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Jcat

A Wight for Cersei? Seriously?

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On ‎15‎/‎08‎/‎2017 at 9:22 AM, ummester said:

Is the Wight for Cerise a worse plot development/more jumping the shark than Arya's training resolution with the unstab, undeath and un-no-one? And, are either worse than the Sandsnakes?

These 3 things - Sandsakes fight scene, Cersie Wights and Jaquen accepting Arya as being no-one are the 3 times I believe I have ranked episodes less than 6. I cannot work out which is the worst?

Yes, it is. It's hard to say this, but there are worst plots than those AWFUL ones. A wight for Cersei

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On ‎15‎/‎08‎/‎2017 at 8:19 PM, Jcat said:

.And here is another question: can Bran not foresee what Jon and company intend to do?  If so why can't he do a Raven reconnaissance to find some Wight stragglers that could be easily captured or better yet tell Jon not to follow this ridiculous plan!  There would be plenty of time for a Raven to reach Eastwatch before Jon's ship arrives.

That would mean they would be using the main POV Character Bran as an important player, just like Jon. That's not possible. The hero is Jon-

They would have to think of Bran, and they don't care about him- Jon has other priorities.

On ‎15‎/‎08‎/‎2017 at 7:18 PM, mcbrigno said:

.So, please, all of you complainers who think you know what the show SHOULD DO instead--please, explain what you think would be a better idea that ACTUALLY MAKES SENSE given all the circumstances since this idea is apparently the "stupidest thing the show has ever done." Again, it's not the best idea, but they don't have much choice BEFORE IT'S TOO LATE. Who is to say that they didn't get this idea from GRRM? Until someone confirms or denies, no one can say otherwise. Regardless, I can't wait for next week's episode and to see how it all unfolds.

The flames!!!!

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6 hours ago, LoneWolfOfWinterfell said:

I just want to know why she needs convincing that things like this exist when she has Frankenstein Mountain guarding her already? I think she would need convincing that there is an army of them and that it is an actual threat to her personally. She is so far gone and wants to "die fighting" so she might not care. Let another army take out her enemies. I'm just not sure there is any way she will voluntarily join forces with Dany.

Let's not forget that they don't need a dozen of Lannister soldiers for the Great War. They just roasted the rest.

FrankenGregor will play with the wight, it's a gift for Cersei, she will give it to him.

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On 8/15/2017 at 10:18 AM, mcbrigno said:

So, please, all of you complainers who think you know what the show SHOULD DO instead--please, explain what you think would be a better idea that ACTUALLY MAKES SENSE given all the circumstances since this idea is apparently the "stupidest thing the show has ever done." Again, it's not the best idea, but they don't have much choice BEFORE IT'S TOO LATE. Who is to say that they didn't get this idea from GRRM? Until someone confirms or denies, no one can say otherwise. Regardless, I can't wait for next week's episode and to see how it all unfolds.

Just so it's clear, GoT is a fictional work.  A story.  Written by writers.  If there is no other choice than a really juvenile idea BEFORE IT'S TOO LATE, then the WRITERS have created the emergency.  Lack of effective timelining by the writers doesn't forgive a clumsy plot fix.

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1 hour ago, Deminelle said:

Why is everybody now willing to follow Tyrion's plan when only recently it was stated that he has failed in all previous ones? 

A bad plan is better than no plan?

That's all I got.

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2 hours ago, Illiterati said:

Just so it's clear, GoT is a fictional work.  A story.  Written by writers.  If there is no other choice than a really juvenile idea BEFORE IT'S TOO LATE, then the WRITERS have created the emergency.  Lack of effective timelining by the writers doesn't forgive a clumsy plot fix.

Yes I said something similar a ways back on this thread.  Writers aren't lab rats that get stuck in a maze and only have a single option.  The writers design the maze.  If the story gets to where only an implausible idea will work to move things forward, then the writers screwed-up plain and simple.

1 hour ago, Lord Okra said:

A bad plan is better than no plan?

That's all I got.

Sometimes it's the reverse...no plan is better than a bad plan.

2 hours ago, Pandean said:

A wight for Cersei, Springtime for Hitler, same same

Yes and how appropriate or rather inappropriate both events occured on the same weekend.

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17 hours ago, Meera of Tarth said:

Yes, it is. It's hard to say this, but there are worst plots than those AWFUL ones. A wight for Cersei

I know a lot of people hated Sansa's changes but I thought they made her story more interesting than in the books - it is stupid she forgave LF so easily though.

Meh, I dunno, this show has kind of gone to shit. And seeing I don't have much hope for the books being finished, it seems the whole story has.

I'm going to keep watching, only because I hope my main man the Night King rids Westeros of all the atrocious characters that now inhabit it. If his wight army saves Westeros from the ridiculous mess it has become, I may feel a small sense of satisfaction.

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On 8/15/2017 at 10:18 AM, mcbrigno said:

So, please, all of you complainers who think you know what the show SHOULD DO instead--please, explain what you think would be a better idea that ACTUALLY MAKES SENSE given all the circumstances

What they should do is something that actually affects those circumstances, and attempts to solve the actual problems preventing an armistice and joint fight.

Bringing a wight does nothing. Both Dany and Cersei believe the threat is real and must be fought. Showing them a wight only solves problems that don't exist in the first place.

What are the actual problems?

1. Cersei (thinks she) can just let Dany and Jon fight the Night King, while she rebuilds her army and strengthens her position and can then just fight whichever side wins that Great War.

The solution here is to lay out the strategic situation. Cersei is unmistakably getting the better deal in the armistice. Dany is giving up the momentum in the war; Dany is risking her entire army while Cersei is risking only the Lannister remnants, while Cersei gets time to use her gold to rebuild her army; both sides get nice PR by saving the realm, but Cersei clearly gets more by being the queen sitting on the throne while they do it; etc. If Cersei can't see that, then frankly she's so insane that Dany is right, and they do have to take Cersei out before they can fight the Night King.

2. Neither queen trusts the other. Dany quite reasonably fears that if she takes her army and dragons north, Cersei will take advantage of that. Cersei may well think that Dany will stab her in the back if they sign an armistice (because that's what she'd do in Dany's position).

Solution: hostage exchange, Jaime for Viserion. Maybe you can't trust either Dany or Cersei to treat traditions based on millennia-old taboos as sacrosanct, you can trust Dany not to sacrifice her beloved baby and WMD, especially when her identity is heavily tied up in being Mother of Dragons, and you can trust Cersei not to sacrifice her beloved brother and baby-daddy, especially when her identity is heavily tied up in being Fucker of Brother Who's Bad-Ass Enough to Get Away With It. Sure, having one of their better generals and one of their three dragons sit out the Great War isn't ideal, but it's worth it to keep both sides on the field together.

What makes this so frustrating is that if they really did want to write in a wight hunt, they could have done it a few episodes earlier, when the problem Jon was unaccountably stuck on was convincing Dany that he isn't some crazy person who believes an 8000-year-old fairy tale for no reason, so a wight would have actually solved the problem at hand.

 

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4 hours ago, ummester said:

I know a lot of people hated Sansa's changes but I thought they made her story more interesting than in the books - it is stupid she forgave LF so easily though.

Meh, I dunno, this show has kind of gone to shit. And seeing I don't have much hope for the books being finished, it seems the whole story has.

I'm going to keep watching, only because I hope my main man the Night King rids Westeros of all the atrocious characters that now inhabit it. If his wight army saves Westeros from the ridiculous mess it has become, I may feel a small sense of satisfaction.

I'm also of the ones who think Sansa's story in WF is a major failure since it showed how much their disrespect her character. Sansa is not of my top favourites, but as a STark, I like her, and seeing how she was raped instead  of Jeyne Poole (and I'd not have liked it either but at least they would be adapting the books) made me feel it was nauseating.

But I still think that in terms of plot, the wight hunt for Cersei is the most stupid plot they have ever created, by far, because it involves almost all the characters and there ar no wordsto desribe the levels of stupidity it involves: from the idea, that you don't need the Lannisters (they are roasted), the suicidal mission, not even having weapons, thinking that Cersei will listen to them, it's just EXTREMELEY DUMB. Sansa and Jaime's (along with Bran, Stannis) are examples of the greatest destructions of characters.

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4 hours ago, ummester said:

I'm going to keep watching, only because I hope my main man the Night King rids Westeros of all the atrocious characters that now inhabit it. If his wight army saves Westeros from the ridiculous mess it has become, I may feel a small sense of satisfaction.

Here's how it all ends:

Jaime kills Cersei, then sits on the throne to wait for whoever comes to claim the throne. But since almost everyone in Westeros is dead from starvation or plague, and even the Night King is slowed down (sure, he's got no significant opposition, but it takes a long time to animate millions of corpses), he starves long before anyone shows up. So the Night King animates Jaime as a wight, who gets up and offers him the throne the same way he did to Robert.

Over in Essos—where it turns out that the Long Night isn't much worse than the European "Little Ice Age"—there's a generation or two of adjustment and migration (Dragon's Bay being hit especially bad, because Dany's council were too busy trying to invent democracy from first principles to grow any food), but they've got plenty of land that's still livable, especially now that the Dothraki are no longer around making 60% of a continent unusable. And the Night King is actually pretty easy to trade with; the cultures that insist on sticking to cremation/burial/exposure instead of trading their corpses for Westerosi goods are quickly outcompeted. Soon, the cultures of Far East Essos are competing to discover a sea route to Westeros from the other side, which leads to a technological/exploration boom, and the world is on track for the equivalent of the Renaissance. And everyone lives reasonably happily ever after, except for the usual problems with people being people. All thanks to the Night King.

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Talking about this plan really misses one of the great problems with this season:

Why are they even trying to get a truce with Cersei to begin with?

There are just so many logical inconsistencies that it's impossible to list them all. The plot is, essentially, completely lost; there is no way to fix it because the world's internal logic has been abandoned.

I mean, jeez. It's a feudal culture, but the king in the north and the last Targaryan aren't getting married to shore up an alliance. Even though they both have more men than Cersei and 3 full grown dragons, they are just happy to let her sit in King's Landing.

But, nah, give the show another emmy for writing.

SMH

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6 minutes ago, Mikeygigs said:

Talking about this plan really misses one of the great problems with this season:

Why are they even trying to get a truce with Cersei to begin with?

There are just so many logical inconsistencies that it's impossible to list them all. The plot is, essentially, completely lost; there is no way to fix it because the world's internal logic has been abandoned.

I mean, jeez. It's a feudal culture, but the king in the north and the last Targaryan aren't getting married to shore up an alliance. Even though they both have more men than Cersei and 3 full grown dragons, they are just happy to let her sit in King's Landing.

But, nah, give the show another emmy for writing.

SMH

Yeah, it's hard to get over the level of stupidity of anyone trying to appease Cersei, since it's an absolute fallacy that Dany could not take King's Landing other than a siege that kills thousands.  There is no reason in the world why anyone, including Lannister bannermen are still loyal to her.  KL should be in a constant state of rioting.  All Dany would have to do is fly up:  announce to the city to send out the queen and surrender, and everyone gets amnesty or she's going to burn down the Red Keep.  It's done.

The Cersei story is just stupidity piled on top of stupidity.  She is still in power.  No one is rebelling against her despite having blown up the most holy religious site in the country, and killing the queen, and being a kin slayer.  And her own fucking brother suddenly trusts her.  It's all insane.  So the magnificent seven suicide squad risking their lives to get her and her non existent army that Dany already destroyed is par for the course.

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On ‎14‎.‎08‎.‎2017 at 4:29 AM, Jcat said:

Something incredible happened tonight a show I have loved and followed for seven seasons just crapped all over itself.  Or should I say D & D just crapped all over it.  The scheme Tyrion proposes for Jon and crew to go to Eastwatch, and get a Wight as a showroom model to convince Cersei to at least grant a temporary armistice--is colossally stupid!  The show runners have ruined Tyrion.  

Does Tyrion not know his sister by now?  Even if they get a sample, can they preserve it long enough to get it down south?  Would Cersei even believe this is what Tyrion and others claim it to be, and not some alchemist's trick?  And even if he could convince her she is as likely to make an alliance with the Night King as she is Daenerys.  Cersei has no scruples.

I have never been so disappointed in any TV show I have followed as I am tonight.

Exactly, she has an undead knight as her champion right now.

Plus, wasn't Tyrion on the receiving end of such presentation back in the series, with a right's hand? If I recall correctly, he dismissed it for petty reasons, made the guy wait and the hand decomposed.

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On 8/14/2017 at 6:14 AM, Edward Teach said:

And that's not all, the dumbest part is that the expedition party consists of seven people who go beyond the wall by foot and with no horses! Do they realize they're going to confront a hoard of hundreds of zombies? How the fuck do they expect to survive that?

 

This whole development of the plot is mind-blowingly stupid.

They'd probably be better off with hats in that weather too. They're all so lucky their moms have no idea.

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1 hour ago, RobertOfTheHouseBaratheon said:

Just to ask a silly question. They are definately going to capture a Wight & not a Walker?

A Walker would prove there is this monster alien race, a Wight is just a re-animated dead guy. Cersei would just say, yeah i got me one of those too.

Have to think it's a lot easier to capture a Wight, than a White Walker.  First of all how would you be able to restrain one given their superior strength?  And aren't all the White Walkers telepathically linked somehow?  If so it would make it doubly hard to get back south of the Wall to safely.

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On 8/14/2017 at 5:00 PM, RhaenysB said:

Yeah, I watched pretty little liars too. And at this point that's almost the same category.

Ouch sick burn

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24 minutes ago, Jcat said:

Have to think it's a lot easier to capture a Wight, than a White Walker.  First of all how would you be able to restrain one given their superior strength?  And aren't all the White Walkers telepathically linked somehow?  If so it would make it doubly hard to get back south of the Wall to safely.

I think the NK controls the WW and the WW control the wights in turn.  Kind of like a computer server hierarchy.  

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