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Centurion Piso

Excessive Fan Service, Part II

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Mr Takeda, do you need a proxy here on westeros.org?

1) Surely you know that different types of fighting can beat even the best of other types of fighting.  The size, speed and agility of Arya (and the waif) is nothing Brienne has trained for nor has probably ever seen in battle.  Though I defer to the idea Arya could not so amazing, she had not spent ENOUGH time training in the House to be that good, it is not out of possibility she could equal Briene. 

Different styles.

2) No Comment

3) I'm not going near "Sansa" again right now

4) HBO decided to end the show and they had to cut off plot points (like Dorne) to end the show with even a bit of honor.  They did not expand because they had to start condensing in order to conclude the show.  UNFORTUNATELY

5) Bringing the dead to Cersei for proof hoping she would act rationally is insanity to whoever thought it up.

5) Team "Kill Bronn Yesterday" is in effect.  I hate Bronn and will no longer tolerate his presence in GOT.

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11 hours ago, Aline de Gavrillac said:

Oops.. not the OP. Sorry.. wrong tag.

Have you talked to the "simple" people who watch the show? They hate any character development. They continuously whine when episodes lack action and how they slept through it

They like bewbs,

They still don't know the name of all the characters (except a blonde wonan they refer to as Khaleesi. She is Daenerys dammit !!) 

They will be more happy to see hardcore action and dragons any day over common sense. They dont care if a dragon travels the world in a day or the pathetic dialogue or the lack of continuity.

BAM BAM.. action..bewbs.. more action.

I assume that that comprises of around 6 million people.

Starting from 2 million book fans from season 1, to 10 million in season 7. I assume that the show probably brought in 2 million more true fans.

The channel cares about this 6 million. They generate adv revenue.

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1 minute ago, Illiterati said:

You say bewbs as if it were a bad thing....

If it is pointless... YES..

A whore showing her boobs, or any character in a private room showing her boobs is justified.

Boobs just for the sake of saying the "bad pussy" dialogue is pathetic. (They were nice btw)

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2 hours ago, Illiterati said:

I don't understand the Bronn hate.  I don't think he's significant enough to warrant hate.  He's a sidekick for rent.

The hate is probably because he lived so long and because he fights for the "wrong" side and never loses. Though GoT stayed far away from the good guy always wins....

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10 hours ago, Iron Mother said:

Mr Takeda, do you need a proxy here on westeros.org?

1) Surely you know that different types of fighting can beat even the best of other types of fighting.  The size, speed and agility of Arya (and the waif) is nothing Brienne has trained for nor has probably ever seen in battle.  Though I defer to the idea Arya could not so amazing, she had not spent ENOUGH time training in the House to be that good, it is not out of possibility she could equal Briene. 

Different styles.

2) No Comment

3) I'm not going near "Sansa" again right now

4) HBO decided to end the show and they had to cut off plot points (like Dorne) to end the show with even a bit of honor.  They did not expand because they had to start condensing in order to conclude the show.  UNFORTUNATELY

5) Bringing the dead to Cersei for proof hoping she would act rationally is insanity to whoever thought it up.

5) Team "Kill Bronn Yesterday" is in effect.  I hate Bronn and will no longer tolerate his presence in GOT.

As to point 5, I agree that the wight hunt seems like a daft plan.  I would make this exception, however: it is true that Tyrion should know very well that Cersei will not cooperate after seeing a wight.  It is also true that Tyrion should know very well that Jamie is far more likely to cooperate in fighting an existential threat to the Seven Kingdoms.  Tyrion's plan might be an attempt to split Cersei and Jamie. That would be a much less daft, and potentially a very clever, plan.

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1 hour ago, Illiterati said:

Does Tyrion realize the depth of depravity into which Cersei has sunk, far beyond where she was when he escaped?

He has to know, since Hot Pie knows, that she blew up the Sept of Baylor, and he also almost certainly knows that she killed her cousin and uncle and that Tommen was either flung or jumped as a result of Marg being killed also.  So, I think the answer has to be: yes.  Which, makes the fact that he even contemplates she might not blackstab Dany and Jon totally nuts.  He is the worst hand ever at this point.  

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1 hour ago, Forlong the Fat said:

As to point 5, I agree that the wight hunt seems like a daft plan.  I would make this exception, however: it is true that Tyrion should know very well that Cersei will not cooperate after seeing a wight.  It is also true that Tyrion should know very well that Jamie is far more likely to cooperate in fighting an existential threat to the Seven Kingdoms.  Tyrion's plan might be an attempt to split Cersei and Jamie. That would be a much less daft, and potentially a very clever, plan.

This is about the only way it makes sense to me. Tyrion thinks the wight plan is a way to protect Jamie.

  • If Dany attacks Cersei outright, Jamie will go down with her.
  • If Cersei is moved by the threat and agrees to an armistice, all good.
  • If Cersei doesn't care, Tyrion is betting on Jamie being moved and bringing his armies over to the "right side" without Cersei.

Although, the second Tyrion brought up talking to Jamie, the conversion should have gone like this:

Dany: Umm.. Didn't he drown? Remember, after he charged me? He was wearing full armor, why do you think he's alive?

Tyrion: Oh, no, I was watching the whole thing. Bronn swam him to shore.

Dany: And you didn't say anything while I was rounding up survivors?

Tyrion: ...

Dany: Dracarys.

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19 minutes ago, iprayiam said:

Although, the second Tyrion brought up talking to Jamie, the conversion should have gone like this:

Dany: Umm.. Didn't he drown? Remember, after he charged me? He was wearing full armor, why do you think he's alive?

Tyrion: Oh, no, I was watching the whole thing. Bronn swam him to shore.

Dany: And you didn't say anything while I was rounding up survivors?

Tyrion: ...

Dany: Dracarys.

So damned true.  

In my head canon it was a raging rapids that was flowing by, and the current tumbled them a mile away.  

You know... instead of what really happened.  

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6 minutes ago, Lurid Jester said:

So damned true.  

In my head canon it was a raging rapids that was flowing by, and the current tumbled them a mile away.  

You know... instead of what really happened.  

Gestalt theory at its finest.

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23 minutes ago, Illiterati said:

Gestalt theory at its finest.

Also both Drogon and Dany suffered a moment of object impermanence.  

Since they vanished below the surface of the water... totally forgotten.  

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1 minute ago, Lurid Jester said:

Also both Drogon and Dany suffered a moment of object impermanence.  

Since they vanished below the surface of the water... totally forgotten.  

Nice.....

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Honestly I could stomach the fan service if it was done in a somewhat logical and internally consistent way.  I don't care if Jaime and Bronn live as long as it plays out on screen in a believable way, not that garbage.  Same goes for the cave paintings and secret greyscale cure.  Of course anything that has to do with Cercei is indefensible since they seem to have altered the story just to keep her around since they like Lena Headey so much.  Not sure why talking through clenched teeth is such an incredible talent but whatever. 

The big problem is that in order for anything we see on screen to make any sort of sense you have to engage in mental gymnastics and make crazy assumptions about things happening off screen.  Like Arya last season in Braavos, as everything was happening people on here were concocting elaborate explanations to make sense of what we were seeing and in the end there was nothing more to it than met the eye.

The plan to catch a wight is just a dumb plan, no secret reasoning no underlying motives.  Just a plot contrivance.  It's like if you stopped a chess game between two masters right in the middle and swapped them out with two people who don't even know the rules, they just know which pieces are supposed to be left at the end.  Sure a knight might move like a rook and a pawn might take a few steps backwards, but those are just annoying details.

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6 hours ago, Forlong the Fat said:

As to point 5, I agree that the wight hunt seems like a daft plan.  I would make this exception, however: it is true that Tyrion should know very well that Cersei will not cooperate after seeing a wight.  It is also true that Tyrion should know very well that Jamie is far more likely to cooperate in fighting an existential threat to the Seven Kingdoms.  Tyrion's plan might be an attempt to split Cersei and Jamie. That would be a much less daft, and potentially a very clever, plan.

I hope this is what is going on. I am so disappointed with Tyrions arc this season, the dumbing down of Tyrion Lannister.

 

4 hours ago, Lurid Jester said:

So damned true.  

In my head canon it was a raging rapids that was flowing by, and the current tumbled them a mile away.  

You know... instead of what really happened.  

Haha this is what I kind of thought in my head too. Ive been using my head cannon ( is that the right expression ?) a lot this season.

 

4 hours ago, Bear42 said:

Honestly I could stomach the fan service if it was done in a somewhat logical and internally consistent way.  I don't care if Jaime and Bronn live as long as it plays out on screen in a believable way, not that garbage.  Same goes for the cave paintings and secret greyscale cure.  Of course anything that has to do with Cercei is indefensible since they seem to have altered the story just to keep her around since they like Lena Headey so much.  Not sure why talking through clenched teeth is such an incredible talent but whatever. 

The big problem is that in order for anything we see on screen to make any sort of sense you have to engage in mental gymnastics and make crazy assumptions about things happening off screen.  Like Arya last season in Braavos, as everything was happening people on here were concocting elaborate explanations to make sense of what we were seeing and in the end there was nothing more to it than met the eye.

The plan to catch a wight is just a dumb plan, no secret reasoning no underlying motives.  Just a plot contrivance.  It's like if you stopped a chess game between two masters right in the middle and swapped them out with two people who don't even know the rules, they just know which pieces are supposed to be left at the end.  Sure a knight might move like a rook and a pawn might take a few steps backwards, but those are just annoying details.

Good post Bear42. Agree.  Thanks for the bolded I had a good laugh ! 

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10 hours ago, Illiterati said:

I don't understand the Bronn hate.  I don't think he's significant enough to warrant hate.  He's a sidekick for rent.

He hurt Drogon; therefore, in the opinion of this Daenerys fanboy, Bronn is a shithead who deserves to die a horrible death.

I wish Ramsay was still alive to flay Bronn slowly and rub him with salt every once in a while.  Mr. Bolton can feed him to his dogs after he's been seasoned and marinated enough.

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The first time the fan service really struck me was when Tyrion met with Dany in Mereen. As much as I want them to meet in the books that just felt like fan service and I didn't like it. I don't want to be catered to, I want the real story. But other commentators on this thread are correct that some of the blame does lie with George. The writers of the show were meant to be adapting his story and if he doesn't have a story for them to adapt...

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8 minutes ago, Bowen Marsh said:

He hurt Drogon; therefore, in the opinion of this Daenerys fanboy, Bronn is a shithead who deserves to die a horrible death.

I'm not a Dany fanboy (I don't really root for anyone), but I am annoyed that the Smauginator worked. It's well established that it's much harder than that to pierce dragon scales, and artillery is only useful if you hit the dragon in the eye. And a scorpion is a pretty weak piece of artillery, about 1000 years out of date for the general tech level, something any apprentice could slap together if he had an ancient history book, not some super-weapon that should change everything. (It's also the same weapon that took out Meraxes—but the bolts bounced off until they got a direct hit in the eye. They didn't pierce the shoulder and force a landing.) And Bronn is a swordsman, not an artillerist, which is a completely different and unrelated skill. And… OK, I'm done ranting.

1 hour ago, princess_snow said:

Ive been using my head cannon ( is that the right expression ?)

I think you mean "head canon" (a head cannon is a face-mounted gunpowder-fired artillery piece, which might be a very useful thing to have if you were within range of D&D when you were pissed at them, but at home all it can do is put a hole in your TV), but otherwise, yeah, head canon is what you meant: stuff you treat as part of the canonical story, to fill in gaps and make sense of things, even though it only exists inside your own head.

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Kind of delusional. The reality is far more people will watch and remember the show than will ever reed the book. EVER. It's like that with every adaption. More people saw Jaws than read the book. More people saw The Godfather than read the book. More people watched a James Bond movie than read any of the books. 

This is the most popular show on television for a generation. It's going to be watched forever. Same with shows like the Sopranos and Seinfeld and Friends. It's more accessible and easier to consume. The other reality is, the way to optimize the books was to have them all released before or as the show aired. More people will read the books and stop and never pick up the new ones just because it's likely the series won't finish at a minimum for 5 years after the show ends. 

To most people this is the story the most people will know. Harry Potter was massively popular and more popular than ASOIAF years before the movies came out and was released as the movies came out. It was the most popular book series possibly since LOTR if we are being completely honest. More people watched the movies. 

In fact I bet there are more people alive today who watched the LOTR movies than read the books. 

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