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Okay, NOW Have We Seen The Most Wildly Unrealistic Thing Ever on GoT???


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2 minutes ago, ramla said:

Hmmm Im wondering if they were near Hardhome or somewhere further. We see a lot of wide expanses and mountainous terrain. Like when they ran into the Polor bear wight. Problem with further is that if its over a 100 or 200 miles away it create more of a distance and time issue. 

I gather the Maps that are available are estimates at best then.

true, and It must have shrunk, cause it took forever to get places on seasons 1 to 3

if they can survive under water (Which i know they can) then why the whole 2 day stand off because the lice cracked? You're right tho. it just shows the inconsistency of it all.

That siege equipment aspect also raises the question of how they were going to attack the wall? They can't get beyond it by normal means. what was the plan? Of course hes (the Nites King) got a Dragon now, but what was he going to do if he didn't luck up?

Well they have all the time in the world so why not wait rather than sacrifice thousands of undead sinking to the bottom of the lake and have to wait for ages for them to haul themselves out or until the pile is so large that others can crawl on top?

Two massive advantages that the undead army will have over the human army is they require no supplies (food) or sleep.  The army is replenished everytime they defeat another army.  Patience is definitely on their side if (when) they can breach the Wall!

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I haven't seen anybody point out that Cersei clarified in the pilot that King's Landing was a month away from Winterfell when an entire royal convoy was taking the Kingsroad.  What that actually does for the distances in the context of this episode I'm not sure, but there is some metric to compare.  

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53 minutes ago, ramla said:

Hmmm Im wondering if they were near Hardhome or somewhere further. We see a lot of wide expanses and mountainous terrain. Like when they ran into the Polor bear wight. Problem with further is that if its over a 100 or 200 miles away it create more of a distance and time issue. 

I gather the Maps that are available are estimates at best then.

true, and It must have shrunk, cause it took forever to get places on seasons 1 to 3

if they can survive under water (Which i know they can) then why the whole 2 day stand off because the lice cracked? You're right tho. it just shows the inconsistency of it all.

That siege equipment aspect also raises the question of how they were going to attack the wall? They can't get beyond it by normal means. what was the plan? Of course hes (the Nites King) got a Dragon now, but what was he going to do if he didn't luck up?

It's quite possible that the Nights King was expecting Dany you arrive.

Considering he can see Bran when he wargs even through time, it's not too far fetched to believe that he may have powers similar to Bran

im starting to think bran and the nights king are more related than ever before.

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I was going to post this same topic right after the show, but just said what the hell, why even bother.

This entire season and particularly in the last two episodes--Game of Thrones has become just another TV show to me.  I will still watch.  But much of the magic is gone.

A big chunk of the problem in season 7 are temporal issues.  This does not only relate to the speed characters are moving around Westros, but to how fast events are unfolding in the storyline.  It seems the show runners are racing for the exit, and they don't care how they get there.

Shame.

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6 hours ago, Ser Gareth said:

Part?  I'd say most of the blame lies with GRRM.  Selling his story's rights before even finishing the story.  You could argue that HBO were also daft for purchasing the story when it wasn't even finished but in reality the show has been a major success so I doubt many people are HBO are sorry about it.  And in truth I doubt GRRM is that bothered either.  He is now a very rich man.  And his book publishers won't mind because, thanks to the show, they've already sold more ASOIAF books than they thought was possible.  So the only real losers in the books not being finished are the readers.

I just really wish that GRRM had been realistic and concentrated on helping and writing for the show once it was clear that TWOW wasn't going to come out in time.  Because as much as he is to blame (not just because he has been so slow, but also because AFFC and ADWD were a marked decline in story telling quality comparative to the first three) there is no doubt that had GRRM been involved the overall quality of the show would have been even better than it is now.

I mostly agree with you, but I'm not sure that it would be better with more of GRRM's direct hands-on. Don't get me wrong. I love this world and will be lost until the first spin off... but - it's not solely on D&D.

GRRM is the one who decided to break linear storytelling with the events of the last 35% of Storm, all of Feast, and most of Dance happening simultaneously. And you're also spot on regarding the last two books not being as good as the first three. No question there.

I've read all over the place that GRRM finished Winds ages ago, but his editors keep sending it back for clean up - maybe because it's a logistical mess with too many storylines to track - per usual. 

Personally, I think D&D are fraking miracle workers adapting this story to a visual medium in any way whatsoever. Especially considering the way it's told from inside character's heads including all of their biases. But to do it this well, making historical television in the process is huge. 

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10 hours ago, Ser Gareth said:

Some people would rather the show dragged on and on with shedloads of travel monologues.

Yes. That's exactly what people are asking for.  Shedloads (?) or travel monologues, just like what we got with Arya and the Hound.

:rolleyes:

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4 hours ago, ramla said:

LOL Yes i was trying to figure that math out. I think a part of the puzzle is how far did the magnificent 7 march before Gendry began his marathon back. Looking at the map they had to have been out of the haunted forest to be near the mountains. Which raises a great many other questions.

Wow, excellent point, seriously.

That's the first time I've heard someone give some concrete indication about how far north the expedition was, even roughly speaking.

And it seems like the answer is "pretty far," cuz as you say, they were out of the forest and, yes, by the mountains.

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1 hour ago, Lurid Jester said:

Yes. That's exactly what people are asking for.  Shedloads (?) or travel monologues, just like what we got with Arya and the Hound.

:rolleyes:

Not necessarily.

Other alternatives have been discussed, such as having Dany, full of worry, decide to fly up to Eastwatch to wait in case the expedition gets in trouble.  And, oh, hey, whadda ya know, here comes Gendry! Or, maybe she's patrolling even a bit north of Eastwatch, and sees a long figure, goes to investigate, and whadda ya know, it's Gendry.

Or, hey, just don't do the "Hunt for the Wight" AT ALL, which has come under massive criticism by many people for many reasons anyway.

But hey, who knows, maybe the seasons finale will be a smashing hit, and the Hunt for the Wight will soon be forgotten.

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4 hours ago, S. OF HOUSE STARK said:

Even more hilarious - Beric Dondarrion remembers he has a flaming sword AFTER his friend freezes to death. 

HAR!

We'll add that observation to the Master List.

Here's another one I recently heard (dunno if anyone here has mentioned it or not)

In addition to it being really convenient that the NK, apparently, was hauling around those massive chains, note that the wights were totally stymied by the water, until, presumably, some of them had to go down INTO the water to attach the chains to Viserion in order to drag him out of the water.

It just goes on and on and on...

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I can't believe people even care about this at all.

The show indicates at least 24 hours have passed and it is very easy to assume twice that has passed since they got on the rocks.

A freaking carrier pigeon can make it 750 miles in a day.  They have that plus more.......it could realisticly be anywhere from 32 to 72 hours on that rock which means a carrier pigeon could have traveled the 1000 miles no problem and the dragons could have flown back.

The teleporation isn't even an issue in this instance based on math.  Plus, Jon Snow seems to think they aren't so far from the wall that Gendry can't get back there in time for Dany to come within a day or two.  The characters establish the time frames by what they say in the show.

They clearly indicated the passage of at least one night and perhaps one could argue two nights.

Dragons are fast.

The issue was why did the NK just wait there for a couple of days?????

Maybe they have a convo about that in the future with Bran.....why the NK waited on the dragons.

Book people say he can warg/see like 3ER.

Anyway, the teleporting was fine imo it was the ungiven reason for the NK waiting that hurt the suspension of disbelief for me.

I know one thing.  Without an ice dragon the Night King was just headed to an easy slaughter vs. Dany and her dragons.

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3 minutes ago, Cron said:

HAR!

We'll add that observation to the Master List.

Here's another one I recently heard (dunno if anyone here has mentioned it or not)

In addition to it being really convenient that the NK, apparently, was hauling around those massive chains, note that the wights were totally stymied by the water, until, presumably, some of them had to go down INTO the water to attach the chains to Viserion in order to drag him out of the water.

It just goes on and on and on...

Yeah, it feels like this episode had more plot holes than the entire first two seasons.  Certainly more than season 1.  

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In the grand scheme of things, it doesn't matter how far Gendry ran. What matters is Eastwatch is 2000+ miles from Dragonstone. The distance from the Wall to Jon is essentially nothing compared to 2000 miles.

Gendry got to Eastwatch around dusk of day 1. The group clearly had an uneasy sleep through that night, and were then attacked late in that next day (we saw no other indication they stayed another night).

That means the raven flew to Dragonstone, and Dany flew to their rescue in 20-24 hours.

The very fastest competition homing pigeons can fly ~90 MPH, so let's say these special ravens can sustain 100 MPH. That's 20 hours just for the raven to reach Dany. For her to get to John in 4 hours, her dragons would have to fly 500 MPH with her clinging to Drogon's back. 

I've read other estimates around here that came to conclusion dragons could fly 150-200 MPH, meaning it took Dany 10-13 hours to make her rescue trip. That leaves 7-14 hours for the raven to make its trip, meaning they would have to fly 142-285 MPH.

These times are clearly unrealistic, but they aren't off by orders of magnitude like many on here are making them out to be. Jon didn't need to spend days or weeks on that lake for Dany to get to them, but she probably needed ~40 hours, meaning they should have spent 2 nights on that rock...which we were given no indication happened.

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46 minutes ago, ShadowKitteh said:

I've read all over the place that GRRM finished Winds ages ago, but his editors keep sending it back for clean up - maybe because it's a logistical mess with too many storylines to track - per usual. 

He has unequivocally said that the book is not finished, even in manuscript form.

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1 hour ago, xjlxking said:

It's quite possible that the Nights King was expecting Dany you arrive.

Considering he can see Bran when he wargs even through time, it's not too far fetched to believe that he may have powers similar to Bran

im starting to think bran and the nights king are more related than ever before.

That would explain it. It wouldn't be good story-wise, in my opinion but it would add up.

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3 minutes ago, nscheffel said:

In the grand scheme of things, it doesn't matter how far Gendry ran. What matters is Eastwatch is 2000+ miles from Dragonstone. The distance from the Wall to Jon is essentially nothing compared to 200 miles.

Gendry got to Eastwatch around dusk of day 1. The group clearly had an uneasy sleep through that night, and were then attacked late in that next day (we saw no other indication they stayed another night).

That means the raven flew to Dragonstone, and Dany flew to their rescue in 20-24 hours.

The very fastest competition homing pigeons can fly ~90 MPH, so let's say these special ravens can sustain 100 MPH. That's 20 hours just for the raven to reach Dany. For her to get to John in 4 hours, her dragons would have to fly 500 MPH with her clinging to Drogon's back. 

I've read other estimates around here that came to conclusion dragons could fly 150-200 MPH, meaning it took Dany 10-13 hours to make her rescue trip. That leaves 7-14 hours for the raven to make its trip, meaning they would have to fly 142-285 MPH.

These times are clearly unrealistic, but they aren't off by orders of magnitude like many on here are making them out to be. Jon didn't need to spend days or weeks on that lake for Dany to get to them, but she probably needed ~40 hours, meaning they should have spent 2 nights on that rock...which we were given no indication happened.

* Except birds don't fly at night and winter has longer nights.

* And it takes 3 full days for a well rested world champion pigeon in optimal conditions just to reach Danny.

* That's not even accounting how long does Gendry needed to get back to the wall, it was very clear by the beginning of the show; they were days away from wall on foot. They passed the haunted forest and were in the mountains near Hardhome.

* They would die, they can't keep warm for a week there (Danny still needs to get back to them). They wouldn't even last two days there, tbh. Entire witch hunt thing, the idea, reasoning behind it, the execution of it, everything around it - is just bad, really bad.

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2 hours ago, xjlxking said:

It's quite possible that the Nights King was expecting Dany you arrive.

Considering he can see Bran when he wargs even through time, it's not too far fetched to believe that he may have powers similar to Bran

im starting to think bran and the nights king are more related than ever before.

Except Danny is no greenseer and she was on her way there regardless if Jon is alive or not. 

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15 minutes ago, Cas Stark said:

Yeah, it feels like this episode had more plot holes than the entire first two seasons.  Certainly more than season 1.  

Agreed.

Oh well, I've already given three "9's" and  "10" this season when grading the episodes, so who knows, maybe the season finale will allow the season to end on a strong note that will carry us all the way through our wait for Season 8.

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