[Spoilers] Rant and Rave Without Repercussion

[SweetPea]

What really pissed me off is that for the first time they managed to squeeze at least some emotion out of Emilia and it's for the wrong fucking reason! One of her dragons just died! She called them her children this episode! Why is she crying because of Jon???!! She barely knows him!  Holy shit.

[Haskelltier]

11 minutes ago, Jaime4Brienne said:

Also through snow...D and D must be from somewhere warm because just walking through snow is harder running through snow would exhaust you in no time, especially if you hadn't trained to 1. run long distances 2.run through snow 

To be true there wasn't really much snow, perhaps a thin layer, but nothing which should slow your movement dramatically.

The nice weather in the North is one thing which doesn't fit in the story. In session 6 we finally heard that winter is here, one of the hardest winter in history of Westeros, because the second long night is coming. When I imagine a really hard winter, I think of massive amounts of snow, icy winds, heavy snowfall and blizzards. What do you see in Winterfell and beyond the wall? If you are lucky, you see light snowfall, no wind, nobody with shovels and no carts or so with snow, which has to be brought out of the castle. And beyond the wall everything looks like session 3 when the Night Watch went ranging beyond the wall. I wouldn't call that a hard winter, but who am I.

[Jaime4Brienne]

18 minutes ago, Haskelltier said:

To be true there wasn't really much snow, perhaps a thin layer, but nothing which should slow your movement dramatically.

The nice weather in the North is one thing which doesn't fit in the story. In session 6 we finally heard that winter is here, one of the hardest winter in history of Westeros, because the second long night is coming. When I imagine a really hard winter, I think of massive amounts of snow, icy winds, heavy snowfall and blizzards. What do you see in Winterfell and beyond the wall? If you are lucky, you see light snowfall, no wind, nobody with shovels and no carts or so with snow, which has to be brought out of the castle. And beyond the wall everything looks like session 3 when the Night Watch went ranging beyond the wall. I wouldn't call that a hard winter, but who am I.

I guess I only noticed snow, not how deep it was so you're probably right about it not impeding him much.

[watcher of the night]

In fact the whole war against the NK could have been won in five minutes. Take the best archers, give them dragonglass arrows, fly over the NK and peper him with arrows, game over. By the time he tries to pull one his magic javelins he should be dead. GG.

D&D: Wait! We have a whole season left ...

[Deminelle]

16 minutes ago, watcher of the night said:

In fact the whole war against the NK could have been won in five minutes. Take the best archers, give them dragonglass arrows, fly over the NK and peper him with arrows, game over. By the time he tries to pull one his magic javelins he should be dead. GG.

D&D: Wait! We have a whole season left ...

Jon had to go beyond the wall to learn that taking NK down would/could kill his army. Daenerys wouldn't have flown beyond the wall unless Jon hadn't been in trouble there. They can't take all archers and leave Dragonstone poorly armed because Cersei would take it. 

Just saying.

[Rhodan]

47 minutes ago, watcher of the night said:

In fact the whole war against the NK could have been won in five minutes.

You mean like war against Cersei?

[Armand Gargalen]

26 minutes ago, Deminelle said:

Jon had to go beyond the wall to learn that taking NK down would/could kill his army. Daenerys wouldn't have flown beyond the wall unless Jon hadn't been in trouble there. They can't take all archers and leave Dragonstone poorly armed because Cersei would take it. 

Just saying.

You don´t need to take every archer at Dragonstone. Just five, the ones that fit on a dragons. Make some good harnesses for stability and it is done.

[darmody]

2 hours ago, Jaime4Brienne said:

Also through snow...D and D must be from somewhere warm because just walking through snow is harder running through snow would exhaust you in no time, especially if you hadn't trained to 1. run long distances 2.run through snow 

Yeah, I'm from Minnesota, and walking down my dang driveway after a snowfall wears me out. 

Why didn't the Dirty Baker's Dozen bring snowshoes?

[Roboginger]

21 hours ago, funeh said:

wtf lmao so true xdd

 

 

i wanna like this show but reading this thread makes me hate it more than I already do xD so counterproductive 

 

I Agree, i watch the show and think not bad there was a lot of good stuff. Then i come here and get all riled up about inconsistencies that i did not notice. 

[tinka10]

Ugh...I don't even know where to begin...

[Ser Quork]

Ah bless - the director doesn't get the criticism. Perhaps we should enlighten him ...

http://www.newsweek.com/game-thrones-season-7-pace-criticism-director-alan-taylor-653038

[Corvinus85]

2 hours ago, Ser Quork said:

Ah bless - the director doesn't get the criticism. Perhaps we should enlighten him ...

http://www.newsweek.com/game-thrones-season-7-pace-criticism-director-alan-taylor-653038

This show has been propelled to popularity by nerds, and now he doesn't understand why nerds do what nerds to. ffs

[norwaywolf123]

Who am i to judge? I enjoyed the episode but the teleporting and plotholes is dissapointing. The north of the wall stuff was intresting!

[Sir Dingleberry]

10 hours ago, darmody said:

Being Tywin's cupbearer and not having the future architect of her brother and mother's murder assassinated when she had multiple opportunities--for no other apparent reason than he was nice to her--doesn't count because...Hey, look behind you! [D&D jump out the window while your back is turned.]

I honestly believe they pull that in meetings so that this shitty writing just continues to be allowed every season.

[LokisRaider]

So just something that came into my mind.

People (myself included) seem to be confused as to why the NK threw the spear at the flying dragon instead of the larger Drogon that was right in front of him and had all the humans that could possibly defeat him right there. And I've read some of the responses of people trying to justify that.

But I guess what really bothers me is he does try to kill Drogon... after he takes off and starts flying. So what is the point of not trying to kill him when he is actually right in front of you?

[Mister Stoneheart]

So much plot armor this episode.  So much near-death.

The show lacks the nail-biting fear one gets when reading the books that any character could die.

We lost Thoros.  And some redshirts.  Boo hoo.  And one of the dragons.

They should have killed Tormund, too.  The payoff was disproportional.

[ramla]

16 hours ago, Greywater-Watch said:

Remember the scene when the Night King was about to enter the cave? He put his hand on the ground and basically froze everything around him. I assume he could have easily spot-re-frozen the lake had he only wanted to. But he was probably busy contemplating the stupid script forbidding him to e.g. javeline the seven remaining men on the Island one by one, but was forced to wait in the fucking cold until these Dragons arrived.

Wow, hadn't even thought of this! lol Fax!

[Lady Fevre Dream]

8 hours ago, Rubicante said:

I don't know.  When I look at that stern expression on the Night King's face, he strikes me as a man who has "loyalty" and "man of the people" written all over him.

LOL  Thank you, you have me LMAO!!  Team White Walker really is looking better and better. 

[Lady Fevre Dream]

6 hours ago, Yoren Luck said:

It's just a tv show really, so I am trying to continue the suspension of disbelief as much as possible to get through it, but this whole wight hunt ordeal is really too much.  All of the ranting and raving on this thread and others have already touched on a lot of the issues regarding the actual plot and how it unfolded, and I agree with all of what has been said.  I still just can't believe there wasn't anyone in the writing room stopping this madness from even being produced in the first place.  I'm not going to write a huge fan-fiction here, but I will offer one of a number of possible alternatives that would have been more believable and still achieved the necessary ends.  

Step 1: when Danaerys returns from roasting Lannisters and has that scene with Jon bonding with Drogon, have Jon ask her something like 'how far away was the battle?' and have her respond with some info on where the battle took place and an estimate of how long it took her to get back.  Then have that dialogue where Jon calls them remarkable beasts or whatever he said, and Dany calls them her children, and have Jon give his typical brooding dialogue about how he knows she doesn't believe truly him about the army of the dead, but if these dragons can fly as fast as you say they can, why not travel north of the wall with me so I can show you the real enemy... [cue dramatic scene where Tyrion tries to convince her not to go, but then in walks a freshly healed Jorah who tells Dany that he just came from the Citadel and was treated by this maester in training from the Nights Watch named Tarly, who told him some tales of his time north of the wall serving his father, and he swore the army and the Night King is real]

Step 2: Since Drogon was recently wounded by Bronn's unbelievable scorpion talents, Dany decides to just take Rhaegal and Viserion, with the both of them on Rhaegal.  Now, I know that this is a bit of a stretch because she has never ridden any of her other two dragons, but the point of this is obviously to gift a dragon to the Night King, so let's go with it for now.

Step 3: Dany and Jon fly to Eastwatch.  Here they meet with Tormund and some redshirt wildlings, and talk about the ongoing efforts to convince Dany and Cersei of the real enemy at hand.  Tormund jokingly suggests that while Jon and Dany are scouting north of the wall, they should just scoop up a wight and deliver it to Cersei.  After all, nothing short of that is going to convince the mad queen or any other Southerner of the real threat to Westeros.  Jon and Dany laugh with everyone else about how silly the idea sounds, but Jon allows himself a moment to quietly consider it.  He discretely grabs a burlap sack and some rope just in case.

Step 4: A quick scene of Bran breaking out of another flock of ravens warging session where he sees Jon and Dany flying north from Eastwatch. Then moments later Bran goes full warg on Benjen/Benjen's horse, directing them to where Jon and Dany are heading.  This could even be done offscreen or not at all.

Step 5: Jon and Dany fly north until they see the front of the army of the dead.  Dany is noticeably distraught over the scene, but ignores Jon's request to stay back and instead goes in to spray a bunch of them with fire.  This works for a while, with Rhaegal and Viserion taking out big numbers of the dead army, and Jon notices that there are a few undead that are far enough away that she could land the dragon and he could scoop one up for Cersei.  So they do just that.

Step 6: Jon hacks his way to getting just one undead isolated, and then tags him and bags him.  Just as he is about to throw the wriggling corpse onto Rhaegal, the Night King and his bodyguard wights appear atop their protected perch area and start throwing ice javelins at the Dany and Jon.  Viserion takes one for the team and crash lands in such a way that it clears out a bunch more deadites and gives Dany a moment to take off.  Deadites swarm and Jon can't get back onto Rhaegal.  More ice javelins are about to be launched to he yells to Dany to leave and fights his way through a few of them at a time while running back to Eastwatch.

Step 7: Everyone's favorite uncle rides in in the knick of time to save Jon.  They have a moment's exchange similar to how they did it in the episode, when Jon gets on his horse while Benjen buys him time to leave.  Deadite is dragged behind the horse as he gallops back to Eastwatch.

Step 8: Dany arrives back at Eastwatch, and luckily is too distraught to leave right away for Dragonstone...Tormund tells her that Jon Snow is a survivor, and gives her the story of the Night's Watch mutiny on him and how he was brought back.  Tormund convinces her to stay a bit longer as they both stand atop the wall hoping for his return, although even Tormund doubts it this time.

Step 9: Lo and Behold, Jon does return in true hero fashion, cementing his hero status in Dany's eyes.  The two travel back to Dragonstone, where they take the wight in to show the rest of the council.  The decision is made at this point to send Davos and Tyrion to Kings Landing to arrange a meeting to negotiate an armistice and discuss the real threat to the continent.

In the end, Dany gets her proof and learns of Jon's stabbing, Jon gets his wight for Cersei, the Night King gets a dragon, Benjen gets tied up as a loose end, and Thoros is not needlessly killed yet.

Bonus stuff - this scenario doesn't involve an impossible Gendry marathon, and he can be picked up in Kings Landing in a more thrilling manner next week in the season finale.  This scenario also doesn't involve the BwB, since in my mind they are just arriving at Winterfell, where Arya, Brienne, and Sansa have a few scenes with the Sandor Clegane to close out the season.  It also doesn't require a CGI bear so maybe a few seconds of Ghost could be worked in to an episode this season. And of course...no 'wight hunt' and no subsequent monty python-esque debates over how far/fast a raven can travel in a day.

Retcon rant over.  Thanks for reading if you did

 

 

I did read, it was better, of course, than what we did see and, MOST IMPORTANT:  Sensible.  As sensible as one can be with the dreck they've given us. 

[The Scabbard Of the Morning]

6 minutes ago, Lady Fevre Dream said:

I did read, it was better, of course, than what we did see and, MOST IMPORTANT:  Sensible.  As sensible as one can be with the dreck they've given us. 

And it's why the "Blame GRRM for this mess" thing doesn't resonate with me at all. Yes, GRRM's tardiness caused a decrease in the quality of the show without his original material. 

But it didn't have to be this big of a mess. We could have had a lesser quality show that is still nevertheless solid with sensible plot and proper character motivations.

You have to basically not give a **** at all the write the junk we ended up seeing, And that's the saddest part, that this property ended up in the hands of people who don't give a ****.