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Northern_Star

Beyond the wall implications?...?..!

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We know that undead cant pass the wall. The whights can't, Benjen can't - so how will Jon be able to come back south of the wall? He's undead himself.

Will he be stuck or will the show ignore this " little" inconvenience? /discuss 

Edited by Northern_Star

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I mostly think that the show is just ignoring what may be a little more complex in the books for tv's sake, but you raise a good point.  The same would apply to Beric.  I can only assume that because Jon was reborn in fire by R'hllor that is why he wouldn't have the issues that Coldhands Benjen has crossing back south of the wall.

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Well, ShowBenjen told Bran last season he wasn't able to pass the wall. Benjen has not been resurrected by "the others". Ithink they will have to address this - otherwise it'll look like a continuity issue. 

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Wasn't he stopped from going full wight by the children giving him a shot of dragonglass to the heart as he was in the process of turning?  Strictly talking about show Benjen.  I think that would have qualified as being of the ice variety as opposed to Beric and Jon's fire resurrection of R'hllor's last kiss ritual.  Either way I agree with you in that I'd prefer if they explained it.

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7 hours ago, Northern_Star said:

We know that undead cant pass the wall. The whights can't, Benjen can't - so how will Jon be able to come back south of the wall? He's undead himself.

Will he be stuck or will the show ignore this " little" inconvenience? /discuss 

Jon is revived differently. 

Jon isn’t defined as ‘undead’ in the show as far as I know. Yes he is resurrected, but with fire magic. The WW were created with CotF magic & dragonglass, just like Benjen.

 

The wall also has Magic in it and is from the aftermath of the first long night. The magic that was implemented was most likely done (partly) by CotF. In that case it would make sense that the WW can’t pass it (if the CotF were able to create the WW, I guess it’s not that hard to believe that their magic is also able to hold them back).

 

However, it isn’t very likely there are spells in the wall that prevent resurrected people with (fire) magic (or the firegod w/e). It wasn’t the function of the wall to stop ‘that kind of undead’.  

Edit: removed an insuranty from my part after checking it. 

Edited by Attitude

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Jon and Beric died and got resurrected south of the Wall. I doubt crossing north of the wall will somehow keep them trapped beyond the Wall. I think the magic applies to the ones affected by the WW.

Edited by Eddard Scissorhands

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Jon and Baeric were resurrected.  They can still think for themselves, feel emotion, have the same physical needs of other humans (I think).  Wights are nothing more than reanimated corpses.

My problem with continuity in the show is that in season 1 that dead ranger reanimated within Castle Black grounds, but Benjen can't go into CB when the process wasn't even completed in him?  how can that be?

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1 hour ago, SansaJonRule said:

Jon and Baeric were resurrected.  They can still think for themselves, feel emotion, have the same physical needs of other humans (I think).  Wights are nothing more than reanimated corpses.

My problem with continuity in the show is that in season 1 that dead ranger reanimated within Castle Black grounds, but Benjen can't go into CB when the process wasn't even completed in him?  how can that be?

Baeric and Benjen are identical in my opinion, we don't know how resurrected Benjen. He portraits still human traits as does Baeric but im pretty sure both of them eat nor sleep. (based on the book/ coldhands)

The Zombie Rangers at Castle Black happens in the book ,too - they had been brought in tho.

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2 minutes ago, Northern_Star said:

Baeric and Benjen are identical in my opinion, we don't know how resurrected Benjen. He portraits still human traits as does Baeric but im pretty sure both of them eat nor sleep. (based on the book/ coldhands)

The Zombie Rangers at Castle Black happens in the book ,too - they had been brought in tho.

Did you mean who?  Cuz he said it was the CotF and that they stopped the WW's magic from taking hold complely, so he was not resurrected.

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18 minutes ago, SansaJonRule said:

Did you mean who?  Cuz he said it was the CotF and that they stopped the WW's magic from taking hold complely, so he was not resurrected.

yes, I did mean who.

Oh I cant remember that, was that season 6? The show is just too shallow on thus things. 

I could understand if the wights couldn't pass the wall, because they are more or less remote-controlled by the others. And the wall is like a giant signal blocker that they can't pass.

Benjen on the other hand has his own free will, but he cant pass either. Simply saying its a different sort of magic doesnt really cut it for me 

 

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Just a theory:

If the WW were created by children of the forest and they can't cross the Wall, it makes kind of sense to me that Benjen (not created but resurrected by children) and wights (linked to WW's power and so indirectly to children) can't cross it either. On the other hand, Beric and Jon aren't linked to children at all, so the same rule doesn't apply.

But do you think that the WW can't cross the Wall only from the north, or they cannot cross it from the south either? Like they are trapped south or north of the Wall unable to cross it, or the barrier is only blocking them from going south of the Wall and once they are there, they can freely move over the whole land?

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2 hours ago, Nerevanin said:

Just a theory:

If the WW were created by children of the forest and they can't cross the Wall, it makes kind of sense to me that Benjen (not created but resurrected by children) and wights (linked to WW's power and so indirectly to children) can't cross it either. On the other hand, Beric and Jon aren't linked to children at all, so the same rule doesn't apply.

But do you think that the WW can't cross the Wall only from the north, or they cannot cross it from the south either? Like they are trapped south or north of the Wall unable to cross it, or the barrier is only blocking them from going south of the Wall and once they are there, they can freely move over the whole land?

Agreed on the first part. Pretty much state the same (in more words) a little above.

 The second part; I think it works both ways, but  if somehow the spells are broken or the wall comes down, they can move back and forth.

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14 hours ago, Northern_Star said:

Oh I cant remember that, was that season 6? The show is just too shallow on thus things. 

I could understand if the wights couldn't pass the wall, because they are more or less remote-controlled by the others. And the wall is like a giant signal blocker that they can't pass.

Benjen on the other hand has his own free will, but he cant pass either. Simply saying its a different sort of magic doesnt really cut it for me 

 

Yes, S6 when Benjen, Bran and Meera were eating around a fire at night, he told them that the CotF stopped the WW magic from taking hold.  I guess the fact that he was touched by it at all is what prevents him being able to pass the wall.

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The Wall was bound and constructed with magic and spells thus stopping any WW and Wight crossing into Westeros.

Benjen stark was saved by the CotF and maybe the 3ER. He was saved in a similar way the CotF made the first WW, creating a version of WW.

Benjen still has some wight in him making him half dead. This therefore stops him travelling South meaning he is stuck North of the Wall.

 

Id therefore imagine the magic used to resurrect Beric and Jon are completely different to the magic, bound into the Wall, that is used to stop the WW and AoD. 

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What if the act of a WW being brought through the wall by a member of the NW (considering JS might still qualify for the purposes of the spells of Bran the Builder) breaks the spell?

 

Their bring a WW through causes a cascade failure of the wall itself?

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6 hours ago, Col Cinders said:

What if the act of a WW being brought through the wall by a member of the NW (considering JS might still qualify for the purposes of the spells of Bran the Builder) breaks the spell?

 

Their bring a WW through causes a cascade failure of the wall itself?

Well we had two wights in season 1... nothing happened.

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In the first season they brought a man back to Castleblack. The man whose hand was found by Ghost. He came back with blue eyes at castleblack... He was able to pass the wall because he wasn't alreay resurected by the others... ONce he's resurected, then he cannot pass the wall... But I don't know where this silly thing is taking us... Plus, WHY THE HELL would JON and Company go beyond the wall WITHOUT horses? WHAT? They go beyond the wall to catch a dead and take him back ? how? By carrying him on their backs? or ...? I'm confused!! They were walking as if they were just taking their vows or as if Jon was going to meet with Mance Rayder few meters away... Crazy...

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6 hours ago, Being Daenerys Targaryen said:

In WHY THE HELL would JON and Company go beyond the wall WITHOUT horses? WHAT? 

Maybe logistics of having horses wherever they are filming?  Too dangerous for the horses maybe?

Not sure where they film the scenes set beyond the wall.  

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I think the terrain is probably the biggest reason not to take horses, considering that Winter is in full swing... there's probably a lot of very deep snow & ice. They'll need to do some climbing no doubt. Horses could be a burden.

Edited by Fiery Heart

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On 8/15/2017 at 6:45 PM, Northern_Star said:

We know that undead cant pass the wall. The whights can't, Benjen can't - so how will Jon be able to come back south of the wall? He's undead himself.

Will he be stuck or will the show ignore this " little" inconvenience? /discuss 

last show Jon said "we're on the same side, we're still breathing" they didn't make him a wight in the show

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