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Anarch Half-Hoare

Unowned lands and keeps

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2 hours ago, Corvo the Crow said:

Tyrion handing out land and lordship as promise for help making good on his claim.

Clear enough I'd say.

Hey, I can offer you a lordship and gold, too. Tyrion is selling lies to a guy who has no idea how Westeros works. Words are wind.

Not to mention that his entire enterprise is dependent on Daenerys - or another ally of Tyrion's - sitting the Iron Throne. Without that he is never going to take and keep Casterly Rock, and if he has connections to the monarch - or serves Hand - he certainly can get hand lordships to people.

Even the Nestor Royce example doesn't include a lordship as such. Littlefinger gives him a castle, not a lordship. Lordships are only granted by the king.

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On 7/7/2018 at 9:48 AM, Lord Varys said:

Hey, I can offer you a lordship and gold, too. Tyrion is selling lies to a guy who has no idea how Westeros works. Words are wind.

Not to mention that his entire enterprise is dependent on Daenerys - or another ally of Tyrion's - sitting the Iron Throne. Without that he is never going to take and keep Casterly Rock, and if he has connections to the monarch - or serves Hand - he certainly can get hand lordships to people.

Even the Nestor Royce example doesn't include a lordship as such. Littlefinger gives him a castle, not a lordship. Lordships are only granted by the king.

We dont actually know if Little Finger grants him a "lordship" , as Keeper, he already had the title of Lord. 

This is one of those questions where no one actually has a concrete answer, all of the examples given are vague(Nestor Royce) or are the result of war and treason(Brightwater Keep/Harrenhal).

 

The only thing we can safely say based on rebellions is that the crown and great lords can take away lands without asking for consent from the other(Harrenhal, Castamere, Tarbeck).

 

We dont actually have an example of being told who can grant lordship and who cant. If a knight can make a knight, it seems logical that a lord can make a lord.

 

Stannis and Davos seems to be the best example of this, but then again, that is vague as well. 

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On 7/7/2018 at 5:58 AM, Lord Varys said:

Why did Mace Tyrell need King Joffrey to grant Brightwater to Garlan if he could have done that himself? Why do only kings promise lordships as rewards? Why do we only see kings raising men to lordships? Why do we see only kings attaint lords?

Probably because that land isn't his to grant? Now land in his demesne, I don't really see why he couldn't.

The gift/new gift obviously is NW land, hence FNR's comment on Ned needing consent. I fail how to see a lord of Harrenhal couldn't install a new lord at the abandoned holdfast near God's Eye Town (assuming it's theirs to give). Land owed directly to the crown or having reverted to it would obviously be under the wary eye of the throne.

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2 minutes ago, Universal Sword Donor said:

Probably because that land isn't his to grant? Now land in his demesne, I don't really see why he couldn't.

The entire Reach *belongs* to House Tyrell in the sense that they are the lords paramount and liege lords of the Mander. Aegon the Conqueror granted them all the lands and incomes, etc. previously owned by House Gardener.

In that sense, surely all the Lords of the Reach live in 'the demesne' of House Tyrell, no? where is the difference in the relationship between House Rowan, say, and some petty lord directly sworn to House Tyrell living in the neighborhood of Highgarden?

I mean, both the Rowans and such a petty house owes House Tyrell fealty, right?

Yet, Mace Tyrell can neither atteint Lord Alester Florent himself, nor grant his lands to his son, Garlan, He needs the Iron Throne for that. Despite the fact that Alester Florent betrayed his liege lord, Mace Tyrell.

2 minutes ago, Universal Sword Donor said:

The gift/new gift obviously is NW land, hence FNR's comment on Ned needing consent. I fail how to see a lord of Harrenhal couldn't install a new lord at the abandoned holdfast near God's Eye Town (assuming it's theirs to give). Land owed directly to the crown or having reverted to it would obviously be under the wary eye of the throne.

The fact is that no lord ever offers to make somebody else a lord, despite the fact that many a lord might have reason or motivation to do so. I mean, Littlefinger could make all his goons lords both in the Vale and the Riverlands if he as lord could make lords. Roose could grant the Freys and other loyal men lordships in the North without going through King Tommen. And so on.

This never happens. The only authorities who offer and are seen men who presume to be kings - Joffrey, Cersei (acting as Queen Regent in the name of her children), Stannis.

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