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Risto

Discussing Sansa XXXI: The plot thickens...

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We had one good hug, then went to "bad" life sisters had and now, the things are getting ugly.

Stark sisters obviously have their differences, but it boggles my mind how Arya would chop everyone's head off. On the other hand, ginger Stark's facial expression can match Drogon's in terms of giving any idea of thoughts and emotions (Scratch that, Drogon was rather expressive this episode)

So, we survived looking Starks dropping dead... Can we survive Starks fighting against each other? 

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7 hours ago, Risto said:

We had one good hug, then went to "bad" life sisters had and now, the things are getting ugly.

Stark sisters obviously have their differences, but it boggles my mind how Arya would chop everyone's head off. On the other hand, ginger Stark's facial expression can match Drogon's in terms of giving any idea of thoughts and emotions (Scratch that, Drogon was rather expressive this episode)

So, we survived looking Starks dropping dead... Can we survive Starks fighting against each other? 

I really enjoyed Arya being defensive over Jon Snow. I think she is internally angry at Sansa for not standing up for him. :D Can't wait for them to reunite.

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3 minutes ago, Dawn of Fyre said:

I really enjoyed Arya being defensive over Jon Snow. I think she is internally angry at Sansa for not standing up for him. :D Can't wait for them to reunite.

Yes, but Sansa did stand up for Jon. She reminded people that he is their King. I said this on the other thread, we have to understand Sansa's position here. Jon has been gone for months, so naturally the lords started to stir. They need stability, structure and Sansa is currently the only one offering that. She is not some power-hungry monster. She was ready to give her title to Bran when he returned. Yes, she likes being in charge (hell, who doesn't?) but I feel Arya's accusations this time were all over the place.

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4 minutes ago, Risto said:

but I feel Arya's accusations this time were all over the place.

Arya was playing the lying game and caught Sansa in a lie.  Not sure if she was telling the truth about chopping their heads off though.

On a side note Sansa needs a super power, Jon dragon rider, Bran 3EC, Arya magic assassin.  Sansa seemed to be heading for player but has not played anyone so far

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Just now, elder brother jonothor dar said:

Arya was playing the lying game and caught Sansa in a lie.  Not sure if she was telling the truth about chopping their heads off though.

What lie? Arya asked her about her wanting power if something happens to Jon and that it is what she wants. Sansa negates that she wants Jon dead, but can't negate that in that scenario, she wants to be in charge. Given Bran's catatonic state and Arya's "off with their heads" political mind, can we actually blame her?

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9 minutes ago, Risto said:

Yes, but Sansa did stand up for Jon. She reminded people that he is their King. I said this on the other thread, we have to understand Sansa's position here. Jon has been gone for months, so naturally the lords started to stir. They need stability, structure and Sansa is currently the only one offering that. She is not some power-hungry monster. She was ready to give her title to Bran when he returned. Yes, she likes being in charge (hell, who doesn't?) but I feel Arya's accusations this time were all over the place.

She did stand up for him, but it felt like she was reluctant to do so, you know what I mean? I think that was what Sophie was trying to portray through her acting. That is what caught Arya's attention. Had she been in Sansa's position, god forbid lol, she would have been more emotionally charged in the same situation.

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14 minutes ago, Dawn of Fyre said:

She did stand up for him, but it felt like she was reluctant to do so, you know what I mean? I think that was what Sophie was trying to portray through her acting. That is what caught Arya's attention. Had she been in Sansa's position, god forbid lol, she would have been more emotionally charged in the same situation.

I was reminded of Catelyn and how fiercely she defended Robb in front of Karstark. I think Sansa herself doesn't know what Jon is doing which makes it even more difficult to defend him. And as the time passes (and we know months have passed since Jon left WF), it is natural for balance of power to shift.

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27 minutes ago, Risto said:

Yes, but Sansa did stand up for Jon. She reminded people that he is their King. I said this on the other thread, we have to understand Sansa's position here. Jon has been gone for months, so naturally the lords started to stir. They need stability, structure and Sansa is currently the only one offering that. She is not some power-hungry monster. She was ready to give her title to Bran when he returned. Yes, she likes being in charge (hell, who doesn't?) but I feel Arya's accusations this time were all over the place.

I agree. Sansa's the sensible choice here. Arya seemed too immature, with the whole 'You like nice things' bit. 

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4 minutes ago, Alayne's Shadow. said:

I agree. Sansa's the sensible choice here. Arya seemed too immature, with the whole 'You like nice things' bit. 

That was one of the most hilarious moments in the episode. They entered the room, which was as plain as you can get, no embellishment, no luxury, rather common and Arya started accusing her of liking nice things.

We all knew that there will be some problems and issues sisters need to solve, but this was rather stupid way to do it.

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As I said in other topic, Arya only remember the old Sansa. The Sansa that liked nice things and princes, that craved for a Southern life. Once LF is out of the picture, they will start trusting each other again. 

 

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I think some are reading this wrong. 

Arya was making a very valid point about Sansa craving power (the comment about her always liking nice things was to support that point, not a point in itself) and I think was trying to (and succeeded) get Sansa to recognise that about herself so she can control it. I'm not totally sure Arya truly was doubting Sansa's loyalties to Jon or family.

I also think (and from what I saw in ep6 preview) there's a good chance Sansa is going to help Arya come to a self realisation next episode too.

Pretty sure whatever game LF is playing with the letter Sansa wrote will fail, he will die and by season end Sansa and Arya will be closer than ever.

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1 hour ago, Risto said:

Yes, but Sansa did stand up for Jon. She reminded people that he is their King. I said this on the other thread, we have to understand Sansa's position here. Jon has been gone for months, so naturally the lords started to stir. They need stability, structure and Sansa is currently the only one offering that. She is not some power-hungry monster. She was ready to give her title to Bran when he returned. Yes, she likes being in charge (hell, who doesn't?) but I feel Arya's accusations this time were all over the place.

In the leaked script for this episode, it does state that Sansa is tempted for a brief moment when Glover and Royce suggest she should be QITN and Arya picks up on it. In the final product this temptation is not seen on Sophie's face and Arya ends up looking like an idiot. Of course just like always, D&D's Sandra is one perplexing character. 

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I think the writing implied that Arya was correct that Sansa was hoping that Jon wouldn't come back so that she could rule without him and get the power she wants (even if she felt bad for feeling that way), because Sansa when called on it couldn't deny it. They weren't just talking about Sansa contemplating the possibility that Jon may die, since Sansa characterized Arya's suggestion as a "horrible thing"; Arya was talking about Sansa--albeit secretly and guiltily--wanting Jon to die so that she could get Winterfell.

It's nice to get a reminder that Arya has always cared about Jon more than Sansa ever did or will and is outraged that Sansa would ever hope for Jon's death, even guiltily, because it would clear the way for her rule. Watching her fiercely defend Jon and get angry at Sansa for failing to do so feels more like Book Arya.

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i think it is a plot by Arya to get Littlefinger to reveal everything about himself

she has heard what Bran said that Littlefinger was the main cause of their misery and vows revenge and hopes Littlefinger has a worse death that Walder Frey (eating his sons before his death)

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16 minutes ago, Newstar said:

I think the writing implied that Arya was correct that Sansa was hoping that Jon wouldn't come back so that she could rule without him and get the power she wants (even if she felt bad for feeling that way), because Sansa when called on it couldn't deny it. They weren't just talking about Sansa contemplating the possibility that Jon may die, since Sansa characterized Arya's suggestion as a "horrible thing"; Arya was talking about Sansa--albeit secretly and guiltily--wanting Jon to die so that she could get Winterfell.

It's nice to get a reminder that Arya has always cared about Jon more than Sansa ever did or will and is outraged that Sansa would ever hope for Jon's death, even guiltily, because it would clear the way for her rule. Watching her fiercely defend Jon and get angry at Sansa for failing to do so feels more like Book Arya.

The problem is Sansa's temptation and Arya's love for Jon is not clear in the final product and most people are seeing it as stupidity on Arya's part. If they would have clearly shown Arya protecting Jon's interests instead of having her talk about chopping off heads and being pissed at Sansa for taking Ned and Cat's room it wound have been much better. 

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I saw the distinction between Sansa and Arya personalities this episode : the margaery way (diplomacy) Vs the mad king way (beheading every opposing voice), good thing that Lady Stark gave Arya some logic.

I'a also worried about the new Arya, she looked super septic to everyone even her sister, she sees enemies in every corner

I think also that Sansa became something between Daenerys and Cersei from prosonality perspective

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Unlike Jon and Sansa's faux fights, the conflicts between Arya and Sansa are perfectly portrayed because they've simmered for a long time. But I don't like one aspect of Sansa looking afraid or worried; that's not right, they wouldn't physically hurt each other. Being afraid that Arya would wreck things, yes, that's more sensible. And Arya was right; where's the sense of loyalty to Jon in his absence? It's too much to ask that the sisters resolve a lifetime of differences in two episodes but both are smarter than Littlefinger and shouldn't let him come between them anymore.  

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3 minutes ago, Future Null Infinity said:

I saw the distinction between Sansa and Arya personalities this episode : the margeary way (diplomacy) Vs the mad king way (beheading every opposing voice), good thing that Lady Stark gave Arya some logic.

I'a also worried about the new Arya, she looked super septic to everyone even her sister, she sees enemies in every corner

I'm actually glad this is showing with Arya. She's been built up as just this cool, awesome character and there's so much more to her than this cool fighter. She is very damaged and her way of dealing with obstacles is not the best in every situation. When she was talking about cutting off Lord Glover's and Royce's head, I kept thinking about Robb beheading Lord Karstark. The only difference is that Robb had an actual reason to be upset with Karstark, Arya is just mad that they are questioning Jon's decisions. She clearly has some more maturing to do. This scene certainly showed that Sansa is the more rational sister and definitely the correct one to be in charge. Yes, she likes a little power, but so does Arya or she wouldn't have had that smile she did when she walked away after killing all of the Freys.

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2 minutes ago, Sand11751 said:

Unlike Jon and Sansa's faux fights, the conflicts between Arya and Sansa are perfectly portrayed because they've simmered for a long time. But I don't like one aspect of Sansa looking afraid or worried; that's not right, they wouldn't physically hurt each other. Being afraid that Arya would wreck things, yes, that's more sensible. And Arya was right; where's the sense of loyalty to Jon in his absence? It's too much to ask that the sisters resolve a lifetime of differences in two episodes but both are smarter than Littlefinger and shouldn't let him come between them anymore.  

And they won't. Littlefinger has bitten off more than he can chew this time.

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11 minutes ago, Mother of Mini Dragons said:

When she was talking about cutting off Lord Glover's and Royce's head, I kept thinking about Robb beheading Lord Karstark. The only difference is that Robb had an actual reason to be upset with Karstark, Arya is just mad that they are questioning Jon's decisions.

Nah. The punishment for treason, which is what the Northern lords were openly proposing, is death. Jon said as much in 7x01. Jon also cut Janos Slynt's head off for less, for those making the absurd claim that Jon would be horrified by Arya's suggestion. Sansa was out of line for not shutting that shit down with a quickness (instead she let their praise sink in before saying that Jon was doing what HE thinks is best, a not-so-subtle jab for the Northern lords who have seen her openly criticize Jon's decisions), and Arya was correct to call her on it.

I think what infuriated Arya was not so much Sansa's failure to defend Jon but Sansa pretending that she wasn't power-hungry and that her motives were pure. 

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