u.s. politics: faygo to the polls

[IamMe90]

Just now, dmc515 said:

Yeah, not sure what the fuck this means.  Definitely not a clear enough indicator.  Maybe make shit more explicit after joking around about bombing an old woman in the face.

^ Okay, I just did. Hopefully that clarifies things for you. I'm not sure that pointing out the implications of a post by highlighting the absurdity of them constitutes as "joking around" but whatever man

[DMC]

11 minutes ago, IamMe90 said:

The only possible non-glib reason I can think of to ask "was she a Trump supporter?" was to either imply that because the woman was at a Trump rally, she is necessarily a neo-nazi, and therefore deserved to be bombed in the face, or, that she deserved to be bombed in the face because she was at a Trump rally. I think that both of these propositions are pretty fucking garbage.

Gotcha.  That was very hard to tell beforehand.

[DMC]

5 minutes ago, IamMe90 said:

^ Okay, I just did. Hopefully that clarifies things for you. I'm not sure that pointing out the implications of a post by highlighting the absurdity of them constitutes as "joking around" but whatever man

You serious?  If someone composed a post as "absurd" on the other side that was joking around, you'd be cool with it?  I highly doubt it.  Like, the height of highly doubt it.

[IamMe90]

I thought the equal signs would tie it together. Doesn't always work out the way you intend, I guess 

edit: I dunno- If they did it in the way I just did, I would understand the point because it would jibe with my sense of facetiousness. If they did it another way, maybe I wouldn't.

[DMC]

2 minutes ago, IamMe90 said:

I thought the equal signs would tie it together. Doesn't always work out the way you intend, I guess 

I'm drunk.  If I missed something obvious, my bad.

[Inigima]

Loving this thread title

[Bonnot OG]

17 minutes ago, Let's Get Kraken said:

So I just lost my second friend since Trump's inauguration in January over political shit. I also had somebody try to dox me for something I said on twitter... so that was fun.

I don't even know how to deal with this shit anymore. I insult conservatives and Trump supporters to get some kind of catharsis from my distress at the hate and fear-mongering of the alt right, but I'm starting to think that doing so is just adding to the general vitriol. The thing is I'm at a loss on how to approach this shit anymore. Nobody's minds are changing. The more combative things get, the more entrenched people become in their original ideologies, and what alternative is there? Not fight when you see the KKK (American ISIS) trying to make a comeback? Everywhere I look I feel like I see morons saying and doing moronic shit, and I don't know how to not call it out. Then I think maybe I'm just cloaking myself in my leftist bubble to take comfort in my own perception of having the greater intelligence/integrity/whatever than the people that I feel are ruining the country, the planet, etc.

This should have been a fantastic year for me. I moved into a new place, lost almost a hundred lbs, started getting some health shit taken care of, been writing almost every day. But all I feel lately is sad and angry, and more and more scared as the days go by. I'm so tired of feeling nothing but hate and contempt for this country, for my community, for Republicans... for my family.

I am honestly just so goddamn tired.

 sorry to hear all of that.

yea, it sucks.  And at times I feel the same way you do. And when I feel overwhelmed by that, I just shut down for a few hours and listen to some music, play a video game, watch a movie or binge some shows, dick around on YouTube, read, surf, skateboard, do something art (draw / paint / linocuts / mixed media collage / stencil work etc / learning to screen print etc). 

 

Btw, leftists "bubbles" are pretty damn diverse haha. 

[Dr. Pepper]

24 minutes ago, Let's Get Kraken said:

So I just lost my second friend since Trump's inauguration in January over political shit. I also had somebody try to dox me for something I said on twitter... so that was fun.

I don't even know how to deal with this shit anymore. I insult conservatives and Trump supporters to get some kind of catharsis from my distress at the hate and fear-mongering of the alt right, but I'm starting to think that doing so is just adding to the general vitriol. The thing is I'm at a loss on how to approach this shit anymore. Nobody's minds are changing. The more combative things get, the more entrenched people become in their original ideologies, and what alternative is there? Not fight when you see the KKK (American ISIS) trying to make a comeback? Everywhere I look I feel like I see morons saying and doing moronic shit, and I don't know how to not call it out. Then I think maybe I'm just cloaking myself in my leftist bubble to take comfort in my own perception of having the greater intelligence/integrity/whatever than the people that I feel are ruining the country, the planet, etc.

This should have been a fantastic year for me. I moved into a new place, lost almost a hundred lbs, started getting some health shit taken care of, been writing almost every day. But all I feel lately is sad and angry, and more and more scared as the days go by. I'm so tired of feeling nothing but hate and contempt for this country, for my community, for Republicans... for my family.

I am honestly just so goddamn tired.

I hear ya.  It's exhausting have to meet some of this moronic shit head on.  It's not much better on the other side of the fence.  In several aspects of my life, including professional and one part of personal, I'm required to make nice  with people from certain groups.   I have to smile at the sons of confederate veterans who stand along roads in this area manically waving the stars and bars, be polite to known kkk members, patiently listen to the Trump supporter who has become emboldened to be overtly racist where a year ago he kept it contained and private.  Even in small aspects of my life, like getting my hair done by someone who suddenly starts talking about her love of Trump who is 'putting those black lives matter folks in their rightful place' and keeping quiet not due to work but because I have no idea whether or not I'd be safe to simply refute the idea that black people need to be 'put in their place'.  It's exhausting.  Then I feel sick to my stomach because often kids, including those that live with me, see me not standing up for what's right.  I teach them about how bad the confederate flag is and then I smile at it's flag holder.  Makes me want to vomit sometimes.  

Lots of protests and counter protests this weekend.  Stay safe decent folks.  

[Channel4s-JonSnow]

1 hour ago, Let's Get Kraken said:

So I just lost my second friend since Trump's inauguration in January over political shit. I also had somebody try to dox me for something I said on twitter... so that was fun.

I don't even know how to deal with this shit anymore. I insult conservatives and Trump supporters to get some kind of catharsis from my distress at the hate and fear-mongering of the alt right, but I'm starting to think that doing so is just adding to the general vitriol. The thing is I'm at a loss on how to approach this shit anymore. Nobody's minds are changing. The more combative things get, the more entrenched people become in their original ideologies, and what alternative is there? Not fight when you see the KKK (American ISIS) trying to make a comeback? Everywhere I look I feel like I see morons saying and doing moronic shit, and I don't know how to not call it out. Then I think maybe I'm just cloaking myself in my leftist bubble to take comfort in my own perception of having the greater intelligence/integrity/whatever than the people that I feel are ruining the country, the planet, etc.

This should have been a fantastic year for me. I moved into a new place, lost almost a hundred lbs, started getting some health shit taken care of, been writing almost every day. But all I feel lately is sad and angry, and more and more scared as the days go by. I'm so tired of feeling nothing but hate and contempt for this country, for my community, for Republicans... for my family.

I am honestly just so goddamn tired.

I think politics should left completely out of friendships. I get irritated anytime someone posts anything political on facebook or twitter , not because I particularly disagree with them but because everyone forgets that the more vitriolic and passionate you are on a topic the more it will entrench people against you if they aren't 100% in agreement with you. You can't win in that situation. 

People on here might assume in some sort of right wing conservative , but I'm really not, I have almost no hard set political views. What I do have a problem with is vitriol and over reaction and hyperbole. That happens on both sides. The truth is nobody knows the truth on almost any subject, so the more passionate and miopic someone is on a topic the more silly they look and the more it makes people get defensive.

[Larry of the Lawn]

12 minutes ago, Channel4s-JonSnow said:

I think politics should left completely out of friendships. I get irritated anytime someone posts anything political on facebook or twitter , not because I particularly disagree with them but because everyone forgets that the more vitriolic and passionate you are on a topic the more it will entrench people against you if they aren't 100% in agreement with you. You can't win in that situation. 

People on here might assume in some sort of right wing conservative , but I'm really not, I have almost no hard set political views. What I do have a problem with is vitriol and over reaction and hyperbole. That happens on both sides. The truth is nobody knows the truth on almost any subject, so the more passionate and miopic someone is on a topic the more silly they look and the more it makes people get defensive.

This is a sad way to go through life.  There are people out there who make it clear from the things they say that they think my brother and sisters are less than them because they are non-white.  Who think that women are inferior to me or even worse actively hate women.  And even more people, who out of apathy, disinterest, laziness or ignorance support candidates and policies that do these things. The last group I can try to talk to, but the first two don't get to be friends.

[Channel4s-JonSnow]

7 minutes ago, larrytheimp said:

This is a sad way to go through life.  There are people out there who make it clear from the things they say that they think my brother and sisters are less than them because they are non-white.  Who think that women are inferior to me or even worse actively hate women.  And even more people, who out of apathy, disinterest, laziness or ignorance support candidates and policies that do these things. The last group I can try to talk to, but the first two don't get to be friends.

Not sure which bit you are saying is sad, for me, not taking hard political opinions is the best way to live, you should always give yourself room to change your mind. 

People say deeply stupid and ignorant things on all sides, the truth is always far more nuanced than most of the things we read. If someone is continuously ignorant and entrenched then there is little point debating them, and if they are people you personally know then all the more reason to not get into a debate.

[OldGimletEye]

On 8/19/2017 at 9:09 AM, Channel4s-JonSnow said:

People on here might assume in some sort of right wing conservative , but I'm really not, I have almost no hard set political views. What I do have a problem with is vitriol and over reaction and hyperbole. That happens on both sides. The truth is nobody knows the truth on almost any subject, so the more passionate and miopic someone is on a topic the more silly they look and the more it makes people get defensive.

Actually though, I’d say American conservatives have simply lost their minds. A lot of conservatives I know seem to think they can just say any crazy old thing no matter how untrue or crazy it is. They think facts and data are optional or to be ignored. They dismiss objective facts by just saying “liberal media”. And they believe in a bunch of historical nonsense like Lost Cause theory or believe in fairy tales about Ronald Reagen (remember when he cut taxes and it was mornin’ in America!”).

Something about American conservatism and the Republican Party, at this moment in time, has completely gone off the rails.

And it’s not enough to say, “but, but liberals did that!!” Maybe liberals are not perfect, but to say “both sides are the same” is nonsense.

I pretty much won’t be the one to bring up politics first, but there have been times where the nonsense and stupidity have been so off the chart, it’s caused me to write things on FB like, “Would you stop being an ignorant fuckin’ redneck because you’re killin’ me.”

On big policy issues like racial issues, healthcare, or financial regulation American conservatives really don't have anything useful to say.

[Channel4s-JonSnow]

14 minutes ago, OldGimletEye said:

Actually though, I’d say American conservatives have simply lost their minds. A lot of conservatives I know seem to think they can just say any crazy old thing no matter how untrue or crazy it is. They think facts and data are optional or to be ignored. They dismiss objective facts by just saying “liberal media”. And they believe in a bunch of historical nonsense like Lost Cause theory or believe in fairy tales about Ronald Reagen (remember when he cut taxes and it was mornin’ in America!”).

Something about American conservatism and the Republican Party, at this moment in time, has completely gone off the rails.

And it’s not enough to say, “but, but liberals did that!!” Maybe liberals are not perfect, but to say “both sides are the same” is nonsense.

I pretty much won’t be the one to bring up politics first, but there have been times where the nonsense and stupidity have been so off the chart, it’s caused me to write things on FB like, “Would you stop being an ignorant fuckin’ redneck because you’re killin’ me.”

On big policy issues like racial issues, healthcare, or financial regulation American conservatives really don't have anything useful to say.

I think there is always something useful on both sides, those opinions might not gel with you personally but I think there are valid ideas there as well. But yes both sides have vitriolic ignorant people as well; conservatives might well have more of them. 

Like anything I think you need to look in the right places, there are good left wing thinkers alongside terrible SJW types, there are good right wing thinkers alongside awful alt right bigots

[OldGimletEye]

On 8/19/2017 at 10:12 AM, Channel4s-JonSnow said:

snip

At this moment in time, it's just not the case that both sides have an equal amount of good thinkers and bad ones.

Look, there are times, when I disagree with lefties on some issues. But, really and truly, conservatism in the United States has gone done the route of crazy ,causing even a few conservative people to worry.

For whatever reason, conservatives in the US seem to think they are free to just spew any ignorant and dishonest nonsense that they please.

[Rippounet]

42 minutes ago, Channel4s-JonSnow said:

Like anything I think you need to look in the right places, there are good left wing thinkers alongside terrible SJW types, there are good right wing thinkers alongside awful alt right bigots

I think the question is whether one can be friends with an alt-right bigot, or someone embracing the ideas coming from the alt-right.
(I guess it would be an extreme SJW or an antifa for conservatives, though, I don't think this is equivalent, as I'll explain)

It's not that easy to answer, as I've recently been reminded by Mrs Life.
About a week ago I met a childhood friend of my GF's on the beach. Nice guy, very smart and educated, charming. We had quite a few drinks and -dare I say- some good times. At some point he said some odd things about getting into nasty fights as a student, and had a weird opinion on the bombing of Dresde (thinking it had shortened WWII like Hiroshima & Nagasaki), and I guessed he was an odd cookie, but there weren't any genuine red flags.
Then, just before we left, another childhood friend of my GF's expressed her surprise at us hanging out with that guy and asked whether we knew what he did for a living. We didn't.
Turns out he is a parliamentary assistant for the National Front, and the brother-in-law of the founder of the GUD, an ultra-violent far-right students' association that was known for assaulting members of minorities a few decades back -among other things. He also is involved in the current accusations of embezzlement levelled at the National Front by the European Union (though I doubt he'll go to jail over that).
That same day I watched the vice video about Charlotesville and realized that some of the people surrounding him had the same haircuts, tatoos, and general behavior as the American neo-nazis. Which of course, makes sense, since the GUD was a neo-fascist organization.

The thing about ideas, is that they may very well be distinct from one's persnality. One can be charming, kind, and generous, and still think that all Jews (or Blacks, or Muslims, or whatever) are subhumans that should be deported or exterminated.
The question then becomes whether you can ignore the violence of someone's ideas. Not his current actions, or his past, but merely his ideas,

I can't, and I don't think anyone should.
Ideas don't exist in a void. They aren't mere abstractions. Ideas have consequences. They influence people, actions, and elections. You can't easily dismiss the fact that someone deeply believes that "Hitler was right" for instance.
Breitbart writers call this "creating the crime of wrongthink." They thing "leftists" are intolerant because they don't respect other people's ideas, that the 1st amendment and the US Constitution means everyone is entitled to their opinions, however vile.
Well, I don't think that's true. I think there's an unwritten compact for anyone living in a human society to actually respect other human beings, regardless of their origins, ethnicity, religion, sex... etc. Respect must be given before respect is owed. If you refuse to abide by that compact, then you lose the right to expect the respect of others.
Or their friendship.

I understand that one wouldn't want to pass moral judgment on others, or break friendships over political ideas. But some ideas are too abhorrent to be tolerated. We all know what some ideas lead to, and no decent human being should pretend not to know.
"Social justice warriors" may seem extreme at times, but ultimately they are politically harmless ; even if they had power their ideas wouldn't hurt people. As for antifas, they generally hold a very diverse set of ideas, only some of whom may be dangerous.
I think that's why this bullshit false equivalency has to stop. If you think SJWs are comparable to neo-nazis, then you're already very much on the right, whatever you may say or think. It means you're pretending not to know or understand the violence of ideas.
Which means when shit hits the fan, you are part of the problem. You are one of those who will stay at home if there is ever a coup, one of those who will watch by as others are deported and murdered.
Not because you are morally weak, mind you, but because you won't see it coming.

[LongRider]

Bannon unchained.

Quote

In firing Steve Bannon, President Trump has lost his chief ideologue, the man who channeled his base and advocated for the populist-nationalist policies that helped propel Trump to victory.

But he has gained an unpredictable and potentially troublesome outside ally who has long experience running a media organization, and an even longer list of enemies with whom he has scores to settle both outside the administration and inside. “Steve is now unchained,” said a source close to Bannon. “Fully unchained.”

“He’s going nuclear,” said another friend. “You have no idea. This is gonna be really fucking bad.”..........................................................

Already, Breitbart is on a war footing. “It may turn out to be the beginning of the end for the Trump administration, the moment Donald Trump became Arnold Schwarzenegger,” editor Joel Pollak wrote on Friday, referring to the actor-turned-California governor, who won office as a populist outsider and exited with a 23 percent approval rating.

Bannon’s next steps are being worked out with Robert and Rebekah Mercer, the billionaire Republican donors who have been some of Trump’s most important supporters and Bannon’s consistent patrons. Two of Bannon’s friends told me Bannon met with Bob Mercer this week in New York while Trump was in town.

Will be interesting to see how Bannon out of the WH pans out.  

[Manhole Eunuchsbane]

7 hours ago, WinterFox said:

To be fair, I have to admit that I have no idea what a barrel bomb is. Though from the described injuries it sounds like a large firecracker. If I were to throw something into a crowd of Trupists(yes, = nazi) I'd try to make sure it could help them see the error of their ways. Maybe a brick.

 I guess the more common term is an M-80. We always used to call them barrel bombs when we were kids.

[Channel4s-JonSnow]

I certainly couldn't be friends with a nazi or someone with dangerous beliefs. But then in general I think having those beliefs stems from some form of personality defect and it's unlikely I'd be friends with them either. The same goes for extreme anti fa sjw types who often are so extreme due to their own personal problems. Neither one takes a balanced view of the world.

i do agree however that nazis would pose a more immediate and dangerous  threat were their numbers significant ( I really don't believe they are). But I don't think either side is especially helpful because they cannot empathise with others positions 

[Dr. Pepper]

23 minutes ago, Channel4s-JonSnow said:

I certainly couldn't be friends with a nazi or someone with dangerous beliefs. But then in general I think having those beliefs stems from some form of personality defect and it's unlikely I'd be friends with them either. The same goes for extreme anti fa sjw types who often are so extreme due to their own personal problems. Neither one takes a balanced view of the world.

i do agree however that nazis would pose a more immediate and dangerous  threat were their numbers significant ( I really don't believe they are). But I don't think either side is especially helpful because they cannot empathise with others positions 

I thought you said you prefer to keep politics out of friendships.

Or maybe you just meant you only want friends who align with your own personal belief systems.  Sort of like how everyone else works.  

[Morpheus]

Do some of you not realize that SJW is itself a far right term? It is not synonymous with antifa or any such thing, it is generally used to mock anyone who believes in equal rights, the warrior part is meant to be mocking "snowflakes".