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Finally, the Dothraki confirmed as best army


Alfonso Sánchez

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Not that I don't enjoy all the tactics talk etc.  but I think Jamie, based on his Dothraki killing his men "for sport"  comment, was referring more to the Dothraki ability as individual fighters.  From the other side this is perhaps reflected in the Dothraki's comment to Tyrion that the Westeros men "can't fight".  The Dothraki are raised as warriors and it's safe to assume that one on one they'd destroy the average Westeros soldier or levee, many of whom are young and green replacmeets after the previous wars.

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10 minutes ago, Ser Pip said:

Not that I don't enjoy all the tactics talk etc.  but I think Jamie, based on his Dothraki killing his men "for sport"  comment, was referring more to the Dothraki ability as individual fighters.  From the other side this is perhaps reflected in the Dothraki's comment to Tyrion that the Westeros men "can't fight".  The Dothraki are raised as warriors and it's safe to assume that one on one they'd destroy the average Westeros soldier or levee, many of whom are young and green replacmeets after the previous wars.

^ Yup.

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20 minutes ago, Lord Okra said:

If the Lannister army had not been divided and had time to prepare even meager fortifications or gather into proper lines...

But they were and they didnt have time.....

20 minutes ago, Lord Okra said:

and weren't facing a 10-1 numerical disadvantage plus a dragon.....then it would have been a proper fight.

But they were.....

That's how it was.  That's how it is.  That's what happened. 

Its like me saying well well If I had a load of muscle, abit of training and wasn't facing Mike tyson, Id of won.

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6 minutes ago, Samwell_Tarly said:

But they were and they didnt have time.....

But they were.....

That's how it was.  That's how it is.  That's what happened. 

Its like me saying well well If I had a load of muscle, abit of training and wasn't facing Mike tyson, Id of won.

I'm not following your point. I was saying it all made sense the way it was written.

Since that was the situation it was a route.

If the situation had been different then we'd have witnessed a different battle but what we got made sense due to the way the battle was written.

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3 minutes ago, Lord Okra said:

I'm not following your point. I was saying it all made sense the way it was written.

Since that was the situation it was a route.

If the situation had been different then we'd have witnessed a different battle but what we got made sense due to the way the battle was written.

Just ignore me ha, I thought you were saying it didnt make sense. My apologies.

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The Dothraki were unimpressive and their charge could have ended up in disaster if not for the dragon. So D&D added a line about them being impressive to tell us what we were supposed to see.

I believe that most people who had some knowledge about history have long expected Dothraki to fail because they use ridiculous weaponry and tactics and hardly ever prove themselves in combat against a serious opponent. We were puzzled weather GRRM makes them intentionally overrated or did he fly on wings of fantasy to make them look more exotic.

Since Huns and Mongols were mentioned: Huns used tight formations and lance was their favorite melee weapon. Mongols had heavy cavalry armed with lances that could easily beat European knights. Also they were masters of siege engineering. Dothraki are more like ancient Thracians as their name alone suggests.

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Based on what I saw on the screen, the Lannister army was far more impressive than the Dothraki mob. Individually, they're better fighers sure. But there's no cohesive units or formations so the collective whole is a lot less. The Lannisters were literally ambushed and with less than a minutes warning were able to get into cohesive battle lines to face their enemy. Then when literally confronted with a destructive creature of legend, they stood their ground and fought effectively as circumstances allowed. The Dothraki were only as effective as they were because they outnumbered their foe vastly(despite some beliefs, only a fraction of the Lannister forces were there) and they had a dragon blasting huge holes into their line. Even sized forces, the Westerosi would easily win the day.

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On 15/8/2017 at 2:45 PM, Ser Pip said:

Not that I don't enjoy all the tactics talk etc.  but I think Jamie, based on his Dothraki killing his men "for sport"  comment, was referring more to the Dothraki ability as individual fighters.  From the other side this is perhaps reflected in the Dothraki's comment to Tyrion that the Westeros men "can't fight".  The Dothraki are raised as warriors and it's safe to assume that one on one they'd destroy the average Westeros soldier or levee, many of whom are young and green replacmeets after the previous wars.

Well, do not underestimate the knights too, their weapons are better forged, better designed, and if they used spears, they would be better shock troops (another point that the writers miss, knights are bound to use lances).

Also, knights do start fighting at early stages of their lives. 

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The Dothraki were unimpressive and their charge could have ended up in disaster if not for the dragon. So D&D added a line about them being impressive to tell us what we were supposed to see.

I believe that most people who had some knowledge about history have long expected Dothraki to fail because they use ridiculous weaponry and tactics and hardly ever prove themselves in combat against a serious opponent. We were puzzled weather GRRM makes them intentionally overrated or did he fly on wings of fantasy to make them look more exotic.

Since Huns and Mongols were mentioned: Huns used tight formations and lance was their favorite melee weapon. Mongols had heavy cavalry armed with lances that could easily beat European knights. Also they were masters of siege engineering. Dothraki are more like ancient Thracians as their name alone suggests.

Pretty much this, but i would compare the Dothraki to Scythians perhaps?. the thing is, the Dothraki tactics and weapons are by far not really good for cavalry specialist, neither as shock groups or harassing cavalry, they lack the lances for shocking, and the composite bows and tactics for steppe warfaring.

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Based on what I saw on the screen, the Lannister army was far more impressive than the Dothraki mob. Individually, they're better fighers sure. But there's no cohesive units or formations so the collective whole is a lot less. The Lannisters were literally ambushed and with less than a minutes warning were able to get into cohesive battle lines to face their enemy. Then when literally confronted with a destructive creature of legend, they stood their ground and fought effectively as circumstances allowed. The Dothraki were only as effective as they were because they outnumbered their foe vastly(despite some beliefs, only a fraction of the Lannister forces were there) and they had a dragon blasting huge holes into their line. Even sized forces, the Westerosi would easily win the day.

Considering your name one would be forgiven for thinking that you hace some kind of bias, but I do agree with you, it was really impressive for the lannister to stand as long as they did, but i do not think a good infantry based army would have formed 3 men deep, specially an infantry with experience against heavy cavalry.

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On 14/08/2017 at 3:36 PM, L’Age d’or said:

The Dothraki are an undisciplined band of raiders, they don't wear armor, their horses are naked and they lack any sort of collective movement training. Their cavalry charge is not even a proper one, they just gallop and scream while staying far and spread over a field, pike men wall would always break them apart.

This. The Dothraki have no tactics, no discipline, little regard for objectives. They have enthusiasm and horsemanship on their side.

This is from aDwD:

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Dany settled on her bench and wrapped her pelt about her shoulders once again. "The Unsullied are my finest warriors."
"Soldiers, not warriors, if it please Your Grace. They were made for the battlefield, to stand shoulder to shoulder behind their shields with their spears thrust out before them. Their training teaches them to obey, fearlessly, perfectly, without thought or hesitation ...

Dothraki are the opposite: warriors, not soldiers.

Anyway, there is no way they can be the "best army", because they're not an army. They wouldn't be one even if they were soldiers. They only have one type of fighter: light cavalry. Perhaps we could say two, as in the books at least (I don't recall seeing it much in the show) they shoot arrows from horseback. Perhaps Jaime banged his head when Bronn saved him, because despite what he thinks, a heavy cavalry charge would go right through them. What will their silly arakhs do against plate armour? Not that they'll ever touch that armour - they'd get lances through their chests first. They could be a useful part of an army.

And yeah, it's bullshit that they managed to do what they did, anyway. Between Randyll Tarly and Jaime Lannister there's no way the Lannister army would be taken by surprise like that. Jaime already learnt his lesson, and I doubt Randyll ever made such a mistake.

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The best army, or just the largest? The Dothraki horde is 100 thousand strong if I remember correctly.Even if only a fraction of them attacked the loot train, they would still vastly outnumber the Lannister/Tarly forces present for the battle. 

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