u.s. politics: faygo to the polls

[DanteGabriel]

2 minutes ago, GAROVORKIN said:

 

You should study Zen , it's very relaxing. 

It's okay to admit you can't answer the question. I won't (can't) think any less of you.

[LongRider]

GAR is either a troll or a bot.  Stop wasting your time with it. 

[Martell Spy]

Why the ACLU is adjusting its approach to “free speech” after Charlottesville
The ACLU positioned itself to lead the resistance. Now its deepest traditions could be at stake.

https://www.vox.com/2017/8/20/16167870/aclu-hate-speech-nazis-charlottesville

[GAROVORKIN]

28 minutes ago, Nasty LongRider said:

GAR is either a troll or a bot.  Stop wasting your time with it. 

So you label anyone who doesn't share you point of view as a Troll or bot. How convenient of you. 

33 minutes ago, DanteGabriel said:

It's okay to admit you can't answer the question. I won't (can't) think any less of you.

 You prior  comments  gave me the impression that you do think less  of me . When someone comes  after me with insults and profanity , I don't respond in kind because there is no gain and no point and I will not give that person or persons   the satisfaction and if you were in my shoes neither would you  .  You think of yourselves  as the enlightened good guys  ,  news flash , your not  if  you treat anyone who doesn't tow your particular line or agree with you with contempt and belittling  insults .

 

 

 

 

[Manhole Eunuchsbane]

26 minutes ago, Martell Spy said:

Why the ACLU is adjusting its approach to “free speech” after Charlottesville
The ACLU positioned itself to lead the resistance. Now its deepest traditions could be at stake.

https://www.vox.com/2017/8/20/16167870/aclu-hate-speech-nazis-charlottesville

The backlash has already spurred other ACLU chapters to declare that they don’t believe free-speech protections apply to events like the one in Charlottesville, and led the ACLU’s national director, Anthony Romero, to declare the group will no longer defend the right to protest when the protesters want to carry guns.

 

One hundred percent behind this. How you can frame your protest as being peaceable and show up armed is beyond me.

[DanteGabriel]

19 minutes ago, GAROVORKIN said:

 You prior  comments  gave me the impression that you do think less  of me . When someone comes  after me with insults and profanity , I don't respond in kind because there is no gain and no point and I will not give that person or persons   the satisfaction and if you were in my shoes neither would you  .  You think of yourselves  as the enlightened good guys  ,  news flash  your not , because you treat anyone who doesn't tow your particular line or agree with yo with contempt and belittling  insults  .  What's worse is you don't see things that way.  

 

I used some pretty heated arguments with Manhole, but I didn't throw personal insults at him. You deserved that first comment about the the can of Shut the Fuck Up because you posted that hackneyed tripe as if you were the first simpering moron to ever spout nonviolent platitudes. We just had a long fucking debate about nonviolence, maybe engage with what went before instead of acting like your words were fresh and new?

You've been getting yourself proved wrong and embarrassed by smarter, more thoughtful people all day, and it hasn't caused you to stop and think that maybe your inane little cliches aren't as profound or universally accepted as you think you are.

So if you want me to treat you like a fully functional adult with a usefully wrinkled frontal lobe, can you just tell me, if there's no moral difference between Nazis and people who advocate violence against Nazis, what the fuck was the moral distinction between Nazis and the millions of soldiers who fought against them?

Or are you going to just pretend that you're sulking and whining about my mean words and that's why you can't actually defend your shallow and asinine ideas?

[lokisnow]

7 hours ago, Khaleesi did nothing wrong said:

Something has to be done about the US healthcare system though. It is actually really fascinating how you can spend such incredible amounts on it, about twice as much per person as in other modern countries, and still not really end up any better off. It appears like you flush a good 6 - 7 % of the country's GDP down the drain every year, which is an insane amount of money. To put that into perspective, the entire US military budget constitutes 3,3% of GDP, Bernie Sanders tuition-free college plan was about 0,5% (if I remember correctly), and NASA's budget is about 0,1% of GDP... 

 

Um no it's not being flushed down the drains. It is being funneled into the pockets of the medical care providers, making them very rich and well paid. That money doesn't just vanish down the drain, it goes to a huge cohort of people who expect that money flow to never change and are strong advocates of keeping that money flow on.

its something that liberals ever talk about, if we succeeded in matching the amount other countries spend with what we spent per person on medical care those providing the care who receive all that money would no longer be receiving that money.

we need to own that that our goal is that doctors and nurses will ultimately be paid half of what we currently pay them. The first step would be having the government start seriously forgiving med school debt. Then institute wage caps but grandfather in the current wages and then just let the best paid literally die out of the system over three or four decades.

[DMC]

7 hours ago, Kalbear said:

So the argument that making freedom of speech more strict will result in the US losing its democracy is, IMO, complete bullshit.

That was not my argument - my argument was that based on the standard you were using, the US would be described as "losing its democracy" more so if it imposed restrictions on free speech.  Our score is a 90, which, while not up to par with other nations is not too far off.  I don't necessarily have a problem with more free speech restrictions, but I also think free speech as an issue in general is very low on the list of priorities for improving this country as a democracy - and, obviously, Freedom House agrees.

[GAROVORKIN]

31 minutes ago, DanteGabriel said:

I used some pretty heated arguments with Manhole, but I didn't throw personal insults at him. You deserved that first comment about the the can of Shut the Fuck Up because you posted that hackneyed tripe as if you were the first simpering moron to ever spout nonviolent platitudes. We just had a long fucking debate about nonviolence, maybe engage with what went before instead of acting like your words were fresh and new?

You've been getting yourself proved wrong and embarrassed by smarter, more thoughtful people all day, and it hasn't caused you to stop and think that maybe your inane little cliches aren't as profound or universally accepted as you think you are.

So if you want me to treat you like a fully functional adult with a usefully wrinkled frontal lobe, can you just tell me, if there's no moral difference between Nazis and people who advocate violence against Nazis, what the fuck was the moral distinction between Nazis and the millions of soldiers who fought against them?

Or are you going to just pretend that you're sulking and whining about my mean words and that's why you can't actually defend your shallow and asinine ideas?

Still haven't  figured out the civil  part of conversion have  you ? Keep trying eventually you get it. Im not going answer any question from  you until  you decide to learn it. 

At this point I seriously  doubt anything I say all change your opinion of me. 

 

 

 

 

 

[GAROVORKIN]

52 minutes ago, Martell Spy said:

Why the ACLU is adjusting its approach to “free speech” after Charlottesville
The ACLU positioned itself to lead the resistance. Now its deepest traditions could be at stake.

https://www.vox.com/2017/8/20/16167870/aclu-hate-speech-nazis-charlottesville

 

I can't disagree with this . Not at all.

[TrueMetis]

3 minutes ago, GAROVORKIN said:

Still haven't  figured out the civil  part of conversion have  you ? Keep trying eventually you get it. Im not going answer any question from  you until  you decide to learn it.

If conversation need be civil before you'll engage then you're going to be real useless against the Nazis. Fucking hell at least the non-violent may speak up.

[GAROVORKIN]

14 hours ago, TrueMetis said:

If conversation need be civil before you'll engage then you're going to be real useless against the Nazis. Fucking hell at least the non-violent may speak up.

I On second thought , yah I said a few foolish  things , but you what? Live and  learn.

[DanteGabriel]

24 minutes ago, GAROVORKIN said:

Still haven't  figured out the civil  part of conversion have  you ? Keep trying eventually you get it. Im not going answer any question from  you until  you decide to learn it. 

Poor me. I guess I'll have to live my life without your guiding wisdom.

It's pretty obvious you can't answer the fucking question. Other people responded to your idiotic twaddle about Nazis being doomed to be a fringe group (that happens to have the support of the President and a bunch of powerful media outlets and have infiltrated law enforcement), you didn't engage with them either. Because you can't. And so you have to take a stand on the one fucking thing you have left -- your precious bruised feefees.

Here's some real talk, though, snowflake: hours before you deigned to bless us with your "Nazis will never amount to anything" pronouncement, we already had a bunch of discussion about how the Nazi threat was rising. Multiple posters, before and after your comment, pointed out that they have the endorsement of the President. Seems pretty disrespectful of you to ignore all the discussion that went on and just boldly twitsplain the threat away. If you had two neurons to rub together, or noticed anything that happened outside of your own bubble of preciousness, you might know that comfortable people ignoring the real fears and experiences of marginalized people is kind of a Thing.

Nazis already fucking killed someone, and you're still out here bleating about how they'll never be a problem. But the only thing you engage with was me being mean and using that as an excuse to clam up and refuse to defend your own statements. Fine, I'm mean and my mean words make you break out in flop sweat. Ignore me and engage with people like Inigima or Dr. Pepper, who did respond civilly. But no, you just chose to troll and bait me with lame comments about Zen. So what makes you better than me?

By the way, I know what Orwell would think about you. It's nothing civil.

[GAROVORKIN]

11 minutes ago, DanteGabriel said:

Poor me. I guess I'll have to live my life without your guiding wisdom.

It's pretty obvious you can't answer the fucking question. Other people responded to your idiotic twaddle about Nazis being doomed to be a fringe group (that happens to have the support of the President and a bunch of powerful media outlets and have infiltrated law enforcement), you didn't engage with them either. Because you can't. And so you have to take a stand on the one fucking thing you have left -- your precious bruised feefees.

Here's some real talk, though, snowflake: hours before you deigned to bless us with your "Nazis will never amount to anything" pronouncement, we already had a bunch of discussion about how the Nazi threat was rising. Multiple posters, before and after your comment, pointed out that they have the endorsement of the President. Nazis already fucking killed someone, and you're still out here bleating about how they'll never be a problem. But the only thing you engage with was me being mean and using that as an excuse to clam up and refuse to defend your own statements. Fine, I'm mean and my mean words make you break out in flop sweat. Ignore me and engage with people like Inigima or Dr. Pepper, who did respond civilly. But no, you just chose to troll and bait me with lame comments about Zen. So what makes you better than me?

Well. I must say  this is decided improvement over your previous comment   ,  You've actually managed to eliminate some of the profanity , now if you just work on the the mean spiritlessness you will  be well on your way to Civil Conversation.    

 

Look Dante , I don't want keep doing this.  I have no animosity towards you 

[DanteGabriel]

Pretty please, with a cherry on top, honored intellectual Mr. @GAROVORKIN, please explain for li'l ol' ignorant me, if people advocating violence against Nazis are no better than Nazis, what is the moral distinction between Nazis and the millions of Allied soldiers who fought against them?

[GAROVORKIN]

16 minutes ago, DanteGabriel said:

Pretty please, with a cherry on top, honored intellectual Mr. Gavorkin, please explain for li'l ol' ignorant me, if people advocating violence against Nazis are no better than Nazis, what is the moral distinction between Nazis and the millions of Allied soldiers who fought against them?

Dante I don't  think your Ignorant , not in the least.   

as to the additions to you commentary .  That will do. 

 

During world war II the Nazis were  the bad guys and their   whole  political philosophy. was obscenity and perversion    and had to be crushed into into the ground .  Had we not destroyed them , they would have destroyed us and millions more beyond . We might not be here  having this argument had they won    So we had the right to destroy them because it was war and we were justified .  in WWII were definite good guys and bad guys. Unfortunately, after the war the US military   employed nazis to build an intelligence networked to counter the Russians at the start of the Cold War  and there was of course Operation Paper Clip.

 

[Bonnot OG]

1 hour ago, GAROVORKIN said:

By preaching violence against them  how are you any better then they are ? 

Easily, I am not calling for the mass extermination of people based upon their skin color, ethnicity, disabilities etc. I am saying fight those that are. That's how. 

You don't fight fascism with just words. Civility doesn't work against the uncivil. Read a history book.

[DanteGabriel]

So Nazis no longer need to be crushed into the ground? We are no longer justified in using violence to defeat an evil ideology? 

Never mind. I should have let you suck your thumb in peace, because that was more useless tripe.

[GAROVORKIN]

Just now, Sword of Doom said:

Easily, I am not calling for the mass extermination of people based upon their skin color, ethnicity, disabilities etc. That's how. 

You don't fight fascism with just words. Civility doesn't work against the uncivil. Read a fucking history book.

 

Hypothetical question then, if they  demonstrate peaceably and spout  their obscene political nonsense  without committing inciting any  violence whatsoever, does that still justify violence against them? 

 

[Bonnot OG]

6 minutes ago, GAROVORKIN said:

 

Hypothetical question then, if they  demonstrate peaceably and spout  their obscene political nonsense  without committing inciting any  violence whatsoever, does that still justify violence against them? 

 

Their speech is violence. Or do you ignore what the end game of their political ideology is? 

They aren't there to demonstrate peacefully. They are there to terrorize. And what are they demonstrating? Oh yea, nazism, an ideology that revolves around oppression and genocide. Yea, nah, fuck being civil or peaceful with them.