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Hodor's Aunt

Who inspired Rhaegar?

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I guess that somebody had to plant the idea into Rhaegar's brain that he needed to father the Prince who was promised. Maybe he even got the information that the Other (or the night king in the show) were about to gather their troops and rise again.

My bet is, that the 3ER put all those ideas in the head of Rhaegar.

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In the books, it's definitely something from a scroll he read, and some even theorize that he met the Ghost of High Heart herself. 

On the show, there's no mention of the prophecy and Rhaegar's knowledge of it at all, so show!Rhaegar's actions seem to be purely motivated by love for Lyanna Stark. He probably had no intention of siring the Prince that Was Promised at all, dude just wanted to get laid. 

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1 hour ago, purple-eyes said:

Lyanna's pretty face and hot ass? 

I sincerely doubt he would have paid much attention to her if she had not donned an armor and entered in the lists.

Lyanna was no Cersei or Ashara after all, i bet Elia was prettier than her as well.

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I think the Targaryens (may be all Valyrians) are descendants of Azor Ahoi. Its their ancient dynastic mandate to keep the Blood the Dragon strong until the White Walkers rise again, and then bring Ice and Fire together to defeat them. Too many quaint co-incidences -

1. Valyrian Steel of all things happens to destroy White Walkers

2. The biggest repository of Obsidian just happens to be under the ancient Targaryen Stronghold

3. Aegon unites the seven kingdoms a relatively short time (compared to the thousands of years of Valyrian domination) before the White Walker invasion

4. Dragons and White Walkers both happen to come in to the picture at the same time. Aegon V also tried to use fire to hatch his Dragon eggs earlier, but failed miserably.

Perhaps it was forgotten due to all the violence of the Dance, and manipulation by the Septons and Maesters,until they were reminded by people like the Ghost of High Heart and Brynden Rivers / Three-eyed Raven.

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It's quite simple to me.  Show version is:

11 hours ago, purple-eyes said:

Lyanna's pretty face and hot ass? 

Because there are no details about Rhaegar thinking he was TPTWP or him saying the dragon needs 3 heads, he just liked to be mysterious, sing, get drunk with Barry, and pass over his wife for some northern strange.  Sounds like an awesome life, no wonder D&D didn't try to complicate it.

Book version is:

12 hours ago, Pigeon Pie said:

definitely something from a scroll he read

And he decides he must be a knight, and conveniently uses this prophecy to pass over his wife for some northern strange.

BTW I am always curious how people consistently say "Rhaegar was obsessed with prophecy" like 24/7 that was the only thing he ever thought about or motivated him.  He was still a man.  He probably liked singing and drinking and playing with his kids and making love to a beautiful lady.  These things probably motivated him as much on a daily basis.  Likely a relatively good dude who, in my opinion (not everyone's opinion, just mine) did a really selfish dickish thing that had the unintended consequence of throwing the realm into chaos and ending the Targaryen dynasty.  I'm pretty sure he could have found a prophecy to tell him not to do that if he was so obsessed.

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50 minutes ago, Lucius Lovejoy said:

It's quite simple to me.  Show version is:

Because there are no details about Rhaegar thinking he was TPTWP or him saying the dragon needs 3 heads, he just liked to be mysterious, sing, get drunk with Barry, and pass over his wife for some northern strange.  Sounds like an awesome life, no wonder D&D didn't try to complicate it.

Book version is:

And he decides he must be a knight, and conveniently uses this prophecy to pass over his wife for some northern strange.

BTW I am always curious how people consistently say "Rhaegar was obsessed with prophecy" like 24/7 that was the only thing he ever thought about or motivated him.  He was still a man.  He probably liked singing and drinking and playing with his kids and making love to a beautiful lady.  These things probably motivated him as much on a daily basis.  Likely a relatively good dude who, in my opinion (not everyone's opinion, just mine) did a really selfish dickish thing that had the unintended consequence of throwing the realm into chaos and ending the Targaryen dynasty.  I'm pretty sure he could have found a prophecy to tell him not to do that if he was so obsessed.

^^^all of this. 

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It is kind of ironic if you think like this:  

If Knight of Laughing tree is a girl like Brienne of Tarth (very ugly and huge) instead of Lyanna (young and pretty), will Rhaegar still run off with her and father a child by her? 

Or in other words, if Lyanna looks like Brienne, will Rhaegar do the same thing? 

 

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Evryhting is the Lord's will...

Kinvara

 

Rhaegar's parents were married because a forest witch prophesied that the PtwP would come for the  line of Aerys and Rhaella Targaryen. Rhaegar used to believe that he is the PtwP, a belief shared by Maester Aemon. That's why he became a warrior.. He read about a prophecy about the PtwP should be a warrior. He later thought that it was his son Aegon. He had 2 children Aegon and Rhaenys, but he needed one more.. He knew that the the dragon has three heads. Maybe he saw something in Lyanna Stark that made him think that the child of him and Lyanna would be the third head.

As I said everthing is the Lord's will. Terrible things happens for a reason. When Rhaegar kidnapped/or whatever Lyanna he started a war that lead to the end of the reign house Targaryen, and to the exile of the 2 remaining children of King Aerys. If Daenerys wasn't exiled she would never give birth to dragons. If the Mad King never burned Brandon Stark, Ned wouldn't marry Catelyn and the Last Greenseer, the Three Eyed Raven would never be born.. If Jon didn't grew up as a bastard he would never join the Nights Watch to learn about the truth, the WW, and bring the Mother of Dragon to the North to fight them.

Most important characters: Bran, Daenerys, Jon

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It's heavily implied that he read the prophecy through one of the many books/scrolls he read as a youth.  The one that would contain information where the prince that was promised would be born out of Aerys' lineage. 

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23 minutes ago, Nic. said:

It's heavily implied that he read the prophecy through one of the many books/scrolls he read as a youth.  The one that would contain information where the prince that was promised would be born out of Aerys' lineage. 

I don't think that was written in a book.. That was a prophecy by a forest witch

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16 hours ago, theMADdestScientist_ said:

I sincerely doubt he would have paid much attention to her if she had not donned an armor and entered in the lists.

Lyanna was no Cersei or Ashara after all, i bet Elia was prettier than her as well.

Where did you get that? 

Lyanna was generally described as beautiful. And Robert was madly in love with her. Does Robert sound like the kind of guy who would fall in love with someone of mediocre appearance? Ned claims Robert never knew Lyanna, he was just in love with her looks. And isn't there a bit in the books in which Arya feels bad for being mocked by Sansa and her friends and someone (Ned? I don't remember) comforts her saying that she resembles Lyanna and will grow up to be as beautiful as she was? 

There was one maester who described Lyanna as wild and boyish and not delicately beautiful like Elia, but that's one person's opinion and every other character remembers Lyanna as beautiful. 

3 hours ago, purple-eyes said:

It is kind of ironic if you think like this:  

If Knight of Laughing tree is a girl like Brienne of Tarth (very ugly and huge) instead of Lyanna (young and pretty), will Rhaegar still run off with her and father a child by her? 

Or in other words, if Lyanna looks like Brienne, will Rhaegar do the same thing? 

 

Nope. Lyanna was beautiful and wild (she had the "wolf-blood" - which is described as "blood of the dragon" in other families - point is, she was fierce and fiery) and Rhaegar fell for her. 

I mean Lyanna supposedly entered the lists and defeated a bunch of practiced men in jousting and Rhaegar was like oh my god is unattractive girl is so badass and empowered and independent and strong and intelligent and smart, oh let me piss off half the kingdom and run off with her because I can't live without that level of awesome. Rhaegar was a man. He fancied Lyanna. (Even if there were more beautiful women in the history of Westeros, Lyanna was beautiful enough in rhaegar's opinion at least) 

And let's not confuse Lyanna and Arya just because they have some similarities. Yes, Lyanna was wild and a killer rider, but she also loved flowers and cried on Rhaegar's song. I don't remember Arya picking flowers and crying on songs. Lyanna wasn't a one dimensional tomboy. (Nor is Arya, but you get what I mean)

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1 hour ago, RhaenysB said:

I don't remember Arya picking flowers and crying on songs.

I do, i remember Arya being quite interested in flowers.

 

Arya shrugged. “Hold still,” she snapped at Nymeria, “I’m not hurting you.” Then to Sansa she said, “When we were crossing the Neck, I counted thirty-six flowers I never saw before, and Mycah showed me a lizard-lion.”

One day she came back grinning her horsey grin, her hair all tangled and her clothes covered in mud, clutching a raggedy bunch of purple and green flowers for Father. Sansa kept hoping he would tell Arya to behave herself and act like the highborn lady she was supposed to be, but he never did, he only hugged her and thanked her for the flowers.

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7 hours ago, purple-eyes said:

It is kind of ironic if you think like this:  

If Knight of Laughing tree is a girl like Brienne of Tarth (very ugly and huge) instead of Lyanna (young and pretty), will Rhaegar still run off with her and father a child by her? 

Or in other words, if Lyanna looks like Brienne, will Rhaegar do the same thing? 

 

Interesting.

But would Rhaegar run away with Lyanna (or a prettier girl) if he wasn't obsessed with prophesies? 

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3 hours ago, RhaenysB said:

Where did you get that? 

Lyanna was generally described as beautiful. And Robert was madly in love with her. Does Robert sound like the kind of guy who would fall in love with someone of mediocre appearance? Ned claims Robert never knew Lyanna, he was just in love with her looks. And isn't there a bit in the books in which Arya feels bad for being mocked by Sansa and her friends and someone (Ned? I don't remember) comforts her saying that she resembles Lyanna and will grow up to be as beautiful as she was? 

There was one maester who described Lyanna as wild and boyish and not delicately beautiful like Elia, but that's one person's opinion and every other character remembers Lyanna as beautiful. 

Nope. Lyanna was beautiful and wild (she had the "wolf-blood" - which is described as "blood of the dragon" in other families - point is, she was fierce and fiery) and Rhaegar fell for her. 

I mean Lyanna supposedly entered the lists and defeated a bunch of practiced men in jousting and Rhaegar was like oh my god is unattractive girl is so badass and empowered and independent and strong and intelligent and smart, oh let me piss off half the kingdom and run off with her because I can't live without that level of awesome. Rhaegar was a man. He fancied Lyanna. (Even if there were more beautiful women in the history of Westeros, Lyanna was beautiful enough in rhaegar's opinion at least) 

And let's not confuse Lyanna and Arya just because they have some similarities. Yes, Lyanna was wild and a killer rider, but she also loved flowers and cried on Rhaegar's song. I don't remember Arya picking flowers and crying on songs. Lyanna wasn't a one dimensional tomboy. (Nor is Arya, but you get what I mean)

Nope for what? did not get your point at all. 

You just need to answer that if Lyanna looks as ugly as Brienne and she still did what she did (joust and fight for Howland, etc), will Rhaegar still fall in love crazily and run off and have sex with her? 

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27 minutes ago, Apoplexy said:

Interesting.

But would Rhaegar run away with Lyanna (or a prettier girl) if he wasn't obsessed with prophesies? 

Show! Rhaegar run away with Lyanna and we were never told that he is obsessed with prophecy. 

So yes, Rhaegar ran away with Lyanna simply because he wanted to get laid (as far as we know). 

 

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17 hours ago, daemonTheBlack said:

I think the Targaryens (may be all Valyrians) are descendants of Azor Ahoi. Its their ancient dynastic mandate to keep the Blood the Dragon strong until the White Walkers rise again, and then bring Ice and Fire together to defeat them. Too many quaint co-incidences -

But much of what we understand about the story comes from the red priests believing Azor Ahai is the same person as the Last Hero, and the Last Hero was definitely a First Man who united his people with the Children of the Forest and fought the dead with obsidian in Westeros. It isn't impossible that Valyrians are descended from First Men who came back from Westeros to central Essos, but it doesn't seem that likely.

And if AA and LH aren't the same person, that changes everything. If the PtwP is actually LH reborn but not AA reborn, we shouldn't be looking for him to wield Lightbringer and the other stuff that comes from the AA myth. On the other hand, if he's AAR but not LHR, we shouldn't expect stuff like the cave on Dragonstone or the Ghost of High Heart to be relevant at all.

In fact, if AA and LH aren't the same person, that implies that all those separate myths about what happened 8000 years ago aren't just locally-flavored reflections of the War for the Dawn in Westeros, but myths of separate wars for the dawn in each realm.* In which case… doesn't eastern Essos need AAR? (It's not like the red priests have never been wrong.)

But I think there is a possibility that makes sense of your idea: If AA and LH aren't the same person, but they are people who worked together, then AA could be the ancestor of the Targaryens, and LH the ancestor of the Starks. AA came from Asshai (also rumored to be the origin of dragons) to help save the world, then left and settled halfway back home with his dragons. LH was a Westerosi who retreated from the dead, then led the advance back north, and settled where the won the war, in Winterfell. Which makes Jon the descendant of both. Maybe that's what the PtwP is—the person who can be both AAR and LHR—and Rhaegar was right. Or maybe Jon is only LHR (even though he has the blood of AA in him) and Dany is AAR (maybe because she traveled east?), and Mel was right about that whole "bringing together ice and fire" thing.

On the other hand, there's a way to explain away most of your points: AA/LH used fire magic, and that's the only connection. The Valyrians happen to be the only people who preserved fire magic in recent times; they bred dragons, kept alive the ancient magic steel, etc. And for your last point, dragons and Others both came back into the world at the same time because magic in general came back.

 

* By the way, I really want to know what followers of the Black Goat think happened 8000 years ago. Do they have a hero who saved the world by kidnapping and sacrificing the noble children of dozens of cities to create a swarm of the Black Goat's young to devour the night? Because that would be a fun story.

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10 hours ago, theMADdestScientist_ said:

I do, i remember Arya being quite interested in flowers.

 

Arya shrugged. “Hold still,” she snapped at Nymeria, “I’m not hurting you.” Then to Sansa she said, “When we were crossing the Neck, I counted thirty-six flowers I never saw before, and Mycah showed me a lizard-lion.”

One day she came back grinning her horsey grin, her hair all tangled and her clothes covered in mud, clutching a raggedy bunch of purple and green flowers for Father. Sansa kept hoping he would tell Arya to behave herself and act like the highborn lady she was supposed to be, but he never did, he only hugged her and thanked her for the flowers.

Okay right. That doesn't affect my point about Lyanna though. 

7 hours ago, purple-eyes said:

Nope for what? did not get your point at all. 

You just need to answer that if Lyanna looks as ugly as Brienne and she still did what she did (joust and fight for Howland, etc), will Rhaegar still fall in love crazily and run off and have sex with her? 

Nope for exactly this question? Nope, Rhaegar wouldn't fall in love and run off if Lyanna looked like Brienne. That was the point I chewed on for two paragraphs, not sure how you missed it.

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