ghost feel? :)

I think it's been shown that powerful wargs can have more than one critter they can skinchange into, so Ghost will probably welcome his new skin-brother Rhaegar when he shows up.

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7 minutes ago, Snormund said:

She did not give them a chance to take the black. You defend Dany like she's your mother. 

Yes she did. Tyrion made the suggestion and Randyll Tarly flatly rejected it.

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Just now, El Guapo said:

Yes she did. Tyrion made the suggestion and Randyll Tarly flatly rejected it.

Didn't know Tyrion was the one giving the orders. 

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11 minutes ago, Bosfan said:

They are not traitors because Cersei has no legitimacy, is a kinslayer and by murdering Tyrells in sept she broke feudal contract and deal with faith. If anybody who sits on Iron Throne could proclaim itself a ruler, then Moonboy could have became a king.

That's literally how one becomes a king or queen.  You fight your way to the throne, claim it and defend the title. 

Thats exactly what Cersie did. She claimed it and she's holding it.  

So yes. If Moonboy sat upon the IT and was able to defend it from his challengers then yes, he would be King Moonboy. 

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2 minutes ago, Snormund said:

Didn't know Tyrion was the one giving the orders. 

He is the Hand of the Queen and Dany didn't object to his suggestion. Randyll on the hand rejected it.

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