Jump to content

Archived

This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.

Skahaz mo Kandaq

Jon will never be king.

Recommended Posts

6 minutes ago, Dawn of Fyre said:

One way D& D can resolve this infertility issue is the fact that both Jon and Daenerys have been touched by magic. Dany in her rebirth, and Jon through his resurrection. In both cases, fire was involved, whether physically or otherwise. The fact that Jon is also Targaryen could be what allows her to conceive a child should they have sex - maybe he is the only who can impregnate her? Since they both believe she is infertile, he won't be on his 'pullout' game :P Also, the reason Targaryen have been keeping their bloodline pure is to keep their strong connection with the dragons. This is the most logical outcome, I think.

And the Targaryen Dynasty must continue. :)

I think this is exactly what will happen, them magical targs

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
30 minutes ago, Crona said:

Did she take any contraceptives when she was with Daario? If not then she should've had a kid with him if she was fertile. But I do think she will magically become fertile with Jon

Why are we assuming that it's Dany's fault for not getting pregnant? 

Maybe Daario is shooting blanks. ;)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
5 minutes ago, Lurid Jester said:

Why are we assuming that it's Dany's fault for not getting pregnant? 

Maybe Daario is shooting blanks. ;)

Lol true, I don't it has ever said that he had any children either

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
9 hours ago, the tower of albion said:

Every one is satisfied with the pact of ice and fire - Jon and Dany

But Jon is both ice and fire - Dany, on the other hand, is pure fire

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, Crona said:

As of now Dany can't reproduce, so the dynasty would die from her end, unless Jon reproduces with another woman. However, he has died already once don't know if he can still have children....

Guess that leaves Tyrion after Jon legitimizes him once he hears the real story from Bran. :=}

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
27 minutes ago, CrypticWeirwood said:

Guess that leaves Tyrion after Jon legitimizes him once he hears the real story from Bran. :=}

Seven hells! So many lineages depend on that man

Lol if Tyrion becomes a legitimized targ and he can possibly ride a dragon, he will ditch Dany so fast.

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
36 minutes ago, CrypticWeirwood said:

Guess that leaves Tyrion after Jon legitimizes him once he hears the real story from Bran. :=}

Tyrion and Jon are going to reproduce? Woah, being resurrected sure wrought a lot more changes in Jon than I thought.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
8 hours ago, Lurid Jester said:

It took Davos what, two or three episodes to learn to read?  Now he's correcting everyone's grammar.  Gendry can learn to read.

Also... how would he be just like Robert?  He wasn't raised by Robert.  He never knew Robert.  

Besides, I added Sansa into the mix.  She can do the heavy lifting when it comes to playing the game of thrones and actually ruling.  Gendry can handle the heavy lifting when it comes to... uh... lifting heavy things.  

Theres also Arya.  You know she'd be on the small council. Master of whispers indeed.  

It would be hard to put a bastard of dubious parentage on the throne, most of lords would have a stroke at the very thought. I'm still surprised that Jon was chosen as KiTN despite his parentage, but at this point he was their military commander (at least to the wildlings and the northmen) and Ned is held in much more regard than Robert is- everyone knew what a shitty King he was. Plus, if it were revealed that he is Rhaegars and Lyannas bastard, he'd still be more preferable to Gendry, because Jons mother is a highborn. Unless Jon dies first, but then, Dany would have a better claim both by birthright and by having an army and weapons. Gendry was never acknowledged by Robert, and only Stannis and Davos considered him of any importance. 

I can see Gendry being legitimised and being the next Stormlord, though. If he should prove himself in the battle against WW and given that legit  Baratheons are extinct, he's a good solution.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
9 hours ago, CrypticWeirwood said:

Maybe they did it because.......

wait for it....

Martin did it.

People never think of that.

Well he didn't yet because the books haven't come out...
Maybe he is planning to do it, maybe when they talked about the story more than 6 years ago he was thinking of doing it? Maybe since then he has changed his mind? Maybe D&D have a dart board with different ideas from around the office and just throw darts at it and that's how they make the story? Maybe D&D take a shit in the toilet and read what it says. Maybe this or that...
I don't care who does it, as long as D&D explains it and why it is important (since they will obviously beat Martin to it). But judging on what they have done the past year or so, I doubt it. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, the tower of albion said:

Well his real father was. :)

his biological father was mostly valyrian though not of andal/firstmen mix. I am biased toward the faith of the seven so i want a southron(andal/firstmen) king. Not a dornish one either.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
13 hours ago, Intel XEON said:

Jon is a breaker of vows and a deserter.  It made no sense at all that the lord of the north elected him king.  Which is not legitimate because those people had no right to choose their own king.  They are all subjects of Westeros.

Dany is doing exactly what any victor in battle would do.  Anybody, including Ned, Robert, and Aegon would demand the loser to bend the knee. 

Not a breaker of vows, not a deserter.  He pledged his life, and he gave his life.  They do have the power to choose, they chose rebellion against the Lannisters, and in doing so, chose their King.  That's kinda how rebellion works...legitimacy depends only on where you are standing and with whom.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 hours ago, DarkBastard said:

Not a breaker of vows, not a deserter.  He pledged his life, and he gave his life.  They do have the power to choose, they chose rebellion against the Lannisters, and in doing so, chose their King.  That's kinda how rebellion works...legitimacy depends only on where you are standing and with whom.

That makes Jon a rebel, and therefore, his "kingship" is unlawful.  Jon is an outlaw.   And this jerk comes down to the south, asks for help, and refuses to bend the knee.  

Jon didn't give his life because he's obviously still walking around.  He's still bound by the oaths, to father no children, to stay at the wall, to hold no kingdoms,  etc.  A person's debts are not written off just because his heart stopped for a few minutes during surgery and was revived later on.  This is such a silly notion to think that temporary death relieves the person from all of their obligations.  So if Cersei's heart were to stop beating and Qyburn somehow performs CPR to bring her back around the Iron Bank will forgive the loans?  No way.  

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 minute ago, Widowmaker 811 said:

That makes Jon a rebel, and therefore, his "kingship" is unlawful.  Jon is an outlaw.   And this jerk comes down to the south, asks for help, and refuses to bend the knee.  

Jon didn't give his life because he's obviously still walking around.  He's still bound by the oaths, to father no children, to stay at the wall, to hold no kingdoms,  etc.  A person's debts are not written off just because his heart stopped for a few minutes during surgery and was revived later on.  This is such a silly notion to think that temporary death relieves the person from all of their obligations.  So if Cersei's heart were to stop beating and Qyburn somehow performs CPR to bring her back around the Iron Bank will forgive the loans?  No way.  

It's like you have t even watched the show. 

You're comparing being stabbed multiple times, once directly into the heart, being confirmed a corpse by multiple people for an indeterminant amount of time only to be brought back to life with magic...

...to being revived with CPR? 

Seriously?  What's with your seemingly irrational hate-on for the Starks?  

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 minutes ago, Widowmaker 811 said:

That makes Jon a rebel, and therefore, his "kingship" is unlawful.  Jon is an outlaw.   And this jerk comes down to the south, asks for help, and refuses to bend the knee.  

Jon didn't give his life because he's obviously still walking around.  He's still bound by the oaths, to father no children, to stay at the wall, to hold no kingdoms,  etc.  A person's debts are not written off just because his heart stopped for a few minutes during surgery and was revived later on.  This is such a silly notion to think that temporary death relieves the person from all of their obligations.  So if Cersei's heart were to stop beating and Qyburn somehow performs CPR to bring her back around the Iron Bank will forgive the loans?  No way.  

He isn't an outlaw, he is a rebel.  It was more than a few minutes, and he was stabbed in the heart  He was dead for at least 24 hours (probably closer to 48, but I wasn't there with an egg timer)...and then resurrected...not resuscitated.  Robert Baratheon was declared lawful King through right of conquest.  Technically, Dany is a rebel as well.  They have both showed up and said "I'm King/Queen" in a land that is currently under another ruler. Why would one rebel bend the knee to another?  If she took the iron throne through conquest, then she could have a right to demand fealty.  By your logic, they should both bend the knee to Cersei. Your logic is flawed.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Yes he will. 

The Iron Throne itself will likely be destroyed before this is over, and Jon and Dany are both very much interested in bringing democracy to the land, after all, she left The Bay of Dragons to choose their own leaders and Jon saw how well the Night's Watch managed to choose their own leaders for centuries, but it won't happen immediately. They'll usher it in... and Jon will likely also be Last of his Name in the History of Westeros Monarchy.... but I think he will be King.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
8 hours ago, DarkBastard said:

He isn't an outlaw, he is a rebel.  It was more than a few minutes, and he was stabbed in the heart  He was dead for at least 24 hours (probably closer to 48, but I wasn't there with an egg timer)...and then resurrected...not resuscitated.  Robert Baratheon was declared lawful King through right of conquest.  Technically, Dany is a rebel as well.  They have both showed up and said "I'm King/Queen" in a land that is currently under another ruler. Why would one rebel bend the knee to another?  If she took the iron throne through conquest, then she could have a right to demand fealty.  By your logic, they should both bend the knee to Cersei. Your logic is flawed.

Jon's hardly even a rebel because there is not a fully legitimate ruler sitting on the Iron Throne. Cersei was "only" married to the king (a Baratheon), and once he died, power went to other Baratheon males, Joffrey and then Tommen, passing over her. She is on the throne now, in a self-proclaimed queen role, because there is essentially a power vacuum. She doesn't have the military strength to control nor political support of all 7 kingdoms so for all intents and purposes, she is only a ruler of King's Landing and Lannister lands. Jon actually has a stronger position as KitN because he was elected by acclamation by an assembly of Northern lords. They are not bound by any fealty to a ruler who is not a Baratheon.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
14 hours ago, Princess_of_Sunspear said:

It would be hard to put a bastard of dubious parentage on the throne, most of lords would have a stroke at the very thought. I'm still surprised that Jon was chosen as KiTN despite his parentage, but at this point he was their military commander (at least to the wildlings and the northmen) and Ned is held in much more regard than Robert is- everyone knew what a shitty King he was. Plus, if it were revealed that he is Rhaegars and Lyannas bastard, he'd still be more preferable to Gendry, because Jons mother is a highborn. Unless Jon dies first, but then, Dany would have a better claim both by birthright and by having an army and weapons. Gendry was never acknowledged by Robert, and only Stannis and Davos considered him of any importance. 

I can see Gendry being legitimised and being the next Stormlord, though. If he should prove himself in the battle against WW and given that legit  Baratheons are extinct, he's a good solution.

I was wondering the same thing over the past year or so.

But... Gilly read the passage from the book she was looking through that described a secret annulment performed alongside a marriage of that same person. We can safely surmise that the annulment was that of Rhaegar and Elia Martell and the marriage was to him and Lyanna Stark. This would make Jon a fully legitimate Targaryen and the rightful heir to the Iron Throne, in every way, shape and form.

The question is, how would they prove this to the rest of Westeros?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

×