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Risto

Discussing Sansa XXXII: Game of Faces

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And so we continue with our story...

Another week has passed and it seems that the situation in Wibnterfell is getting progressively worse for our ginger Stark. Between Arya's accusations, Littlefinger's games, Brienne's absence, Sansa is walking on the edge of the knife. How this Game will end it remains to be seen, but it does seem everyone is playing everyone at this moment.

What do you think? Who will prevail? Are Stark sisters really going to clash or is LF doomed?

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I think LF is most likely doomed.

I also think Sansa is probably the most rational one of out the three right now. Arya has just....did she think Sansa was treated as an honored guest during her time in King's Landing? It's almost like everything Sansa did or does is subject to criticism--even the snide comment about 'knitting'. 

IDK about you but clothing is pretty important, especially with Winter coming.

Arya just came off as straight up crazy in this episode and Sansa's fear is totally palpable. I mean, her little sister is talking about wearing her face as a mask...and her last tormentor/abuser/husband flayed people for fun. 

The argument about Lyanna Mormont was dumb too....like, Lyanna is surrounded by loyal men. Sansa had literally no one in King's Landing. It reminds me of how people are so quick to judge soldiers on the opposite side of wars---without realizing that defying their conscription they are subjecting themselves and their entire families to punishment or death. 

People love to say that if they were in a situation then they'd do the 'right thing'. It's called "Not-Me Syndrome" in sociology. But in reality, almost no one would 'fight back' or 'refuse and die'. That's not how people work. 

It reminds me kind of when in season 2 when Arya was in Harrenhal:

"You're one of them now, I should've let you burn"

"And you fetch water for one of them, now. Why is this okay for you but not for me?"

Same type of attitude.

But I think Sansa has really handled the situation marvelously. Also, sending Brienne away when she let Littlefinger believe she would use her to kill Arya was genius. Always keep your foes confused.

I hope the Stark sisters make up. But unless this is some elaborate ruse (which I doubt it is), I know I'd personally find it very very hard to ever trust Arya again if I was Sansa.

That level of hostility for just about no reason is uncalled for.

 

Also I just wanted to say I love these threads. I used to lurk on here before I joined and I always would read these ones.

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Bran knows Sansa is going to fuck the other Starks.

What's interesting is what is not said by LF and Sansa, Brienne will protect you from Arya.  Sansa sends Brienne away paving the way for her to move against her sister.

Would LF shit his pants should he find out Arya is a FM, maybe that's why Bran does not give a fuck about him he ends up a groveling wrek in front of Arya.

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How is this plot believable at all? HBO clearly isn't going to kill off Arya or Sansa. It's been so obvious that Littlefinger will die.

The plot armor on this show has quadrupled ever since the show ran out of source material in the books. No way that GRRM would have all of these characters alive and well at the point we're at in the show.

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I lol'd at Sansa going through Arya's things thinking she's gonna find something slightly suspicious and immediately coming across a collection of ACTUAL faces in a messenger bag. 

That should be the climax of at least 2 Japanese horror movies. 

Sansa keeps proving she's a better leader than Jon because she thought to send an emissary to meet with a potentially dangerous queen instead of going herself.

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3 minutes ago, Pandean said:

I think LF is most likely doomed.

I also think Sansa is probably the most rational one of out the three right now. Arya has just....did she think Sansa was treated as an honored guest during her time in King's Landing? It's almost like everything Sansa did or does is subject to criticism--even the snide comment about 'knitting'. 

IDK about you but clothing is pretty important, especially with Winter coming.

Arya just came off as straight up crazy in this episode and Sansa's fear is totally palpable. I mean, her little sister is talking about wearing her face as a mask...and her last tormentor/abuser/husband flayed people for fun. 

The argument about Lyanna Mormont was dumb too....like, Lyanna is surrounded by loyal men. Sansa had literally no one in King's Landing. It reminds me of how people are so quick to judge soldiers on the opposite side of wars---without realizing that defying their conscription they are subjecting themselves and their entire families to punishment or death. 

People love to say that if they were in a situation then they'd do the 'right thing'. It's called "Not-Me Syndrome" in sociology. But in reality, almost no one would 'fight back' or 'refuse and die'. That's not how people work. 

It reminds me kind of when in season 2 when Arya was in Harrenhal:

"You're one of them now, I should've let you burn"

"And you fetch water for one of them, now. Why is this okay for you but not for me?"

Same type of attitude.

But I think Sansa has really handled the situation marvelously. Also, sending Brienne away when she let Littlefinger believe she would use her to kill Arya was genius. Always keep your foes confused.

I hope the Stark sisters make up. But unless this is some elaborate ruse (which I doubt it is), I know I'd personally find it very very hard to ever trust Arya again if I was Sansa.

That level of hostility for just about no reason is uncalled for.

 

Also I just wanted to say I love these threads. I used to lurk on here before I joined and I always would read these ones.

 

Yes, these Arya/Sansa scenes really showed how Sansa has matured and Arya has become a loose cannon.  I'm pretty sure that book-Arya remembered how Sansa had screamed while their father was pushed to his knees for execution.  

I think Arya is testing Sansa.  But it really isn't her job.  No one appointed or designated Arya to be Jon's spy/assassin.  If she were more rational, Arya would observe, gather information, sneak around, and wait until a crime was actually being planned, rather than try to pull disloyalty out of Sansa's thoughts, much less threaten to murder the Lady of Winterfell.  It calls up questions as to Arya's stability and her place in Winterfell, which should have been assured.  I hope that the sisters can finally come together.  (and why the heck aren't either of them mourning for Rickon?  They could have shown us 60 seconds of his funeral and 60 seconds less of Sam emptying bedpans)

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4 minutes ago, elder brother jonothor dar said:

Bran knows Sansa is going to fuck the other Starks.

What's interesting is what is not said by LF and Sansa, Brienne will protect you from Arya.  Sansa sends Brienne away paving the way for her to move against her sister.

Would LF shit his pants should he find out Arya is a FM, maybe that's why Bran does not give a fuck about him he ends up a groveling wrek in front of Arya.

Sansa has not shown in any way she wants to fuck the other Starks. This whole season she's been concerned, caring, trying to unify the North, and even when she's worrying about the letter it's because she doesn't want them to abandon and lose faith in JON. 

IMO, Sansa sent Brienne away precisely because LF suggested she use Brienne against Arya. 

 

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6 minutes ago, Pandean said:

I hope the Stark sisters make up. But unless this is some elaborate ruse (which I doubt it is), I know I'd personally find it very very hard to ever trust Arya again if I was Sansa.

That level of hostility for just about no reason is uncalled for.

 

I find Aryas reaction genuine she has not completed her FM training has a lot of guilt anger going on.

She had seen something in Sansa she does not trust and is trying to play the lying game with her to get at the truth.  Yes she is a psyco add to that sibling rivalry and memories of home, it all adds up to a fucked up little girl trying to reconcile her past and future.

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Just now, Raksha 2014 said:

 

Yes, these Arya/Sansa scenes really showed how Sansa has matured and Arya has become a loose cannon.  I'm pretty sure that book-Arya remembered how Sansa had screamed while their father was pushed to his knees for execution.  

I think Arya is testing Sansa.  But it really isn't her job.  No one appointed or designated Arya to be Jon's spy/assassin.  If she were more rational, Arya would observe, gather information, sneak around, and wait until a crime was actually being planned, rather than try to pull disloyalty out of Sansa's thoughts, much less threaten to murder the Lady of Winterfell.  It calls up questions as to Arya's stability and her place in Winterfell, which should have been assured.  I hope that the sisters can finally come together.  (and why the heck aren't either of them mourning for Rickon?  They could have shown us 60 seconds of his funeral and 60 seconds less of Sam emptying bedpans)

Sansa definitely seems the most mature and level-headed of the Stark children now. Also, I think Book Arya would cry if she saw Show Arya and then kill her for threatening her pack.

 

Yeah. Arya seems to believe there's this grand treason against Jon from Sansa even though there is literally nothing to prove it. She's seemed to be looking at Sansa through this lense since they met again and almost seems to have this viciousness toward her she didn't before. I do find it interesting that Show!Arya is a lot meaner/a bully to Show!Sansa despite Book!Sansa being a brat to Book!Arya. 

Also, that brings up my "Arya is not omnipotent' argument. It's obvious her accusations are clouded severely by her judgments about Sansa. She's pretty lucky that Sansa didn't order Arya to be locked up for threatening to kill her. 

I honestly would be surprised if Arya had a place at Winterfell in the end. Sansa seems to be solidly the Stark in Winterfell now.

 

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I do think that Maisie Williams can act rings around Sophie Turner.  I watched as line for line Arya seemed to be making much more of an impact and ST seemed to be backing up. 

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Just now, elder brother jonothor dar said:

I find Aryas reaction genuine she has not completed her FM training has a lot of guilt anger going on.

She had seen something in Sansa she does not trust and is trying to play the lying game with her to get at the truth.  Yes she is a psyco add to that sibling rivalry and memories of home, it all adds up to a fucked up little girl trying to reconcile her past and future.

The fact that Arya never completed her FM training makes me think that whenever she does try to get inside someone's head or find lies/truth, they're clouded with her own emotions and judgments.

Which makes sense. Arya is a very emotionally volatile character.

But I think that she's seeing things that aren't really there, especially in Sansa's case.

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1 minute ago, lakin1013 said:

I do think that Maisie Williams can act rings around Sophie Turner.  I watched as line for line Arya seemed to be making much more of an impact and ST seemed to be backing up. 

I think they have two very different styles of acting which compliments both characters.

Arya is a lot more emotionally volatile so Maisie is a lot more expressive.

Sansa is a lot more subtle so Sophie uses a lot of subtle acting in the way she speaks, her expressions, and the way she holds her body.

I think they're perfect for the characters they play.

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6 minutes ago, lakin1013 said:

I do think that Maisie Williams can act rings around Sophie Turner.  I watched as line for line Arya seemed to be making much more of an impact and ST seemed to be backing up. 

 

I thought Sansa stood her ground pretty well, considering that she was disturbed/frightened by what Arya had become.  She could have run, screamed, called for a guard, cried and begged Arya to stop, or slapped the traitor her sister appeared to have become, but she didn't.  And she didn't play Arya's game.   Both the actresses did a good job with the material they were given.

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Really surprised I'm typing this but I'm starting to believe Sansa joins with Cersei. If anything it's the only way to even the playing field.

 

The theme the show keeps bringing up is Sansa challenging Jon for the throne.

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2 minutes ago, tallTale said:

Really surprised I'm typing this but I'm starting to believe Sansa joins with Cersei. If anything it's the only way to even the playing field.

 

The theme the show keeps bringing up is Sansa challenging Jon for the throne.

But she isn't? At all?

Why would she join Cersei when she distinctly shows her disdain for her? Going as far as not going into King's Landing?

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24 minutes ago, elder brother jonothor dar said:

 

What's interesting is what is not said by LF and Sansa, Brienne will protect you from Arya.  Sansa sends Brienne away paving the way for her to move against her sister

Exactly! I think Sansa sent Brianne away so she could not protect Arya, but Sansa does not really know what Arya is capable of, even though she has seen her fight and heard about the stories. Sansa may be politically cunning, but Arya is ruthless. Don't F with Arya!

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16 minutes ago, Lockjaw of House Boltagon said:

I lol'd at Sansa going through Arya's things thinking she's gonna find something slightly suspicious and immediately coming across a collection of ACTUAL faces in a messenger bag. 

That should be the climax of at least 2 Japanese horror movies. 

Sansa keeps proving she's a better leader than Jon because she thought to send an emissary to meet with a potentially dangerous queen instead of going herself.

I was going to mention that myself. At least one key player is smart enough to stay the hell away from Cersei. Really, how many people would actually be willing to make a meet after the  wildfire episode at the sept? 

15 minutes ago, Pandean said:

Sansa has not shown in any way she wants to fuck the other Starks. This whole season she's been concerned, caring, trying to unify the North, and even when she's worrying about the letter it's because she doesn't want them to abandon and lose faith in JON. 

IMO, Sansa sent Brienne away precisely because LF suggested she use Brienne against Arya. 

 

I agree. I'm hoping against hope that this is all some elaborate ruse by Arya to draw LF out somehow. Her character as presented now is just a vile, vicious unlikeable bitch. There aren't many Starks left. It's unfortunate what they've done to her. I hope what we are seeing isn't what we actually get in the end. 

7 minutes ago, Pandean said:

I think they have two very different styles of acting which compliments both characters.

Arya is a lot more emotionally volatile so Maisie is a lot more expressive.

Sansa is a lot more subtle so Sophie uses a lot of subtle acting in the way she speaks, her expressions, and the way she holds her body.

I think they're perfect for the characters they play.

I agree with this 100% also. I've heard a lot of criticism about Sophie Turner's acting. That she seems emotionless, blah, blah, blah. But not everyone wheats their heart on their sleeve. Some people are naturally restrained and her character is definitely more rational and composed than Arya. I think this adds more realism to the cast. Not everyone is a walking soap opera drama queen. 

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6 minutes ago, Pandean said:

But she isn't? At all?

Why would she join Cersei when she distinctly shows her disdain for her? Going as far as not going into King's Landing?

Sansa clearly believes she should at least be in charge of the North. Arya sees it. I think Sansa would turn on Jon if she felt in danger or threatened. 

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8 minutes ago, tallTale said:

Really surprised I'm typing this but I'm starting to believe Sansa joins with Cersei. If anything it's the only way to even the playing field.

 

The theme the show keeps bringing up is Sansa challenging Jon for the throne.

Sometimes I wonder if I'm watching the same show when I see posts like this? Pay attention to what she told LF when they were talking. Nothing she said would indicate that at all. If anything she is concerned about keeping the men together for his sake when he gets back. At least that's how I saw it...

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