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Jaqen H'ghar's nonsense


Ser Petyr Parker

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7 hours ago, YOVMO said:

Not at all. That JH was in the black cells at all is absolutely absurd. Who caught him? Janos Slynt? I am a huge fan of @Toe's Grand Faceless Men Conspiracy Theory though I do think there are areas it is lacking and others that need refining.

I will go on record and say that if Jaquen was in the black cells it was because he wanted to be there. I believe that Varys is a FM too and that the general plan was to have Ned take the black, JH to kill him and take his face and take up the roll of Ned on the wall to destabilize the Night's Watch. When Ned got his hair cut a little too short JH changed plans and headed over to the Citadel.

I agree with the bolded statement, but I think Petyr was the one who arranged it, not Varys. 

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I'm not convinced George had this completely fleshed out when he first penned this storyline. I don't think he really had a detailed reason about why Jaqen was in the black cells. If you start saying he deliberately got imprisoned so he could travel north with Ned and then kill him and take his face, you have to come up with an explanation why he wouldn't simply shadow the party north and move in for the kill one night. It would mean he wouldn't start from a compromised shackled position and he wouldn't have to worry about Yoren looking for a missing person. If anything he could kill Yoren first and take his face. We'll see if anything else is ever revealed, we will almost certainly get another look at Jaqen/Pate but I wouldn't hold your breath waiting for some answer to his past.

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10 hours ago, Ser Petyr Parker said:

Presumably the idea is that, since Arya saved three people from a fire, the fire god has been cheated and is owed three lives. If they had been at risk of drowning instead, perhaps the Drowned God would be owed three lives.

But that makes no sense at all. What would have happened if things were different is irrelevant, because it was never actually going to happen. Otherwise, where do you draw the line and say someone has been saved? People take actions to avoid their own deaths and those of others every day, even something so simple as carrying a weapon to avoid being attacked, or boiling potentially contaminated water. Is a god cheated every time? Surely the gods know better than to think every danger will be fatal.

So this toddler was at least as close to death as Jaqen and co. were. Does Catelyn now owe a life to the Crushed By A Horse God?

So what is the explanation? Did Martin accidentally write something that makes no sense? Is Jaqen wrong in-universe? Or is he just making up a story?

I'm interested in the last explanation, because it fits with a possible answer to other questions: Why is Jaqen even at Harrenhal? Why does he take on the debt for Arya, and why does he let her choose the names? Why does he agree to help her escape?

He could truly believe that three lives are owed to a god, and the rest is what he owes to Arya. But that assumes Martin wrote something that made little sense. The alternative explanation is that Jaqen came up with a sort-of-plausible explanation to hide his true reasons for helping Arya.

Thoughts? Does Jaqen's explanation make sense to you? Or do you think he was up to something else involving Arya? Was he trying to send her to the House of Black and White all along?

Jaqen is a member of a religious cult devoted to death; specifically, bringing it about for specific, named individuals.  That such a person would have peculiar ideas about death and its prevention is not unreasonable.  And, remember, his death, and that of the other two men, was inevitable absent Arya's intervention.  An alternate explanation is that he feels that he has a karmic obligation to Arya for saving his and the others' lives.  In any case, I think his reaction to her naming "Jaqen" as the third victim shows that it wasn't a ruse, but real on his part.  He seemed to be genuinely afraid that if something went wrong he would have to kill himself.

I have doubts that he was trying to recruit her.  For one thing, a better test would involve seeing if she was willing to actually kill people.  Anybody can ask for someone else to die.  Very few can do the deed themselves, especially children.  Another reason is that he had no real reason to actually expect her to show up.  At the time he gave her the coin, there was every expectation that she would join her family at Riverrun.  Robb was winning, and he still had the Freys on his side.  So her arrival in Braavos would have been regarded as very unlikely, absent some sort of calamity to her family (which actually happened).  Of course, he knew who she was by this point, so if she did arrive, the FM would have their hands on a malleable scion of a great Westeros family.  Very nice to have.

 

5 hours ago, LiveFirstDieLater said:

How has nobody mentioned that Jaqen Hagar and Syrio Forell are both the same faceless man?

Probably because they are not actually the same person.

 

1 hour ago, Damon_Tor said:

an appealing idea at first glance, but it falls apart very quickly when you actually examine it. "What do we say to the God of Death? Not today." Not a very Faceless-Man sort of philosophy.

That line is only in the show, not the books.  I do agree with you, though, that his actions and statements are inconsistent with his being a Faceless Man.

 

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The three wishes bit sounds like an application of "only death can pay for life". The other bit of philosophy of the FM that may apply to this situation is that the FM are not supposed to choose who lives and who dies, which as the Kindly Old Man described is akin to take tue god's powers onto oneself. Granted, Jaqen asks Arya to chose three people to die, but hey it's religion it doesn't have to make sense. Jaqen is after all a priest. If you notice the way he phrases it is as Arya is owing the deaths. I don't think it was meant to be optional, that if Arya didn't want anyone dead he would have simply let her be. The repayment of his personal debt to Arya was the iron coin.

I also don't understand the reluctance about Jaqen being arrested. The FM have some nifty tricks up their sleeve, but they are not superhuman. They can be captured and killed just fine. In her final chapter Arya was given an exceedingly memorable face when she was sent to kill the insurance salesman. The reasoning is simple. Had she been seen the authorities would be looking for a very distinct individual, who of course no longer existed. Jaqen was a Lorathi with dual colored hair in King's Landing. That is very memorable. Considering that he was in the black cells, had done the deed and he was caught before he had the chance to change his face.

As for paying attention to Arya, she was the one person in their company who was pretending to be someone else. It is an occupational hazard.

It is likely that Martin had not fully fleshed out the Faceless Men as of Clash. He had introduced them though in Game. Another thing to remember is that the FM are people. Like all septon, members of the Night's Watch, Kingsguard and maesters are not the same, we shouldn't expect the FM to behave in an identical manner.

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17 hours ago, Seams said:

And this brings us to your questions, which boil down to (correct me if I'm wrong):

1) Does Jaqen really believe that three deaths are "owed" to the Red God?

2) Why does Jaqen bother to involve himself with Arya?

Yep, that's about it. Thanks for summarising.

18 hours ago, Damon_Tor said:

The toddler probably wasn't a Faceless Man.

That's what he wants you to think.

9 hours ago, Nevets said:

Jaqen is a member of a religious cult devoted to death; specifically, bringing it about for specific, named individuals.  That such a person would have peculiar ideas about death and its prevention is not unreasonable.  And, remember, his death, and that of the other two men, was inevitable absent Arya's intervention.  An alternate explanation is that he feels that he has a karmic obligation to Arya for saving his and the others' lives.  In any case, I think his reaction to her naming "Jaqen" as the third victim shows that it wasn't a ruse, but real on his part.  He seemed to be genuinely afraid that if something went wrong he would have to kill himself.

I have doubts that he was trying to recruit her.  For one thing, a better test would involve seeing if she was willing to actually kill people.  Anybody can ask for someone else to die.  Very few can do the deed themselves, especially children.  Another reason is that he had no real reason to actually expect her to show up.  At the time he gave her the coin, there was every expectation that she would join her family at Riverrun.  Robb was winning, and he still had the Freys on his side.  So her arrival in Braavos would have been regarded as very unlikely, absent some sort of calamity to her family (which actually happened).  Of course, he knew who she was by this point, so if she did arrive, the FM would have their hands on a malleable scion of a great Westeros family.  Very nice to have.

Peculiar ideas, yes. But you'd expect them to make sense on some level.

But although I'm not sure, I agree that it doesn't make much sense for him to be trying to recruit her either. I don't know what you look for in a Faceless Man, but Arya doesn't seem to be it, with her obsession with revenge.

11 hours ago, Lost Melnibonean said:

I am not answering the bigger question here, but I think we can distinguish the two examples you provide in the OP. In the former, Jaqen et al. were chained to a cage, and the fire was already burning the cage. Arya intervened to save them from certain death. Caelyn, on the other hand, was the one who was bearing down on the boy, but she reigned hard to avoid him. The two scenarios would be more similar if another person had intervened to rescue the toddler. 

OK, it's not the best example. I just tried to think of a death that was avoided and remembered that one. My view is kind of deterministic so some people might disagree on a fundamental level, but my view is that in that exact situation there could only be one outcome. If you change no variables, your result is always the same. So if you had the right information you could look at Arya, the fire, and the cage with the prisoners inside, and know that Arya would always save them.

But even if you don't think that way, like I said, where do you draw the line and say someone's life has been saved or not? Am I thinking about this too much?

1 hour ago, The Sleeper said:

The three wishes bit sounds like an application of "only death can pay for life". The other bit of philosophy of the FM that may apply to this situation is that the FM are not supposed to choose who lives and who dies, which as the Kindly Old Man described is akin to take tue god's powers onto oneself. Granted, Jaqen asks Arya to chose three people to die, but hey it's religion it doesn't have to make sense. Jaqen is after all a priest. If you notice the way he phrases it is as Arya is owing the deaths. I don't think it was meant to be optional, that if Arya didn't want anyone dead he would have simply let her be. The repayment of his personal debt to Arya was the iron coin.

If they're not supposed to choose, it doesn't fit well with their origin story which has the original Faceless Man taking it upon himself to murder the people he thinks would appreciate death the most.

But you made me think of a theory that might make sense:

What I always found confusing is that they claim to see death as a gift, but they can also be hired to assassinate people for clients with grievances against their targets, and Jaqen seemed quite unready to die (unless it was something else he was afraid of - suicide specifically, rather than death, perhaps). But what if the assassination business is just a necessity? It could be as simple as a way to raise money, but what if they have life to pay for, and therefore need death? A shrewd person might wonder why they don't take money for the deaths they have to cause anyway, and a kind person might decide they could pay off a lot of their debt by finding all the people who want to die anyway.

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33 minutes ago, Ser Petyr Parker said:

If they're not supposed to choose, it doesn't fit well with their origin story which has the original Faceless Man taking it upon himself to murder the people he thinks would appreciate death the most.

But you made me think of a theory that might make sense:

What I always found confusing is that they claim to see death as a gift, but they can also be hired to assassinate people for clients with grievances against their targets, and Jaqen seemed quite unready to die (unless it was something else he was afraid of - suicide specifically, rather than death, perhaps). But what if the assassination business is just a necessity? It could be as simple as a way to raise money, but what if they have life to pay for, and therefore need death? A shrewd person might wonder why they don't take money for the deaths they have to cause anyway, and a kind person might decide they could pay off a lot of their debt by finding all the people who want to die anyway.

It comes straight from the horse's mouth, in the blind girl chapter. And not only there. Every step of the way they disavow any agency as to who they chose to kill. The original faceless man was supposedly guided by the prayers he heard. Likewise, they are supposed to give the gift to those who are "marked" after prayer and sacrifice. What these prayers and sacrifices entail is a very good question to which we don't have an answer. For all we know there is a frog in the deapths of the temple and they determine their victims from the way it croaks. Or more likely thay have some rituals, which help them gain "divine inspiration", which I suspect usually validates their interests and beliefs. Like it was "revealed" to the high septon in Oldtown that they should open the gates to Aegon or the city would burn, or how Aeron thought to call a kingsmoot.

As to death being a gift. It doesn't need to be a gift to the recipient. It could be a gift to the one who asked for it. Though, the Kindly Man says to Arya that there are two qualifiers to the gift. Both suffering and sins. In any case, I doubt that anyone can hire them for assassination, without the price really hurting and being closer to a sacrifice than a price. Otherwise everyone would hire them and no person of any authority would last more than a year upon assuming it.

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59 minutes ago, The Sleeper said:

It comes straight from the horse's mouth, in the blind girl chapter. And not only there. Every step of the way they disavow any agency as to who they chose to kill. The original faceless man was supposedly guided by the prayers he heard. Likewise, they are supposed to give the gift to those who are "marked" after prayer and sacrifice. What these prayers and sacrifices entail is a very good question to which we don't have an answer. For all we know there is a frog in the deapths of the temple and they determine their victims from the way it croaks. Or more likely thay have some rituals, which help them gain "divine inspiration", which I suspect usually validates their interests and beliefs. Like it was "revealed" to the high septon in Oldtown that they should open the gates to Aegon or the city would burn, or how Aeron thought to call a kingsmoot.

Well, I suppose religious people can rationalise anything if they want to believe it. But it seems to me that Jaqen was able to choose to kill people not specifically named or otherwise identified in the Weasel Soup incident. He also joined the Brave Companions, which must have made avoiding killing difficult, and he offered to help fight when Amory Lorch attacks. Perhaps he gained some sort of "divine inspiration" as you said, or perhaps the rules are different for battles and when given orders.

But I think you're downplaying how much choice was involved in the FM origin story.

Quote

"That very night he chose the most wretched of the slaves, the one who had prayed most earnestly for release, and freed him from his bondage. The first gift had been given."

Note that the Kindly Man specifically uses the word "chose". As you say, the original Faceless Man was guided by the prayers, but there's nothing divine about being guided by listening to other people's prayers - he listened to their pain and chose the one who seemed to suffer the most. There's no claim that he heard the gods speaking back. It's clear he thought he was doing God's/the gods' work, but the Kindly Man does nothing to emphasise that he was simply following divine instructions without making his own judgements.

1 hour ago, The Sleeper said:

As to death being a gift. It doesn't need to be a gift to the recipient. It could be a gift to the one who asked for it. Though, the Kindly Man says to Arya that there are two qualifiers to the gift. Both suffering and sins. In any case, I doubt that anyone can hire them for assassination, without the price really hurting and being closer to a sacrifice than a price. Otherwise everyone would hire them and no person of any authority would last more than a year upon assuming it.

Is there any evidence for the FM ever talking about it as a gift for someone other than the person who's dying?

As for anyone being able to hire them, there are a few references to them being ruinously expensive, but Arya's first mission is unlikely to have been on behalf of anyone rich. I know some people think the FM charge according to their client's means. I don't recall ever seeing much evidence for that idea, but I doubt they're just there for the ridiculously rich.

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44 minutes ago, Ser Petyr Parker said:

Well, I suppose religious people can rationalise anything if they want to believe it. But it seems to me that Jaqen was able to choose to kill people not specifically named or otherwise identified in the Weasel Soup incident. He also joined the Brave Companions, which must have made avoiding killing difficult, and he offered to help fight when Amory Lorch attacks. Perhaps he gained some sort of "divine inspiration" as you said, or perhaps the rules are different for battles and when given orders.

 

 

Now, you are taking it to the other extreme. At no point are we told that they simply should sit around and die. Arya never leaves the Temple without at least one knife on her. Likewise Jaqen was in a holdfast under attack and then in a warzone. He couldn't survive or maintain his freedom without resorting to violence. As for the weasel soup, he was forced into it. I am more inclined to believe that his distress came from the prospect of breaking a vow and/or having to kill Arya, rather than killing himself, but we don't really know. We can conclude that helping her was more congruent with his code, or feelings than the other alternatives.

 

44 minutes ago, Ser Petyr Parker said:

But I think you're downplaying how much choice was involved in the FM origin story.

Note that the Kindly Man specifically uses the word "chose". As you say, the original Faceless Man was guided by the prayers, but there's nothing divine about being guided by listening to other people's prayers - he listened to their pain and chose the one who seemed to suffer the most. There's no claim that he heard the gods speaking back. It's clear he thought he was doing God's/the gods' work, but the Kindly Man does nothing to emphasise that he was simply following divine instructions without making his own judgements.

“And are you a god, to decide who should live and who should die?” he asked her. “We give the gift to those marked by Him of Many Faces, after prayers and sacrifice. So has it always been, from the beginning. I have told you of the founding of our order, of how the first of us answered the prayers of slaves who wished for death. The gift was given only to those who yearned for it, in the beginning … but one day, the first of us heard a slave praying not for his own death but for his master’s. So fervently did he desire this that he offered all he had, that his prayer might be answered. And it seemed to our first brother that this sacrifice would be pleasing to Him of Many Faces, so that night he granted the prayer. Then he went to the slave and said, ‘You offered all you had for this man’s death, but slaves have nothing but their lives. That is what the god desires of you. For the rest of your days on earth, you will serve him.’ And from that moment, we were two.” His hand closed around her arm, gently but firmly. “All men must die. We are but death’s instruments, not death himself. When you slew the singer, you took god’s powers on yourself. We kill men, but we do not presume to judge them. Do you understand?”

The blind girl

“Then you do not belong here. Death holds no sweetness in this house. We are not warriors, nor soldiers, nor swaggering bravos puffed up with pride. We do not kill to serve some lord, to fatten our purses, to stroke our vanity. We never give the gift to please ourselves. Nor do we choose the ones we kill. We are but servants of the God of Many Faces.”

The ugly little girl

From the horse's mouth. If you think they are inconsistent, don't blame me. I think they are about as consistent and honest as any other clergy who claim to speak for and act on the behalf of their respective deities.

52 minutes ago, Ser Petyr Parker said:

Is there any evidence for the FM ever talking about it as a gift for someone other than the person who's dying?

As for anyone being able to hire them, there are a few references to them being ruinously expensive, but Arya's first mission is unlikely to have been on behalf of anyone rich. I know some people think the FM charge according to their client's means. I don't recall ever seeing much evidence for that idea, but I doubt they're just there for the ridiculously rich.

No, I was just being sarcastic.

The ruinously expensive idea is probably a misconception. In the two cases we are told of the price, insofar as we can trust what we are being told, the common thread was lifelong service. The first supplicant became the second faceless man and the waif's father had to give up his daughter along with his wealth. My idea is that the reason that they have so much pull in Braavos, is because there are people who are indebted to them and guys like Izembaro and Brusco are former novices and accolytes who didn't finish their training. The same is probably true about the servants. I also think the other accolytes are prices.

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Jaqen was only forced into taking part in the Weasel Soup incident if you assume it's better to kill people who haven't been "chosen" than it is to kill yourself. That could definitely be true for the FM - maybe suicide is worse than killing people not on the list - but we don't know. 

And yes, the Kindly Man says a lot of stuff about not deciding who lives or dies. I'm not saying they don't believe that, or that they do choose every time. I'm just saying that, no matter what he says there, there are reasons to think it's not that simple, including Jaqen apparently putting self-preservation before the divine kill list.

I don't know why you'd say "If you think they are inconsistent, don't blame me." Did I give the impression I was blaming you? I'm just trying to find a way to make sense of it all.

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It's a figure of speech.

They are a sect that have a set of beliefs and rationalize their actions and lives based on those beliefs. We have seen only the basics of those beliefs and then there would be conflict with practicalities and issues of individual interpretation.

Sense is not a requirement.

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16 hours ago, Damon_Tor said:

Part of the problem here is that R'hllor is also a part of the amalgamated death-god worshipped at the House of Black and White.

I don't seem to recall this other than JH saying that the red god is owed three lives to arya which, in the course of this thread, I thought we concluded is totally bs. I could just be forgetting something -- it happens

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16 hours ago, Lost Melnibonean said:

I agree with the bolded statement, but I think Petyr was the one who arranged it, not Varys. 

I thought about this for a while and thought Petyr too..especially because of the titan of braavos sigil which he replaces. In the end I think that Littlefinger is a red herring wrt the faceless plot and that it is Varys. The reason I eventually saw things this way was due to 1) Many of his statements about "no one" and "wanting peace" and his general distain for the power elite as well as 2) the fact that his plans for Targaryen restoration, if that is his true purpose, are so stupid that Hodor could have done better meaning either varys is incredibly dumb and blind and bad at planning (which seems incredibly unlikely) or that his stated purpose for his actions is totally bogus. In the end, despite what he says, every single thing Varys does subtlety destabilizes the realm and leads to chaos and war which is the exact thing that he says he doesn't want.

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38 minutes ago, YOVMO said:

I thought about this for a while and thought Petyr too..especially because of the titan of braavos sigil which he replaces. In the end I think that Littlefinger is a red herring wrt the faceless plot and that it is Varys. The reason I eventually saw things this way was due to 1) Many of his statements about "no one" and "wanting peace" and his general distain for the power elite as well as 2) the fact that his plans for Targaryen restoration, if that is his true purpose, are so stupid that Hodor could have done better meaning either varys is incredibly dumb and blind and bad at planning (which seems incredibly unlikely) or that his stated purpose for his actions is totally bogus. In the end, despite what he says, every single thing Varys does subtlety destabilizes the realm and leads to chaos and war which is the exact thing that he says he doesn't want.

I started a thread on this idea a while back...

http://asoiaf.westeros.org/index.php?/topic/89914-littlefinger-hired-a-faceless-man-to-kill-ned/

As to the purpose of the faceless man who paid Arya's debt to the red god, the George might have suggested to a Spanish ASOIAF website that the character turned out to be kinda like Boba Fett. Here is a translation of the relevant portion of the interview...

Quote

Q: How did Ned Stark run into Syrio Forel?

A: Well, I’ve never given it much thought. Ned was searching for a fencing master who could teach Arya, and he knew it couldn’t not be a conventional master at arms or a knight, or the castle master at arms, because he didn’t think his young daughter could handle a broadsword (or maybe longsword) the way man with greater strength in their torso could, so he decided the Braavosi style suited her best. Who was available in the city that might fit the bill? Obviously, somebody had to recommend him to Ned. I believe Syrio must have been in the city at the time, because there wasn’t enough time to send for someone all the way from Braavos.

Q: How did Jaqen H’ghar wind up in the dungeons of King’s Landing?

A: Wow, that’s also a mystery (laughs). You really pay attention when you read, don’t you? (laughs) How many theories have you gleaned from these books? (more laughs)

In the first response, the George appeared to make up a backstory on the spot for Syrio, clearly indicating that Syrio was who Syrio said Syrio was, and that Syrio was a plot device for the development of Arya's character. 

We can infer that the George's second response equated "Jaqen" to Syrio. Alternatively, he could have been laughing off the question to avoid spoiling the mystery of the character's back story and larger purpose. 

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25 minutes ago, Lost Melnibonean said:

started a thread on this idea a while back...

http://asoiaf.westeros.org/index.php?/topic/89914-littlefinger-hired-a-faceless-man-to-kill-ned/

As to the purpose of the faceless man who paid Arya's debt to the red god, the George might have suggested to a Spanish ASOIAF website that the character turned out to be kinda like Boba Fett. Here is a translation of the relevant portion of the interview...

will read your thread...surely to be interesting


As for the quote, I have always thought it was odd and kind of off the top of the head. After all, assuming Lyanna was the knight of the laughing tree (as I think most do at this point) there is no reason to think arya couldn't have been trained by a suitable master at arms with a sword simply built for her stature....

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So, to all the people thinking that Jaqen and the others were in the Cells and later chained up on purpose, (for their end-game, which ever this was) and everything was perfectly planned:

What would Jaqen do if Arya would have been killed at the walls wenn the lannister men attacked. Or decided to try another way out. Had he been able to free himself? Did he know the exact second he could wait for arya before he should free himself? How did he plan all this?

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17 hours ago, Damon_Tor said:

It's an appealing idea at first glance, but it falls apart very quickly when you actually examine it. "What do we say to the God of Death? Not today." Not a very Faceless-Man sort of philosophy. He talks about his appointment to be the First Sword and the test had nothing to do with fighting, the First Sword's primary function is to see through illusions. In other words, Syrio is an anti-Faceless Man. While I assume it isn't impossible or even unlikely that a Faceless Man would spout contrary dogma when a particular job called for him to do so, one has to wonder why the author would have made that choice given the context.

So somebody else pointed out that you quoted the show (albeit a great line!), so instead I'll just point out a few quotes from the book. Interestingly, I'd focus on that story Syrio tells of becoming first sword, I think it's more in line with the Faceless Men than you give it credit.

Both Syrio and Jaqen both refer to Arya as a boy when they first meet. This isn't remarkable in itself, since some other characters are also fooled by her disguise once she's on the run.

However, Syrio does it presumably knowing full well who she is. In addition, he tells a whole story about how he became first sword in which the moral is that he "sees" what is there, and the example used is the gender of the cat.

Jaquen meanwhile appears to go along with Arrya's disguise, but later shows that he knows who she is. Not only that, he does so while talking about "seeing", much like Syrio's Cat Story.

Syrio's Cat story:

"On the day I am speaking of, the first sword was newly dead, and the Sealord sent for me. Many bravos had come to him, and as many had been sent away, none could say why. When I came into his presence, he was seated, and in his lap was a fat yellow cat. He told me that one of his captains had brought the beast to him, from an island beyond the sunrise. 'Have you ever seen her like?' he asked of me.
"And to him I said, 'Each night in the alleys of Braavos I see a thousand like him,' and the Sealord laughed, and that day I was named the first sword."
Arya screwed up her face. "I don't understand." 
Syrio clicked his teeth together. "The cat was an ordinary cat, no more. The others expected a fabulous beast, so that is what they saw. How large it was, they said. It was no larger than any other cat, only fat from indolence, for the Sealord fed it from his own table. What curious small ears, they said. Its ears had been chewed away in kitten fights. And it was plainly a tomcat, yet the Sealord said 'her,' and that is what the others saw. Are you hearing?"

Given that Syrio repeatedly, and presumably intentionally calls Arya by the wrong gender, this should raise big red flags.

When Syrio first meets Arya:

It was the third time he had called her "boy."
"I'm a girl," Arya objected.
"Boy, girl," Syrio Forel said. "You are a sword, that is all." He clicked his teeth together. "Just so, that is the grip. You are not holding a battle-axe, you are holding a—" 
"—needle," Arya finished for him, fiercely.

This gave me pause... Syrio gets the gender wrong (intentionally), tells Arya that he/she's gender doesn't matter, she's "a sword", then tells a story whose moral is seeing the truth in which he's remarkable for correctly stating the gender of a cat... almost like she needs to give up her identity to master the lesson.

Jaqen first meets Arya:

"A man does not choose his companions in the black cells," the handsome one with the red-and-white hair said. Something about the way he talked remindedher of Syrio; it was the same, yet different too. "These two, they have no courtesy. A man must ask forgiveness. You are called Arry, is that not so?" 
"Lumpyhead," said the noseless one. "Lumpyhead Lumpyface Stickboy. Have a care, Lorath, he'll hit you with his stick."

"A man must be ashamed of the company he keeps, Arry," the handsome one said. "This man has the honor to be Jaqen H'ghar, once of the Free City of Lorath. Would that he were home. This man's ill-bred companions in captivity are named Rorge"—he waved his tankard at the noseless man—"and Biter." Biter hissed at her again, displaying a mouthful of yellowed teeth filed into points. "A man must have some name, is that not so? Biter cannot speak and Biter cannot write, yet his teeth are very sharp, so a man calls him Biter and he smiles. Are you charmed?"

First off, Arya thinks that Jaqen's voice reminds her of Syrio... I'll come back to this eventually as I believe it is similar to Ned identifying Rugan as Varys in the Black Cells.

Also, "you are called Arry" now jumps out at me since it seems to indicate an immediate recognition in Jaqen that it is a disguise. Along with "a man must have a name" it's almost like he's referring to both Arya and himself in addition to Bitter.

In retrospect, Jaqen's introduction does seem to reference the Faceless Men. "A man" must have some name, but nobody on the other hand does not... also there is a nice double meaning to the "are you charmed?" since while it seems to refer to Biter it could just as easily refer to Jaqen himself and his current disguise.

Then they meet after she freed him:

Jaqen H'ghar took his hand away. The cellar was black as pitch and she could not see his face, even inches away. She could smell him, though; his skin smelled clean and soapy, and he had scented his hair. "A boy becomes a girl," he murmured.
"I was always a girl. I didn't think you saw me." 
"A man sees. A man knows."
 
So here we see Jaqen seems to imply he knows who Arya is and has the whole time. Not only that, "a man sees" is remarkably reminiscent of Syrio's whole "seeing" story.
 
Then Later before the Weasel Soup:
 
"A man sees. A man hears. A man knows."
She regarded him suspiciously. Had the gods sent him? "How'd you make the dog kill Weese? Did you call Rorge and Biter up from hell? Is Jaqen H'ghar your true name?" 
"Some men have many names. Weasel. Arry. Arya."

And here we have Jaqen straight up saying he knows who Arya is. But "some men have many names" seems to me to really be talking about himself in answer to her question. Of course we know now that he's a faceless man and does in fact take on many names. But, I would suggest that we know another name Jaqen has already used, Syrio Forrel.

So in an attempt to be clear, I believe "seeing" as stated by Syrio, is in fact just a disguised lecture of Faceless Man philosophy. In fact, the boy/girl "you are a sword" line also seems to be in line with the Faceless Men as well.

"You should. Stay, and the Many-Faced God will take your ears, your nose, your tongue. He will take your sad grey eyes that have seen so much. He will take your hands, your feet, your arms and legs, your private parts. He will take your hopes and dreams, your loves and hates. Those who enter His service must give up all that makes them who they are. Can you do that?" He cupped her chin and gazed deep into her eyes, so deep it made her shiver. "No," he said, "I do not think you can."

To enter His service you must give up being a boy or girl and become just a sword.

TLDR: I tried to summarize the similarities between Syrio and Jaquen, as well as point out the seemingly intentional disconnect between what Syrio/Jagen see and what he/they say, especially in regards to gender.

Of course this is only one side of the story, there is also the practical question of could Syrio and Jaqen be the same man, as well as the motive for doing so. I will try and address these issues in my next post, along with another cat story, this time told by Varys.

cheers

 

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I would dearly love it, if someone could explain how it would have benefited Jaqen to be chained inside a cage. Whatever he might have had in mind. Because, he is anything but inconspicuous and he is actualy chained to the floor of a cage.

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47 minutes ago, The Sleeper said:

I would dearly love it, if someone could explain how it would have benefited Jaqen to be chained inside a cage. Whatever he might have had in mind. Because, he is anything but inconspicuous and he is actualy chained to the floor of a cage.

Thanks! This is what i am trying to tell. There might be some "Conspircy" of the FM. And Jaqen might be on a mission. But the most reasonable explaination for his current situation is: He fucked up. There is just so much which could have gone terrible wrong for all this to be his super-plan.

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