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dantares83

dragonstone to the wall in a day?

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1 hour ago, Fiery Heart said:

I must have missed the words "One day later...". Why would you assume that only one day is meant to have passed? Why not just use your imagination and assume that the necessary amount of time has passed... Instead of looking for reasons to complain. It's a bit unreasonable, to say the least, to think that this TV show should document the entirety of each long journey, of which there are many. Are you also pissed off that you don't get to see more characters having poos and wees? Are you outraged that the characters on this TV show apparently don't have a digestive system?

Start by reading the thread before jumping to conclusions.

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2 minutes ago, Corvinus said:

My point was that Hacksaw Ridge is not a good example, because the film tells the viewer exactly how much time passed between Virginia and Okinawa - 1 year. And ultimately the film fails a bit at that, as I mention in the spoilers, but it's not that important, as the film is about a different kind of journey. 

On the other hand, in GoT, we see warfare from the pov characters that are involved in making strategic decisions, we see battles, troop movements etc., yet with details glossed over, because the show has decided that only the final destination is important, and the journey is not. And that is poor writing.

I don't disagree with you on that, and it would have been easier to stomach by holding the final scene over to the next episode...to at least give us a physical pause if not a cinematic one.  

I think it would be cheesy if they put in "one week later..." at the bottom of the screen.  It's a tough call, and I think we all knew it would have to happen from the start (for those who read the books first), whether we admitted it to ourselves or not.  They could easily do the series for 12 seasons and still not cover everything...and I guarantee people would complain that the pace is too slow.

People are going to bitch no matter what...the best we can do in order to not let it ruin the experience is to just accept that timelines are shortened, and the feeling of time warping is going to come into play.  As an OCD person, I had to do that, and it doesn't bother me anymore.

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20 hours ago, ShadowKitteh said:

It happens in the books too, it just doesn't bug you, because you're reading, not watching. 

And just for the record, it doesn't bother everyone. And it doesn't even bother the people who treat this like they're watching 24, consistently. Like those back-to-back Cersei/Jamie scenes in S7E1 that no one had a problem with, even though clearly time had passed. 

I've watched every episode of GOT. 

The books have some issue with time as well.....but nothing like the show. (See Victarian's chapters from ADWD.) 

You seem to have an either or attitude regarding time in GOT. There is a middle ground between either having a "24" format regarding the show or having Jon teleport from DS to Eastwatch in one episode. Euron attacking Yara's fleet and then subsequently sailing to CR to ambush the fleet that transported Greyworm to CR is equally ridiculous. It was also stupid how Varys sailed from Mereen to Dorne and than back to Mereen, only to sail back to Westeros is stupid and nonsensical given the huge distance between the two places.

I've had a problem with GOT every since the fifth season, after D&D ran out of source material. The quality of the show has declined drastically. Seasons 1-4 were classics. Seasons 5-7 have been underwhelming. I wonder if GRRM really gave D&D some sort of outline to how the rest of the series was supposed to go. It doesn't appear that D&D are following GRRM's blueprint.  

 

 

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Naturally this is a result of the compressed season more than anything. Still it's disappointing. They could've easily gotten another episode or two without much more expense just by letting the dialogue flow a bit more naturally. Some of the most interesting conversations and character moments have been when people are randomly traveling. I should've liked to see Euron gloat over Yara's imprisonment or victory over Dany's fleet at Casterly Rock. Dickon and Randyll getting some moments to discuss their shifting allegiances and maybe even Sam and Heartsbane. Jaime and Bronn planning their moves after Highgarden's fall further, Theon planning to rescue his sister, maybe even some more scenes wit Jon. Tyrion and Davos having any sort of conversation enroute, Gendry should have something to say to a Lannister also. To say nothing of the short scenes that could be expanded upon. Jaime and Tyrion should've had much more to say during their reunion. So much missed potential this season.

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On 15/08/2017 at 11:22 AM, daemonTheBlack said:

Yes they should have shown every second of the weeks-long trip to the wall, with Jon Snow brooding and Jorah daydreaming, until they finally reach their destination in season 31. Because like in every TV show or movie in history, unless they show it happening, it did not happen.

Thank you!

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On 15.8.2017 at 5:22 AM, daemonTheBlack said:

Yes they should have shown every second of the weeks-long trip to the wall, with Jon Snow brooding and Jorah daydreaming, until they finally reach their destination in season 31. Because like in every TV show or movie in history, unless they show it happening, it did not happen.

Maybe we have some DBZ Fans here.

20 Episodes showing Goku's trip to Namek.

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7 hours ago, Lord Lannister said:

Naturally this is a result of the compressed season more than anything. Still it's disappointing. They could've easily gotten another episode or two without much more expense just by letting the dialogue flow a bit more naturally. Some of the most interesting conversations and character moments have been when people are randomly traveling. I should've liked to see Euron gloat over Yara's imprisonment or victory over Dany's fleet at Casterly Rock. Dickon and Randyll getting some moments to discuss their shifting allegiances and maybe even Sam and Heartsbane. Jaime and Bronn planning their moves after Highgarden's fall further, Theon planning to rescue his sister, maybe even some more scenes wit Jon. Tyrion and Davos having any sort of conversation enroute, Gendry should have something to say to a Lannister also. To say nothing of the short scenes that could be expanded upon. Jaime and Tyrion should've had much more to say during their reunion. So much missed potential this season.

I'm more disappointed in this than the "time traveling". The show has become very streamlined in regards to plotlines and dialogue. If it doesn't serve the endgame it's no longer in the show.

To make things a bit easier to accept try to think of things this way:

Seasons 1-4 things were relatively calm in Westeros. Politics were the focal point. The threat of Winter was not much of a threat at all. Daenerys was not a threat. This left the story to focus on the politics of Westeros and develop the characters.

As the threat of the White Walkers arrives and Daenerys becomes more of a threat, the show takes a shift to action. The "wheel is being broken" so to say and things that were set in motion slowly over the first seasons are finally clashing. The White Walkers don't want to talk, they want to kill. The war for the throne has come to it's final chapter. Didnt everyone want the final chapter to be action packed? It was always meant to be more characters just taking action to survive VS sitting around talking about things for another 2 seasons.

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20 hours ago, iprayiam said:

Because more and more, everything in the show is being cast in the light of the most impossible travel time of them all: The Army of the Dead's endless march on the Wall.

It's being used more and more as a catalyst for urgency, yet apparently incredible time span can pass while people and armies teleport all over Westeros and back without the Army of the Dead getting anywhere. An army that doesn't need to sleep, rest, or food to boot.

They've been politely on pause while everybody else gets perfectly ready and all other wars get kindly wrapped up. They're being used as both an immanent threat AND a stall for time, which is jarringly at odds. And many of us fear that after seven years of hype, the final apocalyptic confrontation will underwhelm as it gets pushed further and further into a bookend of the series.

Come on, man they are zombies. Zombies are slow. Have you not watched any zombie films?

:P

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6 hours ago, Armand Gargalen said:

Come on, man they are zombies. Zombies are slow. Have you not watched any zombie films?

:P

World war Z?

those zombies would be in Dorn by now. ;)

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On 8/14/2017 at 10:26 PM, ser jaime canister said:

To everyone whining that they don't want to see the traveling happen on-screen:

there is an army of the dead marching towards the Wall. We know FOR CERTAIN that they are marching at the same time that Jon is on Dragonstone treating with Dany, and that they were as far from the Wall as Bran and Meera. How slowly are we supposed to believe they're traveling that in the time it will have taken then to reach the Wall we've had:

 

Bran and Meera make it back to the Wall

Bran and Meera make it back to Castle Black

Jon travel to Dragonstone

Jon treat with Dany

Grey Worm and the Unsullied take Casterly Rock

News reach Dany and co. at Dragonstone

Dany and the Dothraki hit the Lannister army

Dany and Drogon get back to Dragonstone

Jorah make it all the way to Dragonstone from the Citadel

Tyrion meet with Jaime

Jon and crew decide to capture a wight

Jon and crew make it from Dragonstone to Eastwatch-by-the-sea

AND PRESUMABLY

Jon capture a wight

Jon take that wight back to the Wall

Jon take that wight to King's Landing

Cersei decides "yeah sure whatever" and sends her forces to the Wall

Jon and the entirety of the Westerlands/Reach/Ironborn(?)/Dornish(maybe)/Riverlands forces make it to the Wall

and not find every single member of the Night's Watch (and the North) slaughtered?

We don't know that the army of the dead is marching toward the wall during that period.  We know very little about what they are doing or why.  They may be rounding up the last straggling wildlings to build their army.  They may be doing some magical stuff to get stronger.  The show has not suggested that they are simply making a beeline for the wall. 

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On 8/17/2017 at 7:48 AM, falcotron said:

Part of the reason people assume, and complain about, ridiculously implausible travel times that aren't stated anywhere is that when the travel times are stated, they usually are ridiculously implausible.

For example, we know for a fact that Jaime went from King's Landing to Casterly Rock to Highgarden to King's Landing in under 14 days, including the time to empty out CR, win the siege of HG, loot the Tyrell lands, and transport all that gold and food. That's flat-out impossible, even by the most conservative geography assumptions.

And it's not just the show—GRRM frequently seems to forget he made Westeros the size of South America rather than the size of Britain.

Still, I don't get why people are complaining 7 seasons in, especially about one of the few scenes that we don't actually know for sure involved impossible travel times.

Where was it stated that Jaime's trip took less than 14 days?

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1 hour ago, Forlong the Fat said:

Where was it stated that Jaime's trip took less than 14 days?

 

Jaime and Cersei are in bed when Mycroft Hilary Lazarus arrives to demand payment of the crown's debts to the Iron Bank. This is the earliest Jaime can possibly have left—the morning of Cersei's first meeting with the banker.

Cersei tells the banker she will pay within a fortnight.

Later, at the end of the trip, Jaime and Tarly talk about how the gold, at the very head of the supply train, has just made it through the gates of KL, just before Dany and the Dothraki attack.

We then see Cersei meet the banker again and give him the gold, on time. So it must be within a fortnight of the first meeting. So the latest Jaime can possibly have finished his trip is the evening 14 days after the morning he left.

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By the way, every time I read this subject, I expect the next line to be "click here for one weird trick the coachlines don't want you to know!"

 

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5 minutes ago, falcotron said:

 

Jaime and Cersei are in bed when Mycroft Hilary Lazarus arrives to demand payment of the crown's debts to the Iron Bank. This is the earliest Jaime can possibly have left—the morning of Cersei's first meeting with the banker.

Cersei tells the banker she will pay within a fortnight.

Later, at the end of the trip, Jaime and Tarly talk about how the gold, at the very head of the supply train, has just made it through the gates of KL, just before Dany and the Dothraki attack.

We then see Cersei meet the banker again and give him the gold, on time. So it must be within a fortnight of the first meeting. So the latest Jaime can possibly have finished his trip is the evening 14 days after the morning he left.

I don't recall seeing Cersei give the gold to Tycho.  I recall him lauding her for her efficiency, and telling her they can work a new arrangement out....once he has received the gold.

 

I could be wrong, but I thought that scene was before the gold was announced to have made it into KL.

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25 minutes ago, Illiterati said:

I don't recall seeing Cersei give the gold to Tycho.  I recall him lauding her for her efficiency, and telling her they can work a new arrangement out....once he has received the gold.

So you're suggesting that when he was praising and flattering her for her efficiency and begging to lend her more money, she was actually late with her repayment and had failed in her promise, and Jaime was still weeks or months away, but at least she tried, and that's what the Iron Bank cares about?

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1 minute ago, falcotron said:

So you're suggesting that when he was praising and flattering her for her efficiency and begging to lend her more money, she was actually late with her repayment and had failed in her promise, and Jaime was still weeks or months away, but at least she tried, and that's what the Iron Bank cares about?

No, I am suggesting that by Tycho's own words, he didn't have the payment yet.

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5 minutes ago, Illiterati said:

No, I am suggesting that by Tycho's own words, he didn't have the payment yet.

Even if you assume Tycho was for some reason happy with the possibility that the gold might get there in the future, rather than with the fact that the gold was being loaded through the gates at the moment, that still doesn't help anything. Let's stretch things as far as humanly possible: Cersei had just gotten a raven from Highgarden, and Jaime hadn't even started on the last leg of his journey back from HG to KL. A medieval army still pulled off the trip from KL to CR, the trip from CR to HG, and the siege of HG all in 14 days, which is still impossible by over an order of magnitude.

This is like someone saying "How can Santa deliver toys for a billion children in only 16 hours?" and you answer, "If he takes optimal advantage of timezones instead of flying the obvious route, he really has 24 hours."

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3 minutes ago, falcotron said:

Even if you assume Tycho was for some reason happy with the possibility that the gold might get there in the future, rather than with the fact that the gold was being loaded through the gates at the moment, that still doesn't help anything. Let's stretch things as far as humanly possible: Cersei had just gotten a raven from Highgarden, and Jaime hadn't even started on the last leg of his journey back from HG to KL. A medieval army still pulled off the trip from KL to CR, the trip from CR to HG, and the siege of HG all in 14 days, which is still impossible by over an order of magnitude.

This is like someone saying "How can Santa deliver toys for a billion children in only 16 hours?" and you answer, "If he takes optimal advantage of timezones instead of flying the obvious route, he really has 24 hours."

My point is that at the moment that conversation took place, Dany hadn't barbecued a good number of Jaime's soldiers plus the Tarlys.  That attack was a gamechanger.  We don't know whether Cersei paid him or not, as D&D chose not to show that.

 

But yes, taking the gold and transporting it back in 4 days seems illogical.

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6 minutes ago, Illiterati said:

My point is that at the moment that conversation took place, Dany hadn't barbecued a good number of Jaime's soldiers plus the Tarlys.  That attack was a gamechanger.  We don't know whether Cersei paid him or not, as D&D chose not to show that.

Yes, that's all true. The fact that the show went out of its way to have Jaime and Tarly talk about how the gold is all at the head of the train and has already made it through the gates implies pretty strongly that Cersei does get the gold to pay back the IB on time and take out another loan to hire mercenaries, because otherwise there was no point to that scene (and because otherwise Cersei has nothing left to fight with).

But she did still unexpectedly lose most of her army and either one or both of her two generals (depending on whether Bronn or Tyrion rescues Jaime this weekend), so yeah, it's definitely a gamechanger.* Presumably this means Cersei goes from wanting the GC as a nice-to-have insurance policy to absolutely needing the GC, and maybe even all the available mercs in Essos, just to stay in the war.**

But that doesn't change what I said: Jaime went from King's Landing to Casterly Rock to Highgarden to (at last part of the way back to) King's Landing in under 14 days, which is flat-out impossible. And it's just the latest in a large number of cases, both in the show and in the books, when people have definitely traveled at impressive speeds for 21st century motorized technology (or when Westeros shrunk from the size of South America to the size of England).


* Also, all the food being burned up, instead of taken to KL by Jaime or retaken by Dany, ought to be a gamechanger, but I'm guessing we're never going to hear about that again.

** Although the armistice is an even bigger gamechanger. Now all Cersei has to do is agree to the armistice, hold onto the gold for now, use her leftover forces to help defeat the dead, and then after it's all over bring in the GC to defeat the tattered and exhausted remnants of the opposition armies (at whatever chokepoint she chooses, thanks to her complete naval superiority).

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