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Joshy

Littlefinger's Game

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13 minutes ago, ImNoSer said:

Not if they mentioned that the faceless men have to become other people, and live there lives as if they were that person as part of there training like in the books.

The waif having to live as arya would be the final part of her training.

the waifs death happened off screen it was pitch black, arya was badly wounded and stood little chance. Rewatch the bravoos bits with arya/jaqen/waif again and you will see this isnt a tin foil hat theory. Although it is unlikely. The games they played on arya would suffice to learn all about her past, people she knew, and who she was as a person.

Why would arya become "no one" as jaqen said when she becomes arya again? Unless the waif killed arya, then sacrificed her old face to the hall of faces, to complete her training by taking on a new identity as arya stark, and as part of that identity you would have to live as if you are arya. So the new arya we see now is the waif's interpretation of what arya stark was like and what she would do. Hence why nymeria did not fully recognize arya.

on top of this the way arya talks, her voice, her mannerisms, seem alot different then the arya before the scene with the candle and needle supposedly killing the waif.

Right so if the Waif is Arya, whats the plot line thats going to make sense?

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6 hours ago, Samwell_Tarly said:

Right so if the Waif is Arya, whats the plot line thats going to make sense?

 

7 hours ago, ImNoSer said:

Not if they mentioned that the faceless men have to become other people, and live there lives as if they were that person as part of there training like in the books.

The waif having to live as arya would be the final part of her training.

the waifs death happened off screen it was pitch black, arya was badly wounded and stood little chance. Rewatch the bravoos bits with arya/jaqen/waif again and you will see this isnt a tin foil hat theory. Although it is unlikely. The games they played on arya would suffice to learn all about her past, people she knew, and who she was as a person.

Why would arya become "no one" as jaqen said when she becomes arya again? Unless the waif killed arya, then sacrificed her old face to the hall of faces, to complete her training by taking on a new identity as arya stark, and as part of that identity you would have to live as if you are arya. So the new arya we see now is the waif's interpretation of what arya stark was like and what she would do. Hence why nymeria did not fully recognize arya.

on top of this the way arya talks, her voice, her mannerisms, seem alot different then the arya before the scene with the candle and needle supposedly killing the waif.

First of all we need to establish what the faceless mens goals are.

Valar Morghulis - Valar Dohaeris 

All men must die - All men must serve.

Everyone must die eventually but all men must serve. And who doesn't serve? Lords and Kings etc.

 

Cercie: You are to kind my Lord.

Bravoosie Banker: I'm neither kind nor am I a lord. 

 

Who does Arya kill at the Crossing? 

all Male heirs to the crossing.

 

In short the Faceless men want to free all men from aristocracy, by killing all lords and kings.

 

 

which gives us a couple of options for the plot.

1. killing Sansa

2. killing Heirs to the houses of the north which are happen to be in Winterfell

3. killing some heirs to houses of the Erie 

4. killing the king in the North

5.Killing the lord paramour to Harrenhall and the Erie, which might be a Faceless men himself. (wait and see)

 

This post is free of facts and is full of opinion, feel free to disagree. 

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15 hours ago, Illiterati said:

This is a very important observation.  I questioned before why an FM would spy on someone while wearing her true face.  The obvious answer would be that she WANTS to be seen spying on him.  More fuel for the Arya is playing LF playing Arya theory.

Yes, but unfortunately I believe that it is just bad writing.

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7 hours ago, ImNoSer said:

waif isnt arya. but im saying they couldve done it that way and it would be a good twist.

How and why? And how would it be a good twist it would a shock but when the shock factor disappears and you think about it logially it would the most ridiculous and stupidest plot line.

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1 hour ago, Northern_Star said:

 

First of all we need to establish what the faceless mens goals are.

Valar Morghulis - Valar Dohaeris 

All men must die - All men must serve.

Everyone must die eventually but all men must serve. And who doesn't serve? Lords and Kings etc.

Cercie: You are to kind my Lord.

Bravoosie Banker: I'm neither kind nor am I a lord. 

Who does Arya kill at the Crossing? 

all Male heirs to the crossing.

In short the Faceless men want to free all men from aristocracy, by killing all lords and kings.

which gives us a couple of options for the plot.

1. killing Sansa

2. killing Heirs to the houses of the north which are happen to be in Winterfell

3. killing some heirs to houses of the Erie 

4. killing the king in the North

5.Killing the lord paramour to Harrenhall and the Erie, which might be a Faceless men himself. (wait and see)

 

This post is free of facts and is full of opinion, feel free to disagree. 

They are not the goals of the Faceless men, they are the words.

Faceless men serve the many faced god and do not pick who they kill, yes the above power could be directing them in a way. But if they only wanted to kill lords and kings, why didnt Jaqen kill Tywin and the Mountain at Harrenhal. They only live to serve not decide.

Having littlefinger as a Faceless man would be crazy and Id stop watching the show based on that.

Why isnt Arya the Waif?

  1. They kill in inconspicuous ways - the waif would never have killed the Freys that way
  2. The Many faced god decides who dies, why would the Waif then betray the Many faced god and kill all the Freys.
  3. Quite clearly there is an emotional tie, this then cant mean Arya is the Waif.

The Waif from what we have seen has taken everything so seriously and is committed to being a FM, therefore why would see go against all the unwritten rules of a Faceless man.

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2 hours ago, Samwell_Tarly said:

2. The Many faced god decides who dies, why would the Waif then betray the Many faced god and kill all the Freys..

I agree with point one and three but not with point two.

If Waif is the current Arya (and I don't believe so), Arya paid with her life to have her to-be-killed list accomplished.

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6 minutes ago, ERRI8013 said:

I agree with point one and three but not with point two.

If Waif is the current Arya (and I don't believe so), Arya paid with her life to have her to-be-killed list accomplished.

I don't know where you have got this from but if the waif is arya she was killed because she would not kill lady crane. 

I'd like you to give me some evidence on this or I'll just take it you made it up to make your point believable, which therefore make it's unbelievable as your point is invalid.

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10 minutes ago, Samwell_Tarly said:

I don't know where you have got this from but if the waif is arya she was killed because she would not kill lady crane. 

I'd like you to give me some evidence on this or I'll just take it you made it up to make your point believable, which therefore make it's unbelievable as your point is invalid.

No evidence, just my hypothesis.

;-)

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11 hours ago, Samwell_Tarly said:

Right so if the Waif is Arya, whats the plot line thats going to make sense?

The point would be that Sansa is the last Stark who has to survive. If the Waif adopted Arya's list then Sansa - as Arya felt about her then - could be on that list.

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17 minutes ago, Deminelle said:

The point would be that Sansa is the last Stark who has to survive. If the Waif adopted Arya's list then Sansa - as Arya felt about her then - could be on that list.

Right so Sansa is the last stark who has to survive, so how would putting her on aryas list help her To survive, lol she will be potentially killed off as or will be as arya story line is about her list.

they are not going to plonk Sansa on aryas list now. 

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Personally, I find Littlefinger's storyline to be one of the major flaws of the last few seasons, but especially in this last season.

This is a man who has no family, friends or allies.  He is despised, no one trusts him and no one is blind to his true nature.  Yet, the showrunners want us to believe that none of the characters who have dirt on him have made the slightest attempt to bring him down.  It just doesn't make any sense.

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I couldnt read every page, but did everyone forget that Bran is still there? I honestly believe that he is going to spill the beans on LF. Dont know how important that letter is, but if there is a beef between the sisters, Bran will resolve the issue. Bran is too powerful in this game concerning LF to let him come out on top. I think Bran will be LF downfall.

 

My theory is, Bran will tell the sisters of LF involvement in this great war which split the starks. And brought down winterfel. Now wheres the tangible truth? I dont know, but something will be needed to indict LF instead of word of mouth.

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49 minutes ago, storm.131 said:

Personally, I find Littlefinger's storyline to be one of the major flaws of the last few seasons, but especially in this last season.

This is a man who has no family, friends or allies.  He is despised, no one trusts him and no one is blind to his true nature.  Yet, the showrunners want us to believe that none of the characters who have dirt on him have made the slightest attempt to bring him down.  It just doesn't make any sense.

Cant agree more with you. But we all know the secrets he carries and what he has done but when we think about does anyone else. 

Sansa does have things on him but alot of the evidence that incriminates her would ultimately incriminate her too. How can she after all this time turn around and say LF killed her Aunt and she lied to save him. Arya last saw LF with Tywin at Harrenhall discussing Renlys death and a possible alliance between the crown & Tyrells. Doesnt really incriminate him for anything. However did LF recognise Arya as she split the wine on him, his looks definitely says so and his loss of attention to Tywin only adds to that he did. If he did then he didnt turn her in for a reason not known. I would think by giving Tywin Arya he would only strengthen Tywins position and he wants chaos.

The only person who can really save the two stark girls is their brother Bran, but will he care enough to do so or understand more of what LF is doing and has done. I think he will yes.

 

38 minutes ago, Charlie Hustle said:

I couldnt read every page, but did everyone forget that Bran is still there? I honestly believe that he is going to spill the beans on LF. Dont know how important that letter is, but if there is a beef between the sisters, Bran will resolve the issue. Bran is too powerful in this game concerning LF to let him come out on top. I think Bran will be LF downfall.

 

My theory is, Bran will tell the sisters of LF involvement in this great war which split the starks. And brought down winterfel. Now wheres the tangible truth? I dont know, but something will be needed to indict LF instead of word of mouth.

This has been clarified but there is alot to read in the thread.

Bran is still downloading and processing all that information he has recieved from the 3ER and is trying to make sense of it. So he may not have fully understood what he said ''chaos is a ladder'' and what the context it was said in and the rest of the conversation. But he will, he will be the one to stop the feud he is creating between Arya and Sansa, but LF plan also includes the downfall of Jon as KitN. As can been seen in his attempts to make them want Sansa and that Jon has deserted them all.

The letter that Arya has is the one Sansa sent to Robb to tell them to come swear fealty to her ''beloved Joffrey''. If Arya had anything about her she would know it wasnt Sansa who was behind the writing of the real message but she was been dictated to by Cersei. With the other thing Arya has seen i.e not particuarly defending Jon when he is getting slated and now she thinks she is working with LF to some degree.

Bran will be the one to step in and what ever he reveals will be enough for LF world to come crashing down and be sentenced to death.

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43 minutes ago, storm.131 said:

Personally, I find Littlefinger's storyline to be one of the major flaws of the last few seasons, but especially in this last season.

This is a man who has no family, friends or allies.  He is despised, no one trusts him and no one is blind to his true nature.  Yet, the showrunners want us to believe that none of the characters who have dirt on him have made the slightest attempt to bring him down.  It just doesn't make any sense.

I have to disagree with you here. Littlefinger is one of the great master manipulators of Westeros. He has a quick tongue and a deep understanding of people's motivations. He appears just innocent and weak enough that people don't outright murder him, and he seems to be just sincere enough in his friendships that people allow him to stay around. Also, he is brilliant with money, and money makes the world go round. 

For instance, with the Vale of Arryn, he won the affection of Robin Arryn, the "Lord of the Vale" and Petyr's puppet, so the Knights of the Vale have to follow him, even if they hate him. And in the North, he was the "Savior of the Battle of the Bastards," so even though the Starks are a bunch of murder hobos, they tolerate him because he provided a valuable service.

He is totally selfish and has backstabbed some of my favorite characters, but Petyr Baelish as a character is brilliantly written.

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39 minutes ago, Charlie Hustle said:

My theory is, Bran will tell the sisters of LF involvement in this great war which split the starks. And brought down winterfel. Now wheres the tangible truth? I dont know, but something will be needed to indict LF instead of word of mouth.

I don't understand why people are holding out hope for Bran to speak up about Littlefinger. If he hasn't done it by now, he simply isn't going to. And besides, why would he? Littlefinger's political schemes mean nothing to someone who can see everything that has ever happened. Bran has seen every great deed, every major accomplishment, every horrible act... Littlefinger is insignificant in the scope of what Bran is witnessing. 

With Bran's focus turned North to the Night King, I am certain that Littlefinger doesn't even register as a blip on his Three-Eyed radar.

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1 minute ago, Joshy said:

I don't understand why people are holding out hope for Bran to speak up about Littlefinger. If he hasn't done it by now, he simply isn't going to. And besides, why would he? Littlefinger's political schemes mean nothing to someone who can see everything that has ever happened. Bran has seen every great deed, every major accomplishment, every horrible act... Littlefinger is insignificant in the scope of what Bran is witnessing. 

With Bran's focus turned North to the Night King, I am certain that Littlefinger doesn't even register as a blip on his Three-Eyed radar.

Yes. but also little finger is under your nose and can cause a great divide south of the wall as well.

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5 minutes ago, Samwell_Tarly said:

Bran will be the one to step in and what ever he reveals will be enough for LF world to come crashing down and be sentenced to death.

I just don't see this happening. Bran knows everything that Littlefinger has done, every word that Littlefinger has whispered in back alleys and dark corridors, and he simply doesn't care. He has a war to wage against the Night King. As he has said many times, he simply isn't Brandon Stark anymore. He is the Three-Eyed Raven now, and the schemes of the Lords of Westeros are insignificant to him. 

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7 minutes ago, Joshy said:

I don't understand why people are holding out hope for Bran to speak up about Littlefinger. If he hasn't done it by now, he simply isn't going to. And besides, why would he?

Littlefinger's political schemes mean nothing to someone who can see everything that has ever happened. Bran has seen every great deed, every major accomplishment, every horrible act... Littlefinger is insignificant in the scope of what Bran is witnessing. 

With Bran's focus turned North to the Night King, I am certain that Littlefinger doesn't even register as a blip on his Three-Eyed radar.

Bran doesnt understand what he can do yet, not properly anyway. He doesnt know everything but he can see everything. As said hes probably not looking for Little Finger hes preoccupied with the Night King. Why would he help? hes still Brandon Stark their brother and he knows that to an extent, if he can help he will. Arya is hell bent on making out that Sansa is going to betray her family. There are things episode 6 that is said and it does not help Sansa's case that she isnt. Someone needs to step in and the only person who can will be Bran.

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