MinscS2 Posted August 25, 2017 Share Posted August 25, 2017 11 minutes ago, The Prince who was not pro said: No, the end will be bittersweet, that's a happy ending, Daewnerys is going to die. Daenerys dying is not bittersweet, it's a tragic ending. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Prince who was not pro Posted August 25, 2017 Share Posted August 25, 2017 Hace 3 minutos, MinscS2 dijo: Daenerys morir no es un agridulce, es un final trágico. Bittersweet, ella muere. Sin embargo, Jon vive. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Prince who was not pro Posted August 25, 2017 Share Posted August 25, 2017 In fact if we see that the scriptwriters practically told us in the last episode that Daenerys is going to get pregnant it makes sense that she dies and jon and his son survive, that is bittersweet, otherwise it is a happy ending. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CrypticWeirwood Posted August 25, 2017 Share Posted August 25, 2017 19 hours ago, falcotron said: Also, you're basically saying the Targ line can only continue through Jon rather than Dany because Dany's infertile, but then concluding that it'll be Jon with Dany. That doesn't make sense unless you assume that Jon's magic sperm is needed to overcome her magic infertility, which isn't totally impossible, but it's a pretty big assumption. Now there's an idea! Magic sperm of a man raised from the dead to quicken a deadened womb. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
falcotron Posted August 25, 2017 Share Posted August 25, 2017 3 hours ago, Kytheros said: I'm not sure what Viserys's version of events was either. Other than most likely biased in the direction of Targs can do no wrong, or some such. He was pretty young when they fled, and he wasn't even that old when they lost their last real tutor under Darry, and he had years to twist things around in his head after that. Of course everyone he contacted to beg for an army to help him retake his rightful throne would contradict many elements of his story, but they're lying scum just looking for an excuse not to help him. But yeah, in his mind, I'm sure neither his father nor his brother did anything wrong—except maybe not burning enough of the traitors before they started their completely unjustified rebellion out of pure lust for power. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
falcotron Posted August 25, 2017 Share Posted August 25, 2017 18 minutes ago, The Prince who was not pro said: In fact if we see that the scriptwriters practically told us in the last episode that Daenerys is going to get pregnant it makes sense that she dies and jon and his son survive, that is bittersweet, otherwise it is a happy ending. I think Jon dying in battle and Dany surviving with their son is a little more bittersweet as Dany dying in childbirth and Jon surviving with their son, because then at least you get the sweet part of Dany getting the throne she's been fighting for this whole time but having lost everything (even one or more of her dragons) to get it, vs. Jon having to take either a throne or a regency he never wanted and try to live up to Dany's ideals instead of his own. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CrypticWeirwood Posted August 25, 2017 Share Posted August 25, 2017 2 hours ago, lakin1013 said: As to the OPs original question, I thought the succession discussion was a foreshadowing of Dany's death. The point is clearly made that Dany has nobody to succeed her, and this makes her angry. It reminds me of the prophecy at the House of the Undying when Dany walks into the throne room and it is destroyed, with snow on the ground and the smell of blue roses fill the air. All signs point to Jon and not Dany. But there is nobody on the throne (kind of like the riderless horse). I predict Dany will never make it and will die in her quest. Dany's vision in the House of the Undying prophesied that she will unexpectedly find her husband and her son beyond the Wall in a warm place sheltered from the winds of winter howling without. We have no reason to believe that this won't happen. It's just that she will make Jon her husband there, and there also shall they make their son. Drogo and Rhaego are symbolic in that allegorical vision. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Commander Jon Snow Posted August 25, 2017 Share Posted August 25, 2017 4 hours ago, El Guapo said: The talk of the succession and Dany not being able to have children (twice in this episode) and Jorah telling Jon to pass Longclaw onto his children is pretty clear forshadowing to me that Dany is going to become pregnant which will solve that succession issue. I also think she will probably be alive in the end as well. Pretty much. D&D aren't very subtle writers. They made it very obvious Stannis would burn Shireen and Olly would betray Jon. They ahd Tormound and Davos joking about Jon not being King literally the episode before he gets crowned KitN. They had Daenerys talk about marriage alliances and telling Tyrion she's afraid no one will ever love her again the same episode Jon got named KitN. Based on how often they talked about succession and children this episode, it's definitely building up to Jon and Dany having a baby. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lancerman Posted August 25, 2017 Share Posted August 25, 2017 I think they are implying that Dany might set up a system where they have a clear line of succession or way to choose a next leader that doesn't fall strictly on parentage. Also it is a fair point. Dany brought the Unsullied and Dothraki to Westeros and United them with the Reach, Dorne and some of the Iron Born. If she dies one of the most significant forces in the world is completely directionless. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MinscS2 Posted August 25, 2017 Share Posted August 25, 2017 I think it's far likely that Jon dies during the War for the Dawn, and that Dany survives with their child, than the other way around. Jon's death will leave Dany heartbroken, so now when she finally has the throne she's wanted for so long she no longer cares about it. Instead she will focus on caring for their child, the prince/princess who was promised, and do her best to raise him/her into a kind and benevolent monarch who will lead the realm into a better future. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Raksha 2014 Posted August 25, 2017 Share Posted August 25, 2017 On 8/21/2017 at 1:00 AM, El Guapo said: Only death pays for life. She lost one child (dragon) this episode, she will get another (human ) one. "Only death can pay for life." Forget this post. I can't seem to delete it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Raksha 2014 Posted August 25, 2017 Share Posted August 25, 2017 4 hours ago, MinscS2 said: Daenerys dying is not bittersweet, it's a tragic ending. I've always thought that either Jon or Daenerys, or both, would die before the end. Their having a child before they perish would be bittersweet - hopefully they'll have a chance to publicly marry before Daenerys gives birth. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
falcotron Posted August 25, 2017 Share Posted August 25, 2017 39 minutes ago, lancerman said: I think they are implying that Dany might set up a system where they have a clear line of succession or way to choose a next leader that doesn't fall strictly on parentage. Well, that's what Tyrion is suggesting. I think he's solving the wrong problem. A monarchy where the people get some say in which potential heir takes the throne doesn't look much like a democracy—it looks like the Iron Islands. Democracy is not at all incompatible with hereditary monarchy, as you can see from Norway, the UK, and half the other functioning democracies in the world. Meanwhile, I can't think of any country where they elect a "president for life" to rule them and it goes well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Commander Jon Snow Posted August 25, 2017 Share Posted August 25, 2017 43 minutes ago, lancerman said: I think they are implying that Dany might set up a system where they have a clear line of succession or way to choose a next leader that doesn't fall strictly on parentage. Also it is a fair point. Dany brought the Unsullied and Dothraki to Westeros and United them with the Reach, Dorne and some of the Iron Born. If she dies one of the most significant forces in the world is completely directionless. They have gone out of the way to have her bring up 'the wheel' multiple times this season. That def suggests to me that there will be a new system at the very end of the series installed by Dany. In season 5, I could have discarded it as a line just made to try and sound cool but with it consistently coming up, I think there will be a major change in the way Westeros is run. I wonder if Dany is gonna do what Egg tried doing and install an enlightened absolute monarchy. Egg was never able to enforce his laws to help the common people because he lacked dragons to back him up. I feel like 'breaking the wheel' can't be something as simple as killing a couple houses. It has to mean a fundamental change in the feudal society built into Westeros Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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