[Spoilers] Rant and Rave Without Repercussion

[GeorgeIAF]

GRRM must share part of the blame, when they started adapting the books to tv-screen i'm sure that they never thought he won't finish Winds of Winter until now. You can't expect D&D to write a good script in 1 year, when it takes GRRM more than 7 to write it down. At first they began by adapting a book to tv-screen, know they have to create from scratch, even though Martin told them how the books and the main storylines will end. Thankfully the quality of the CGI, the acting, the cast and so on keeps the emotion there for me, not so much for others though.

[Lucius Lovejoy]

Nice rant @RhaenysB, to be honest you kind of let them off easy by not mentioning that absolutely non of the dialouge made sense.  At all.  There was not one coherent exchange.  "Death is the enemy and the enemy always wins but we must keep fighting?!?!?!?!?!"  "My name is Thoros I'm a drunk."  "Yeah you got sold to a witch get over it."  Even the "funny" exchange between Tormund and the Hound wasn't really the sensical.

This was hands down the worst episode of the entire series, but something tells me it won't hold that title for long.

[Lord Varys]

32 minutes ago, Ser Arthur Hightower said:

The one nitpick I will disagree with is that the chains are unrealistic. There is no reason to believe the White Walkers can't get their thralls to work iron, maybe they had the chains prepared in advance for some other reason, or maybe they were made right then, after all if you can fly the length of Westeros in a couple of hours, then they could probably make some big ass chains in a day or two. lol

LOL, yeah, right, for some other reason. Like having some good chain sex with the dead, or what? Stop making excuses for that shit. It makes no sense for them to run around with such massive chains.

And by the way - can they finally begin to give the evil demons some dialogue? They look so moronic and ridiculous when they are just standing their like book Euron's mute crewmen.

[HexMachina]

I have nothing really of substance to ad except  whatdidijustwatch  

[Hound's She-Wolf 2]

54 minutes ago, lidsa said:

The hypersonic ravens were ridiculous, but what made me legitimately angry was that Jon offered Longclaw to Jorah, but never thought to offer it to Lyanna.

Really, Jon? The girl stood by you when you were dragging your balls through the mud, she's the one who made you king, and you're offering her ancestral sword to the slaver?

Shit! I hadn't even thought of that, what a jackass!

[wolfsbae]

19 minutes ago, RhaenysB said:

I mean can this get worse? I won't write down everything that was wrong with this episode because it would take hours, so let's just focus on the worst bits. 

1. Arya and Sansa. There are all kinds of wrong and stupid and egocentric. Competing who had it worse and more difficult in life probably wins all three categories when it comes to human interactions. But okay. We are all human, we all do stupid shit, we've all been there. Of course this doesn't mean that screentime should be spent on it. But then Arya acts like a complete psychopath and Sansa for some reason fears that the lords will hate her for something she did 6 years ago. Also, dont the lords know about this? This was the very letter that inspired Robb to march south and go to war against the Lannisters who held his father in captivity and his sister a hostage. Wasn't this common knowledge? And bringing up Lyanna Mormont whose idea of being a 10-year-old female means training the bow to be sent against a horde of zombies was just the worst. Lyanna Mormont is not what a ten year old is or ever should be. Arya's attitude is completely unfounded and psychotic, Sansa's concern is completely unfounded, their exchanges were cringy in every way possible. 

2. #feminism "what I did was against the rules, but it wasn't wrong, the rules were wrong" and "girls don't get to do what they want in this world" JUST. STOP. Does Jon, Jorah or Bran or any other guy get to do what they want in this world? I don't think so. 

3. Beyond Bullshit : So you go beyond the wall without fur hats and don't freeze in half a day? So you go beyond the wall for the first time and totally find your way back to eastwatch on the snow covered land? So you go beyond the wall where it's only cold enough that that the ice on top of a lake is like 2-3 inches thick and cracks when 7 average sized men step on it? And then it doesn't freeze back to the same 2 inch thickness in the matter of hours? And you go beyond the wall at sit at a comfortable distance from one another with no fire or shelter or fucking hates at night and don't freeze to death in the matter of hours? How cold is it beyond the wall? Like -5C? The ice on Lake Baikal is over 70cms thick in winter and hold 10 tons of weight in winter goddamnit, this place is supposed to be COLD. And how thick is plot armor? EVERYBODY survived that goddamn mission. Oh no, three nameless extras  didn't, and nor did Thoros who is like the seventh most important named character of the seven named characters on the trip. I was literally praying for Tormund to die so the goddamn episode would have some depth at least? 

4. More beyond bullshit - so Jon slays the walker and all the wights collapse except for one who conveniently wasn't animated by that walker so it can be captured?! What the actual fuck?! Just make up your mind. Do the wights fall if their walker is killed or do the wights not fall if their walker is killed, because this was just stupid and more random than anything I have ever seen in a plot. 

5. A bear? A goddamn bear? A GODDAMN BEAR? You have direwolves in the story to show and use and you waste CGI on a goddamn bear that doesn't even immediately take out the most disposable secondary character in the damn company? What was the POINT  of that bear? My fucking god, Jon's wolf hasn't made a damn appearance in the whole damn season and there's a fucking CGI bear that doesn't kill anybody? A fucking bear! Where did they get this genius idea? Aaah, look there was a bear in Vikings, should we do a bear? I mean yeah, it's not like we have other things to do with the leftover CGI budget. Okay so what should the bear do? Aaaah, nothing? I mean it could injure someone but you don't justhave the bear harm any of these very important and very relevant characters some of who we haven't seen for seasons! Yeah, okay. WHAT WAS THAT? Have JORAH fight the bear! Have Jorah be KILLED by the bear! Bear. Mormont. Shit. my god. 

6. Daenerys. So it's safe to say that I don't have a drop of sympathy for any of the main characters anymore. She flies in and saves everybody, lands, gets people on top of her dragon, and instead of immediately fleeing, they wait for Jon to fight. And Jon has to fight because he is fucking Jon and nobody tells him to get the fuck on the bloody dragon and out of here, I didn't fly in to watch you kill yourself, I'm here to take you out. So they wait. And wait. Patiently. So the NK has the time to get a spear, aim at Drogon, the dragon that landed and is carrying all humans, and last minute decide to throw it at ... er... that other dragon, it doesn't matter which one, nobody cares anyway. And then Jon is overpowered and bloody Daenerys is still waiting. Her dragon died for fucking Jon Snow and his stupidity. And it gets worse. They fly back to Eastwatch and she is looking out of a battlement, grief stricken because she lost fucking Jon Snow. Goddamn it, didn't your "child" just die?! We don't even find out which dragon died! Nobody cares. It's fucking Jon snow everybody cares about but he has plot armor and scuba gear thicker than the ice on lake baikal and he will come back anyways. And who cares about the dragon? We don't know his name and Jon snow is alive. Like who cares? Really? Who cares that their "child"/"pet" they had for 7 years died, the guy they've been crushing on for 2 months is fine! Thank god! It was all worth it! And that "Dany" line. My god. 

7. And the Hound takes he wight to KL by BOAT. Like... I guess maybe the other nameless dragon and Drogon actually take time off to mourn their brother and refuse to function as public transport? 

8. Cleisthenes Lannister, the most moral man in the universe. The night's watch and the Ironborn have a way. Yeah, they toss their cloak at the nearest buddy and tell them they have the NW. That's how Dolorous Edd became Lord Commander. Or they elect the absentee brother of the late lord who openly confesses to murdering his predecessor for no reason. WHAT A SYSTEM. And then I haven't said a damn word about democracy itself. Holy shit. At least he had a point about succession. It's interesting that this question has never been brought up in KL when childless, spouseless 40 year oldCersei Lannister was crowned. But I guess I'm asking too much by one episode being consistent with another. 

9. All the missed opportunities. Have Jorah fight/kill/be killed by the bear (if you must have the goddamn bear). Can I call you Dany? / ah-oh, my brother called me that? / ah-oh, can I call you the same thing as your family did? / ah-oh, yeah, welcome to the family zone Jon Snow, this is your chamber, your neighbor is Jorah at the next door to friend zone. Oh no, Tormund died! Oh no, Drogon died. Oh no, my other nameless dragon died too. Have. Something. Unexpected. Happen. Or I guess they did, because surely didn't expect everybody to survive and the least important dragon to fall. 

I'm just so appalled and so shaken. I mean is this rock bottom or is there lower? I bet there is. I just want a montage of cleganebowl and a wild Jon/"Dany" sex scene cut together and the season will be complete. And for god's sake where the fuck is Bran and Missandei? 

I'm so done. 

 

To be fair when I saw the bear I thought Jorah was for it. Jorah is my favourite in the company but at least it would have been symbolic. I really thought that was what they were going for, but then all that happened was the Hound shat himself at the fire, everyone else stands around doing nothing for a while until Jorah eventually stabs it. 

[RhaenysBee]

6 minutes ago, Lucius Lovejoy said:

Nice rant @RhaenysB, to be honest you kind of let them off easy by not mentioning that absolutely non of the dialouge made sense.  At all.  There was not one coherent exchange.  "Death is the enemy and the enemy always wins but we must keep fighting?!?!?!?!?!"  "My name is Thoros I'm a drunk."  "Yeah you got sold to a witch get over it."  Even the "funny" exchange between Tormund and the Hound wasn't really the sensical.

This was hands down the worst episode of the entire series, but something tells me it won't hold that title for long.

I mean I did say it would take hours if I wanted to touch on everything that was wrong. And the dialogue was far from the worst of it. It was filler and repetition and boring but oh well, I can live with that. 

What I can't live with is Daenerys caring more about goddamn Jon snow than her nameless dragon. And the bear. And my kitchen counter that's thicker than the ice on a lake beyond the wall. 

[funeh]

1 hour ago, lidsa said:

The hypersonic ravens were ridiculous, but what made me legitimately angry was that Jon offered Longclaw to Jorah, but never thought to offer it to Lyanna.

Really, Jon? The girl stood by you when you were dragging your balls through the mud, she's the one who made you king, and you're offering her ancestral sword to the slaver?

wtf lmao so true xdd

 

 

i wanna like this show but reading this thread makes me hate it more than I already do xD so counterproductive 

 

[RhaenysBee]

5 minutes ago, S. OF HOUSE STARK said:

To be fair when I saw the bear I thought Jorah was for it. Jorah is my favourite in the company but at least it would have been symbolic. I really thought that was what they were going for, but then all that happened was the Hound shat himself at the fire, everyone else stands around doing nothing for a while until Jorah eventually stabs it. 

But Jorah didn't fight the bear, Thoros and Beric did and we watched he Hound not do anything and a nameless extra die. Jorah had no weight in that scene at all. 

 When bjorn fought the bear in Vikings, it was at least symbolic, though a truly fucked up scene. And they had a real bear. 60% of the problem with this bear was that they wasted CGI on it while Ghost hasn't made an appearance for like two seasons? 

[wolfsbae]

3 minutes ago, RhaenysB said:

But Jorah didn't fight the bear, Thoros and Beric did and we watched he Hound not do anything and a nameless extra die. Jorah had no weight in that scene at all. 

 When bjorn fought the bear in Vikings, it was at least symbolic, though a truly fucked up scene. And they had a real bear. 60% of the problem with this bear was that they wasted CGI on it while Ghost hasn't made an appearance for like two seasons? 

I'd take no bear and a lot less dragon screentime for just a god damn GLIMPSE of Ghost. 

[Rockroi]

So, I don’t have a general breakdown of this episode because it was a very narrow episode overall.  So only so much to talk about:

The Battle Beyond the Wall:

The Journey and the Battle  

This is broken down into two parts- the trip up to find the Zombie and the battle on the frozen lake.  I really liked both parts to a degree, but overall felt that this was such a sloppy and stale story-line overall.

I loved the journey; the characters talking back and forth; their sort of “band of brothers” fusing.  I liked all that and I liked that the characters each stayed true to themselves AND interesting.  Its natural for Jorah to want t talk about his father and Jon about his.  I thought that while Gendry was- predictably – underutilized, I liked his interplay with the Hound etc.  

And Tormond is fucking gold.  

And I liked the detailing heading to the final battle.

The final battle itself was intense.  Great fighting, exceptional back and forth; good sense of dread; that anyone would die at any time.

But … again, how long did it take the group to make it to the battle cite?  How long did it take Gendry to run backl to the Wall?  Then, how long did it take the MW to get a message out to Dany?  Then how long did it take Dany to FLY  from Dragonstone to the Wall?  Then how long did it take Dany to FIND where they were in the vast North?  

Apparently something like 8 hours. To me, that’s just sloppy.  Its convenient. 

Again, think about Baelor.  Imagine if in that scene, just as Ned was being lowered to the block, a horn called out and somebody yelled, “There is  Stark Army at our gates!!!!”  That’s almost exactly what happened here with Dany and her Dragons.  They showed up at the exact time to make maximum impact, to deliver the most fan service as possible.  Now, to be fair, I LIKED seeing all three dragons unleashing holy hell on the Walkers, but the Space-time PHYSICS involved are HIGHLY questionable.  

Oh, and the entire plan itself was fucking stupid.  Have Dany fly and see the Zombies.  Done.  

The Aftermath

So, a dragon died.  Which one?  Who knows!  The show never developed either dragon after Drogon.  But a dragon was killed.  Quickly.  Again, I see the  sloppiness – the show has a guy throw a javelin and it instantly kills a dragon.  Why?  Because they need to.  Regardless, Dany is now one dragon.

And Dany seems FAR MORE broken up by almost losing Jon Snow than losing her dragon.  Its REALLY fucking weird.  But it’s a minor quibble.

Love Zombie Dragon.  

But … really… how does a blacksmith who has never been to the North make it back to the Wall so quickly?  

Dany and Tyrion: Great.  Loved it.  Dany continues to seem both focused and DANGEROUSLY UNHINGED!  Tyrion gave excellent advice, showed her why she was not working with him properly, and then he decided to challenge him, which is her MO.  I think the show has done well in making it that Dany has SERIOUS trust issues.  
And the later scene- where Dany decides to go to the Wall – Tyrion is making perfect sense, but Dany has EXCELLET reasons to go there.  I like watching them interact and work with each other, even when they disagree.

Arya and Sansa: What. The. Fuck. Is. Going. On?:  What a waste.  What a wasteful, garbage story-line.  The conflict is forced; it makes no sense and both characters take the narrowest and least reasonable view of the situation.  Arya is acting like a psychopath; she talks like one, she feels like one and she is super creepy.  Why?  Well, somebody would say, “Its because she is loyal to Jon?”  Really?  Why?  Okay, YEARS ago she loved Jon but she has since been reunited with Sansa and Bran and she has NO feelings for them.  Also, for somebody that wants the Lannisters dead, Arya does not seem to see how VALUABLE Sansa is right now.  Sansa is doing a great job of running the North and she is keeping the Eerie loyal.  She is doing exceptional work and keeping the North Strong… something Starks have been fucking up for close to 30 years.  So, to Arya, is it more important to her to kill/bother Sansa and potentially imperil the entire North.  Including, Mr. Perfect, Jon Snow.  
Basically, she seems like she is just taking her actions because she hates Sansa.  
And that is boring.

But it gets worse.  Why did Sansa send Brienne away?  Brienne is the ONLY person in the seven kingdoms who can sword fight with a 12-year-old.  I CAN’T BELIEVE THAT IS WHERE WE ARE!  But why would Sansa send Brienne away?  Why not go herself to get away from Creepy McGuillicutty?  But you don’t send the person YOUW ERE JUST TOLD WOULD ALWAYS PROTECT YOU away from the person who will likely murder you.

I DID have a special theory- namely that when Sansa sent Brienne away… because she wasn’t Sansa; but that Arya had “taken her face” and done it after she learned that LF and Sansa had decided to keep Brienne so close.  But I THINK you must KILL somebody before you can take their face.  But not certain on that.  

Anyway, while I liked parts of the episode and the final fight was Dragon-tacular… its so obviously being rushed, it may be immediately pleasurable, but in hind-sight its not a good use of our energies.  

In a way, Game of Thrones is McDonalds fast food; its quick, its cheap, it gives immediately satisfaction, but when you break it all down you know what you just had wasn't actually good.  
 

[Corvinus85]

I am now glad Ghost didn't go with Jon. They would have killed him as they did Summer, to make room for more dragon CGI. Ghost can stay safe and sound at Winterfell, and only appear now and then.

[Cas Stark]

This show is sloppy and cliche as fuck.  That is all.

[Rhodan]

Also, don´t you think how even episode titles are frequently uninventive? The season premiere was named Dragonstone after the location that was part of the show  since season 2 and this one is named after the realm that was used for the very first moments of the series :-).

[Lady Fevre Dream]

So, I've been waiting a few days to officially say, in public, I think the stupidest, funniest thing in this episode must have been;  RUN TO EASTWATCH..........WTF??  Send a raven half across the continent, beg for Dany and the dragons, we'll just wait here, ok?  WT actual fuck?  Oh, and drop the hammer?  HA

[btfu806]

I am going to gloss over a lot because there isn't enough time to write everything that was wrong this episode but...

Last episodes ends with the seven adventurers going north of the wall, this episode starts with now 13ish past the wall. Where did they get these other people? Not even a lazy sentence like, hey good thing we found these guys at an outpost or whatever. Just lazy writing because they wanted to kill some useless people.

All that banter should have happened on the way to eastwatch but w/e. Nice to see them talking I guess?

Take the bear back that you just killed that's obviously a WW.... problem solved.

Yay for plot convenience where all but one WW died when you killed the leader...

Gendry is apparently an olympic sprinter who can sprint a marathon distance, in an environment he has never seen before in a place he has never been before. Oh! and can give pinpoint directions to Danny through a raven ... OK.

The whole fight with the WW, the timely throw by the Hound to prove the ice was frozen, WW just standing around for no reason, none of it made sense and was stupid. 

Deus ex Dragon.

Night's King with an improbable throw hits its mark, the easier throw he misses (but when he hit the dragon, that was awesome have to mention that). 

Jon should have drown. Anyone that has spent time on a lake in the northern United States or in Canada will tell you that if you fall through ice, it's pretty close to a death sentence. His furs would have weighed him down too much, muscles cramped up, etc., he should be dead ..... again.

Deus ex Benjen. 

Titanic all over again ..... the horse was big enough for two...

Awkward forced romance between Danny and Jon. They don't have a connection and I am still convinced it's not going to happen in the books (maybe at the very end, but more likely an arranged marriage).

The conversation about the name, Danny. Stupid.

WW apparently have chains? and can lift a dragon out of the water? OK....

Also, just in general. Teleporting!

Everything between Sansa and Arya, doesn't make sense. Forced by the writers to create tension. 

There is a lot more, but I am just getting annoyed again by it all so I should stop now.

[Pontius2000]

So the wights won't walk on the frozen ice because they're apparently afraid of getting wet. But when theres a dead dragon in the water, they somehow work up the nerve to get in the water to hook up the giant chains they bought from Hardhome Depot?

and I saw somebody try to explain they weren't actually afraid of getting wet, but the Night King purposely held them back because he knew the dragons were coming. If that's the case, then Half-Face-Skeleton-Zombie is a freethinker who took  it upon himself to walk on the ice without the NK's permission?

the writing in this episode was just so awful that imo, this may have been the worst episode to date

[funeh]

Why didnt they took ravens with them like every other sane being in the world. 

[Cas Stark]

5 minutes ago, Lady Fevre Dream said:

So, I've been waiting a few days to officially say, in public, I think the stupidest, funniest thing in this episode must have been;  RUN TO EASTWATCH..........WTF??  Send a raven half across the continent, beg for Dany and the dragons, we'll just wait here, ok?  WT actual fuck?  Oh, and drop the hammer?  HA

Why is Gendry fast?  He's strong, okay, we got that.  But fast?  Um, no.  He's only ever lived in in KL or been held captive.  Of all of the Seven Samuri, he is the one who would die on his own because he knows shit about Winter, the North, tracking anyone, staying alive in snow or anything.  But, since they were apparently only a few miles from Eastwatch, I guess no biggie.  LOLZZZ  So bad.

[Corvinus85]

So it's been show a 2nd time now that White Walkers have superhuman strength, with the NK harpooning the dragon. Firs time was when the WW that Sam killed, initially swathed Sam aside with no effort.

But Jon the Mighty has now overtaken Sam in number of WW kills, on both occasions with normal sword play. I guess it's another Briennve vs. Arya scenario, but on a different scale.

Also, I though it was extremely convenient that one, and just one, out of the band of wights didn't drop when the WW was killed.