its official

[VenezuelanLord]

It's official at least to us as an audience that Jon its indeed legitimate, the "Raggar" gilly learned about its Rhaegar (she's learning guys), now the fact that he was Rhaegar's son was known to most of us even before the reveal past season, but the issue about his legitimacy was still on the air.. Not only that but we have tangible proof too, the book its still on Sam's possession.. 

[JonSnowed]

Yep and there is zero doubt this is something they have from GRRM in my mind.  Whilst it's clearer this season they have been working on an rough outline there are several things that appear to come from George:

- Jon is the true heir.

- A Cersei and Euron alliance.

- Dany landing at Dragonstone.

- Stark reunion.

[RhaenysBee]

Yeah it's a shame we are in a soap opera and Sam happened to be not listening. 

In fact Sam is a pretty shit academic in this sense because he has an idea about what he is looking for and is blind to everything else of interest. 

[Stormourne]

4 minutes ago, RhaenysB said:

Yeah it's a shame we are in a soap opera and Sam happened to be not listening. 

In fact Sam is a pretty shit academic in this sense because he has an idea about what he is looking for and is blind to everything else of interest. 

Sam heard her, but it was useless information to him. For one, he doesn't know that Jon is Rhaegar's son, and two, he was upset at the maesters screwing him over. Once Bran tells everyone Jon is Rhaegar's son, they will need proof, or no one would believe them. Then Sam or Gilly will hear this,and bam, here is the proof

[RhaenysBee]

9 minutes ago, Dawn of Fyre said:

Sam heard her, but it was useless information to him. For one, he doesn't know that Jon is Rhaegar's son, and two, he was upset at the maesters screwing him over. Once Bran tells everyone Jon is Rhaegar's son, they will need proof, or no one would believe them. Then Sam or Gilly will hear this,and bam, here is the proof

If they remember. Sam didn't remember that Stannis had told him years ago there's dragonglass on dragonstone. 

[anjulibai]

Sam knew Aemon Targaryen. He knows the history of the Seven Kingdoms and he knows the role Rhaegar Targaryen played. 

You'd think he'd perk up at the mention of Rhaegar's name. 

[Stormourne]

8 minutes ago, RhaenysB said:

If they remember. Sam didn't remember that Stannis had told him years ago there's dragonglass on dragonstone. 

For the plot to continue, they will remember, they even brought the book with them. That will be enough proof to show that Jon is the rightful Heir to the Iron Throne (although technically, neither Dany or Jon are since they haven't conquered King's Landing yet). Remember that thrones are won through conquest. Technically, the Targaryen Dynasty fell the moment Robert was declared king. Although, they could make the case that since Robert's grandmother or great grandmother was Targaryen, the Targaryen's so still have a legitimate claim. I don't know how Jon would react to the news, since he just learned that Gendry is alive and a bastard of Robert. I doubt Gendry would want to the throne, not that he would be able to get it. No lord would support him since he is an unknown with no proof of his heritage save looks and ability with a hammer.

This revelation will cause conflict between Dany and Jon, which might be resolved when Tyrion/Varys mentions the potential for marriage, which would avert a civil war, not that Jon would want the throne, mind you. But with him as King, the North would accept being unified with the south once more. What better way to unite Westeros than a Stark/Targaryen Dynasty ;DDDDDD

[Fexyr]

He wasn't paying Gilly attention. The infos she was reading wasn't of much importance... 15,000 steps? And he was mad. Probably he was thinking who the hell is Rhaggar, and didn't bother to actually listen to her.

My bet is that, in due time, Gilly will remember when someone mention 'Rhaegar' and she will be like ''Wait it's Rhaegar, not Rhaggar? ''

[VenezuelanLord]

Yeah, i dont know ifnoeople has noticed but they are referencing the tourney at harrenhall, at least on the scenes of the brotherhood, first we got beric telling the hound that they met for the first time in "that tourney" now , you may think its the tourney Robert threw for Ned when he arrived at the capital, but by that time im sure the hound and beric had knew each other for a while, in yesterday's episode is referenced when Jorah talks to thoros, now youre sure they have met before, at least the man old enough to have been present during RR

[pinoyathletics]

The Maester in the book also catalogued his own bowl movements.,

[Panther2000]

Yeah, it if Official ( Show Wise).  But, I can bet there are those who will still say that that D & D are making this up.   Which, Still might be true to a point.  But  D & D said, that GRRM told them the end to the story.  And, they said that they may take a different route but the ending will be the same.    It Figures that it would be Gilly that would give us this very important info.

[xander_blackfyre]

I cant blame Sam we have all been where he was mad at something else and people have dropped some knowledge on us we hear them but we are not really listening and it hits later on.  I am guessing it will happen when Sam is at Winterfell, someone is going to mention the name Lyanna perhaps Bran and Gilly will ask is she the one that Prince Rhaggar married in Dorne?   

At least it finally answers why 3 members of the Kingsguard stayed behind at the Tower of Joy, they were not hold her hostage but rather they were protecting the new Princess of Dragonstone and her unborn child who would be heir to the Iron throne.

 

 

[I prefer summer]

20 hours ago, Dawn of Fyre said:

Sam heard her, but it was useless information to him. For one, he doesn't know that Jon is Rhaegar's son, and two, he was upset at the maesters screwing him over. Once Bran tells everyone Jon is Rhaegar's son, they will need proof, or no one would believe them. Then Sam or Gilly will hear this,and bam, here is the proof

Actually, it isn't proof about Jon being R and L's son. It isn't even proof that there was a child. Only a wedding. So, either people need to accept Bran's visions on faith, or Meera need to bring her father back as an eye witness. I can't believe that there will be ANY written evidence about Jon's birth, as the whole idea was to hide the knowledge from Robert.

And really, even an eye-witness account isn't proof; it's just evidence.

[I prefer summer]

I read on another thread in this forum (sorry, can't remember which) than Aerys had disinherited Rhaegar's family. Is that true? If so, it puts a monkey wrench into any claim Jon might have.

[Mikkel]

 

21 hours ago, JonSnowed said:

Yep and there is zero doubt this is something they have from GRRM in my mind.

I am not at all sure Jon being legitimate comes from GRRM, or at the very least if it does, Rhaegar probably didn't just "get an annulment". The show has diverted majorly from the books at this point, so it's certainly possible that this is just another case of the show simplifying the storyline.

[Illiterati]

20 hours ago, RhaenysB said:

Yeah it's a shame we are in a soap opera and Sam happened to be not listening. 

In fact Sam is a pretty shit academic in this sense because he has an idea about what he is looking for and is blind to everything else of interest. 

That is actually the mark of a good academic.  Not knowing r+l=j, this info means nothing to him.  A good academic has a laser focus on the study at hand, in this case how to defeat the Wight  Walkers.  Bear in mind that he also cured stoneman and persuaded grandmaester that the wights are something to be investigated, even if grandmaester was too arrogant to take heed.

 

Academics isn't magically knowing everything about everything.  It's learning all possible about a thing.  I dare say his mission was more noble than finding out who Jon Snow is.

[Attitude]

I posted a similar topic yesterday, but somehow it was rejected?

Anyway; yeah even though people might not like how it has happened (the annulment), Jon is official, so his claim is better than Dany's. Dany will bend the knee. 

[HTN02]

19 hours ago, VenezuelanLord said:

Yeah, i dont know ifnoeople has noticed but they are referencing the tourney at harrenhall, at least on the scenes of the brotherhood, first we got beric telling the hound that they met for the first time in "that tourney" now , you may think its the tourney Robert threw for Ned when he arrived at the capital, but by that time im sure the hound and beric had knew each other for a while, in yesterday's episode is referenced when Jorah talks to thoros, now youre sure they have met before, at least the man old enough to have been present during RR

During the siege on pyke, Jorah was second trough the breach. he got knighted for that. first trough the breach was Thoros...

its reasonable to assume they met, as they at least fought side by side :-)

[Illiterati]

12 minutes ago, Attitude said:

I posted a similar topic yesterday, but somehow it was rejected?

Anyway; yeah even though people might not like how it has happened (the annulment), Jon is official, so his claim is better than Dany's. Dany will bend the knee. 

Oh Dany will bend the knee, but not in regard to fealty.

[Stormourne]

42 minutes ago, I prefer summer said:

Actually, it isn't proof about Jon being R and L's son. It isn't even proof that there was a child. Only a wedding. So, either people need to accept Bran's visions on faith, or Meera need to bring her father back as an eye witness. I can't believe that there will be ANY written evidence about Jon's birth, as the whole idea was to hide the knowledge from Robert.

And really, even an eye-witness account isn't proof; it's just evidence.

The book is proof, though. Remember that Sam cut her off before she could finish talking. So the maester must have written down who he remarried, and potentially Jon's true name Bran will inform Jon of his heritage, Sam/Gilly will confirm it through unquestionable proof so Westeros will believe him, especially Dany.

Also from a plot-point-of-view, they did try to justify it in saying that Maester had a OCD about writting everything down, including his bowl movements, haha. So, in a sense, it makes sense in that context.