Why did they bring up succession order?

[El Guapo]

16 minutes ago, falcotron said:

Now that I think about it, there's another option: the Animal House ending. Freeze-frame on each character, and put up a label to say where they end up:

• Tyrion: Ruled as Hand until he found a successor he could trust, then retired to Casterly Rock.
• Gendry: Legitimized as a Baratheon and given the Stormlands.
• Jaime: Founded the new Night Watch, which turned out to be pretty dull with no more White Walkers and few raids from the Free Folk.
• Davos: Moved to Naath. Died of butterfly fever.
• Edmure: Still rotting in a cell in the Twins, nobody even remembers why.
• Tormund: Finally got a night with Brienne. She wasn't impressed. Moved back to live in the Far North.
• Lyanna: Found running Bear Island boring without any wars to fight. Moved to Meereen to become a pit fighter.
• Pod: Gave up swordsmanship to practice a different kind of swordsmanship. Now known as The Male Black Swan.
• Arya: Returned to Essos. There were no survivors.
• Jon: Ruled for 100 years and was a wise king and good—suck it, GRRM, now you're Tolkien.

Sansa - tour guide for Universal Studios?

[Slugabed]

OK, so all this talk about whether or not Dany can have children, I'm left wondering about Jon the Wight. I don't know if this has been discussed elsewhere, but I think it's kind of relevant here. Can the undead even make babies?

[falcotron]

2 minutes ago, Slugabed said:

OK, so all this talk about whether or not Dany can have children, I'm left wondering about Jon the Wight. I don't know if this has been discussed elsewhere, but I think it's kind of relevant here. Can the undead even make babies?

According to GRRM, book!Jon is a "fire wight" like Beric, and Beric has no blood flowing through his veins, which implies pretty strongly that book!Jon can't make babies.

But that may not be true for show!Jon. Beric's whole bit tonight about how "You and I are never going to find happiness, but at least we can help other people stay alive long enough to find their own" (paraphrasing from memory, probably badly) is the strongest implication I can think of that show!Jon can't make babies, and it's not a very strong implication. Especially since, by Beric's own admission, he doesn't really understand anything about their situation, and he's just doing his best to guess.

So, Jon could end the story by knocking up Dany and then dying, solving all of the future succession problems by uniting the two claims and the present ones by not being around anymore. Or, maybe they'll get married and live happily ever after, which also solves the problems. And, as much as I hate to admit it, Tyrion's succession stuff could foreshadow that just as well as it could foreshadow some kind of intelligent political plan next season.

[daemonTheBlack]

The Blood of the Dragon is magic (ie some alien biological science that is not fully understood). It will fix any issues either of them might have with their reproductive systems.

[falcotron]

9 minutes ago, daemonTheBlack said:

The Blood of the Dragon is magic (ie some alien biological science that is not fully understood). It will fix any issues either of them might have with their reproductive systems.

Fire Wight + Blood of the Dragon. Fire and Blood. That means the explanation will only be half-done at 200,000 words, but there will be a summary version about The Sons of the Dragon. Works for me.

[Mikkel]

4 hours ago, falcotron said:

According to GRRM, book!Jon is a "fire wight" like Beric

Wait, did he actually say that? If so, source please? Remember, in the books Jon is still dead/dying as of the last published book (yes yes no-one believes he will stay dead, but still).

[Consigliere]

8 minutes ago, Mikkel said:

Wait, did he actually say that? If so, source please? Remember, in the books Jon is still dead/dying as of the last published book (yes yes no-one believes he will stay dead, but still).

He didn't say that exactly. Draw your own conclusions from the interview.

http://time.com/4791258/game-of-thrones-george-r-r-martin-interview/

[Mikkel]

25 minutes ago, Consigliere said:

He didn't say that exactly. Draw your own conclusions from the interview.

http://time.com/4791258/game-of-thrones-george-r-r-martin-interview/

Mm, he actually came very close to explicitly saying it with that "right", but then he's equally explicit in that the following paragraph is about Beric, and not Jon - though it's not an unfair assumption that the same applies to Jon*. George is a past master in deflecting and avoiding questions like that, I guess he has to be after decades of ravening fans trying to get this or that out of him.

*of course we still don't know for sure that book-Jon's revival will come about the same way it did on the show

[Consigliere]

Just now, Mikkel said:

Mm, he actually came very close to explicitly saying it with that "right", but then he's equally explicit in that the following paragraph is about Beric, and not Jon - though it's not an unfair assumption that the same applies to Jon*. George is a past master in deflecting and avoiding questions like that, I guess he has to be after decades of ravening fans trying to get this or that out of him.

*of course we still don't know for sure that book-Jon's revival will come about the same way it did on the show

I think the part about a wight animated by fire instead of ice as well as "now we’re getting back to the whole fire and ice thing" is interesting too. Then we have Coldhands, a sentient wight, in the books as well. I think Jon's resurrection in the books could very well involve both ice and fire, perhaps resulting in a Jon that is somewhere between a Beric/Cat and Coldhands.

[SerJeremiahLouistark]

13 hours ago, Ser Meryn Frey said:

It's never been brought up before, even though she has been a queen for 6 6/7 seasons. Did they bring it up because it will matter in the last, up coming, season? Will Jon Snow inherit her crown and realm?

In my opinion it's 1 of 2 things:

 

either dany will die and name Jon her successor or only the blood of the dragon will be able to impregnate her and I'm leaning towards the 2nd one because Jorah said something about Longclaw passing to Jon's children.  

[WeaselPie]

The succession order was brought up because of Sam Tarly, who is actually Aegon VI.  

5 hours ago, Slugabed said:

Can the undead even make babies?

Funny you mention this, I think it depends on the type of undead.  I'm now convinced that Cersei is carrying the child of Gregor Clegane.

[Sand11751]

Jorah also reminded Jon of his eventual need to father children to take up Longclaw. D&D clobbering us with the idea of the next generation of Targs.

[Deminelle]

58 minutes ago, SerJeremiahLouistark said:

In my opinion it's 1 of 2 things:

 

either dany will die and name Jon her successor or only the blood of the dragon will be able to impregnate her and I'm leaning towards the 2nd one because Jorah said something about Longclaw passing to Jon's children.  

Maybe Jon had to die to be able to impregnate Dany. There could be some kind of explanation to prophecy: according to prophecy Drogo will be back after the child is born, it's not literally Drogo himself, who is back, but Dany will find that love for Jon will be as strong as it was for Drogo.

[falcotron]

14 hours ago, Mikkel said:

of course we still don't know for sure that book-Jon's revival will come about the same way it did on the show

We still don't know for sure that book!Jon will be dead in the first place.

I mean, of course we all know he is going to die of his stabbings, and then come back in some way. But as of the end of ADwD, he's bleeding and probably mortally wounded but still alive, and I don't think any TWoW preview chapters give us an update.

[Snormund]

I'm beyond sick of this show trying to push an aunt fucking her own nephew as romantic. It's sickening. 

[teej6]

21 hours ago, falcotron said:

According to GRRM, book!Jon is a "fire wight" like Beric, and Beric has no blood flowing through his veins, which implies pretty strongly that book!Jon can't make babies.

I think you are interpreting GRRM's fire wight comment from the Time interview incorrectly. I doubt GRRM would have just given away what he plans to do with Jon's resurrection in the books just like that. In the interview he's specifically referring to events in the show, Here's the specific question from the interview:

Question: And Jon Snow, too, is drained by the experience of coming back from the dead on the show. 

GRRM: Right. And poor Beric Dondarrion, who was set up as the foreshadowing of all this, every time he’s a little less Beric. His memories are fading, he’s got all these scars, he’s becoming more and more physically hideous, because he’s not a living human being anymore. His heart isn’t beating, his blood isn’t flowing in his veins, he’s a wight, but a wight animated by fire instead of by ice, now we’re getting back to the whole fire and ice thing.

I think GRRM is responding to the interviewer's question about ShowJon and not BookJon. GRRM refers to Beric because in the show Jon is resurrected by Mel who is R'hllor's priestess just as Thoros, and Jon and Beric's resurrection method is the same in the show. That's not to say that GRRM is confirming that this is what he will do in the books in terms of Jon's resurrection. For all we know, Jon may not even be dead in the books instead be just badly wounded and in a coma. GRRM is making the analogy of Beric based on show information to me.  

 by @Consigliere

[falcotron]

2 minutes ago, teej6 said:

I think you are interpreting GRRM's fire wight comment from the Time interview incorrectly. 

Yes, I spoke imprecisely here.

If book!Jon ends up the same way as show!Jon, he won't be able to have sex.

But we don't know that book!Jon will end up the same way as show!Jon.

And we also don't know that show!Jon won't be able to have sex, because this is just based on GRRM's take on the show as a viewer, he's not in charge of it.

So, it's not necessarily relevant to either version of Jon.

I was just trying to explain the "fire wight" thing for the third time without rambling over three paragraphs again, and I did a bad job of it; thanks for catching it.

[teej6]

I think Tyrion's comment in the book is setting us up for another Great Council to elect a king/queen. The successor part Dany dismisses but Tyrion also talks about breaking the wheel and the NW system of choosing a leader or the Ironborn's Kingsmoot tradition. This indicates to me that it is a set up for calling a General Council in the next season. Did Cat mention setting up a General Council  in the show? Can't seem to remember. 

[teej6]

12 minutes ago, falcotron said:

Yes, I spoke imprecisely here.

If book!Jon ends up the same way as show!Jon, he won't be able to have sex.

But we don't know that book!Jon will end up the same way as show!Jon.

And we also don't know that show!Jon won't be able to have sex, because this is just based on GRRM's take on the show as a viewer, he's not in charge of it.

So, it's not necessarily relevant to either version of Jon.

I was just trying to explain the "fire wight" thing for the third time without rambling over three paragraphs again, and I did a bad job of it; thanks for catching it.

Understood. ShowJon is having sex 

[Centrist Simon Steele]

On 8/20/2017 at 9:59 PM, Calibeamer7 said:

Well from how I interpreted it was that Dany's wants to "break the wheel". Meaning the end of dynasties and having more of a democracy. Allowing all the kingdoms or the people to vote and choose which King/Queen to rule. Tyrion does mention how Pyke and the Nights choose their successors, hinting to run Westeros in a similar fashion.

 

Thoughts?

Yeah, like a vote or die thing. Vote for me or I will burn you alive.