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Joshy

Littlefinger's Game

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1 hour ago, Nerevanin said:

 

I don't think so. My theory is that (under condition that we accept that the letter is a trap) LF, if asked about it, will say that he wanted to destroy the letter because it was showing Sansa in a bad light, as someone who betrayed her family, or because it was practically a fake letter and a reminder of Sansa being hostage in KL. So he wanted to destroy it for Sansa good, so that she won't be blamed for something that isn't true in the future.

 

 

That is a good one. It suits him better than running around telling everyone the great truth he discovered. It also explains Maester Wolkan's servility to LF, and the latter thanking him in Sansa's name. 

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5 hours ago, Illiterati said:

I read that as part of their game.  They acted it out for the chambermaid's ear.  The chambermaid sold what she heard to LF.  I took everything as choreographed.  LF is going to be defeated at his own game.

This is my thought, as well. If they have Arya go through all this training just to be duped by Littlefinger, that's terrible writing and ignores her character arc completely. She picked that fight with Sansa so Littlefinger would find out about it. She's baiting him.

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I think Littlefinger’s ultimate goal in this ploy is to get rid of Arya, though I am not quite sure yet as to the details.  He is clearly honing in on the tense relationship that the sister’s share to pit them against each other.  My guess is he is trying to make Arya think that Sansa is betraying Jon and thus have Arya try to assassinate Sansa. 

Natural he will predict and prevent any such attempts but it will be just one more thing Sansa will owe him for.  With it all being decisions Arya came to on her own there will be no way to trace it back to Littlefinger. 

And ultimately I think it will result in Arya’s death.  It just seems like her trying to outmaneuver Littlefinger is going to get her killed if she doesn’t have back up.  But I don’t see Sansa being in on this (if she wanted to move against Littlefinger she has the ammunition to do so) and Bran is more concerned with the white walkers than politics.

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Arya is gaming Little Finger who thinks he is gaming Arya but he has for the first time (second if you count the Bolton marriage) utterly miscalculated. 

She is not Arya. 

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2 hours ago, Nerevanin said:

 

I don't think so. My theory is that (under condition that we accept that the letter is a trap) LF, if asked about it, will say that he wanted to destroy the letter because it was showing Sansa in a bad light, as someone who betrayed her family, or because it was practically a fake letter and a reminder of Sansa being hostage in KL. So he wanted to destroy it for Sansa good, so that she won't be blamed for something that isn't true in the future.

Yes thats what he will say if he is questioned, but thats not his real purpose. His scheme was exactly what we saw happen with Arya finding etc. This only provides fuel for what Arya is already thinking.

2 hours ago, Nerevanin said:

 

I don't think that there is anything to be done with it. All she can do is to say to Sansa that LF sneaks around WF (everybody knows this including Sansa) and that he took the only copy of this letter, however there is nothing important or revealing. Sansa will probably fight with Arya and will blame her for trying to make her and her advisor fall apart. See my reply above to The Sunland Lord.

Yes there is, Arya has found it. It confirms in Aryas already suspicious mind what she is thinking about Sansa. LF paid the woman we see to spy on Arya and Sansa most likely. All LF needs to do is give something to Arya to unleash the anger in Arya and confirm to Sansa how dangerous she is. LF I assume will want Sansa then to turn to her. thus getting rid of Arya.

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20 minutes ago, Bran the Shipper said:

I think Littlefinger’s ultimate goal in this ploy is to get rid of Arya, though I am not quite sure yet as to the details.  He is clearly honing in on the tense relationship that the sister’s share to pit them against each other.  My guess is he is trying to make Arya think that Sansa is betraying Jon and thus have Arya try to assassinate Sansa. 

Natural he will predict and prevent any such attempts but it will be just one more thing Sansa will owe him for.  With it all being decisions Arya came to on her own there will be no way to trace it back to Littlefinger. 

Agreed, as ive just wrote so badly...haha

20 minutes ago, Bran the Shipper said:

And ultimately I think it will result in Arya’s death.  It just seems like her trying to outmaneuver Littlefinger is going to get her killed if she doesn’t have back up.  But I don’t see Sansa being in on this (if she wanted to move against Littlefinger she has the ammunition to do so) and Bran is more concerned with the white walkers than politics.

Unfortunately I disagree, if Arya wasnt given the dagger I would have a tendancy to agree it may be Aryas downfall. The dagger is far to important for Arya to be killed and it given to someone else. It also would be very poetic if Arya killed him with his own dagger, which I believe will happen. 

Drama is being placed where drama doesnt need to be as nothing is going to come of it. LF plan is clear, to divide the Stark sisters, having Arya in a nutshell try kill Sansa thus being killed herself. I believe Bran is the only person who can step in and stop this revealing LF's past and true motives etc. Im prety sure Brans ''Chaos is a ladder'' to LF revealed LF's death.

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I agree that Sansa isn't in on it.  This is all Arya.  It occurred to me when I rewatched that she's being very clear, pointed, and unemotional about her accusations and Sansa is reacting very emotionally.  Arya and Arya alone is setting up LF, and the result will be glorious.  This won't end with Arya's death, but in fact in LF's with Sansa's blessing.

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40 minutes ago, Daemos said:

Arya is gaming Little Finger who thinks he is gaming Arya but he has for the first time (second if you count the Bolton marriage) utterly miscalculated. 

She is not Arya. 

No. LF is gaming Arya. he set a trap and she fell into it.

This is what Weiss said in inside the episode:

“Arya is very used to being more clever and more stealthy, and smarter than any of the people she’s up against, but she hasn’t dealt with Littlefinger for a while. She gets roped into spying on somebody who's actually leading her by the nose to something that he wants her to have.

He’s looking for a way to prevent this sister bond from developing further because the tighter they are the more definitively he is caught on the outside of it. On the Sansa end of the relationship he’s seen the opening and now all he needs to do is give Arya a cause to display real rage towards Sansa. And, he knows full well that with what’s going on in Sansa’s head with regards to Arya and how dangerous she is, when Arya starts to act dangerous, and act angry, he knows where Sansa is going to turn.”

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3 minutes ago, winter daughter said:

No. LF is gaming Arya. he set a trap and she fell into it.

This is what Weiss said in inside the episode:

“Arya is very used to being more clever and more stealthy, and smarter than any of the people she’s up against, but she hasn’t dealt with Littlefinger for a while. She gets roped into spying on somebody who's actually leading her by the nose to something that he wants her to have.

He’s looking for a way to prevent this sister bond from developing further because the tighter they are the more definitively he is caught on the outside of it. On the Sansa end of the relationship he’s seen the opening and now all he needs to do is give Arya a cause to display real rage towards Sansa. And, he knows full well that with what’s going on in Sansa’s head with regards to Arya and how dangerous she is, when Arya starts to act dangerous, and act angry, he knows where Sansa is going to turn.”

So you don't think D&D are capable of misdirection in both script and interviews?

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9 minutes ago, Illiterati said:

So you don't think D&D are capable of misdirection in both script and interviews?

Either way, LF is going to be killed. I think it would clever but I think its better LF nearly succeeds and we see some Arya/Sansa bust up or confrontation.

And to answer your question I personally think no.

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59 minutes ago, Illiterati said:

So you don't think D&D are capable of misdirection in both script and interviews?

They are capable of it. but I don't think Weiss is trying to mislead us in this interview. he is explaining the situation and LF's motivation.

It seems like you want Arya to not make any mistakes and always be the smart one. but this is GOT and even the smartest characters make mistakes.

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I don't know who is playing who at this point, but I predict that:

1) Littlefinger will finally find this the one plot he has miscalculated, and will get himself killed in the final episode. He is just no longer needed for the story, and I don't think 6 episodes in the final season are enough to deal with a rift in the Stark sisters.

2) The two sisters, though they have their differences, will stick by each other, and somebody will say the line: 'Our father always told us, when the winter comes, the lone wolf dies, but the pack survives'.

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14 minutes ago, winter daughter said:

They are capable of it. but I don't think Weiss is trying to mislead us in this interview. he is explaining the situation and LF's motivation.

It seems like you want Arya to not make any mistakes and always be the smart one. but this is GOT and even the smartest characters make mistakes.

First, we don't even know if this is Arya or the waif wearing her face.  I'm not a particular fanboy.  I'm just following the logical trail of her having the convo in the chambers and then watching LF bribe the chambermaid.  Your comment about Weiss is valid.  He could be giving LF's perspective in the interview, completely ignoring Arya's.

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1 hour ago, Samwell_Tarly said:

Either way, LF is going to be killed. I think it would clever but I think its better LF nearly succeeds and we see some Arya/Sansa bust up or confrontation.

I'm not so sure that LF is going to be killed by anyone. If it hasn't already happened, then the only person who would be rash enough to kill him is Arya, and she is clearly being out maneuvered. I've said for years that Littlefinger is the most dangerous person in Westeros.

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13 minutes ago, Joshy said:

I'm not so sure that LF is going to be killed by anyone. If it hasn't already happened, then the only person who would be rash enough to kill him is Arya, and she is clearly being out maneuvered. I've said for years that Littlefinger is the most dangerous person in Westeros.

I dont disagree that he probably is one, if not the most dangerous person in westeros, but his time is up. Brans mention of ''chaos is a ladder'' to LF would not have been said if it was not going to be relevant to his downfall. It basically says to LF i know what you have done and can see what your doing. This is his final plot and scheme which will fail. It will partly work and divide Arya/Sansa but Bran will step in playing his part and ultimately Arya will kill LF at Sansas command/consent.

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What I can't make sense of in this game is that she has at least one anonymous face, the one she used to serve Frey, and she doesn't use it to spy on Pete.  Why hide in shadows when you are faceless?

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1 hour ago, Illiterati said:

What I can't make sense of in this game is that she has at least one anonymous face, the one she used to serve Frey, and she doesn't use it to spy on Pete.  Why hide in shadows when you are faceless?

Horrible writing.

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After rewatching the scene, I wonder if LF was really trying to manipulate Arya, or whether he was just trying to find out who is spying on him. Or if he just thought that the person is probably someone important and / or close to Sansa if the person cares to follow him around Winterfell, so he wanted to both identify the person and create discontent between the person and Sansa...

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Just now, Nerevanin said:

After rewatching the scene, I wonder if LF was really trying to manipulate Arya, or whether he was just trying to find out who is spying on him. Or if he just thought that the person is probably someone important and / or close to Sansa if the person cares to follow him around Winterfell, so he wanted to both identify the person and create discontent between the person and Sansa...

It was clear to me by the contents of the scroll that he meant Arya to find it.

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I want Littlefinger to succeed in finally destroying the Starks, including Jon Snow.  That will complete his accomplishments.  He already nearly destroyed the Arryns, Baratheons, and Tullys.  Add the Starks to the list of Littlefinger's victims.  Honestly, I would be disappointed if the trouble between Sansa and Arya turn out to be nothing more than two high school girls having a spat. 

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