Okay, NOW Have We Seen The Most Wildly Unrealistic Thing Ever on GoT???

[Cron]

1 hour ago, Being Daenerys Targaryen said:

Something like a sled? Before they saw the wights and captured one... I saw them with something like a sled... But then, it disappeared... I don't understand... It was covered... Any points about that? On the 5th or 6th minute, when Joar Mormont and Jon are talking, you can see in the back that 2 of them are carrying?if I can say it like that? a sled... 

Plus The hound has a bag... What 's in there?? Food? 

Sure, yeah, you can say it like that.

My guess is that the sled was what they intended to use to transport the wight back to Eastwatch after they captured it.

Now, the bag, I THINK I saw them put that over the wight's head at some point, probably so it couldn't see what was going on around it and to make it harder for it to bite Jon & Company.

[Cron]

7 minutes ago, Amris said:

We know that he ran way more than 26 miles. We know that because the group had approached the arrow-head mountain when he was sent. And that arrow-head mountain apparently cannot be seen from a 700 foot high wall of ice. So it has to be far, far away.

Very interesting.

Plus, of course, as I understand it the mountains are beyond the huge forest which is just north of the Wall.  When 706 began, the Wight Hunters were already into the mountainous area beyond the forest (and then they travelled even more).   So...how many miles is it to go through that forest?

I've checked some maps, but can't find a real close-up of that area.  I'm starting to think Gendry had to run AT LEAST 50 to 100 miles, though and maybe quite a bit more.  In sub-zero temperatures.  With no hat.

[ramla]

1 hour ago, Tagganaro said:

 

Yeah...I mean this is the only possible thing that makes the NK's actions make any sense- it was a trap the entire time to get a dragon.  I'm hoping the show somewhat explains it, but maybe the NK needed a dragon to get past the Wall?

The chain stuff is still really bothering me though...like they clearly didn't have the chains right on them or otherwise Jon would have gotten out of the water and they'd still be there...presumably he fell into water pretty close to where they revived Viserion from yet Jon got up and nobody was there implying they had to go somewhere to get the chains (as well as you see them moving once Drogon flies away).  

The NK is broken then. He should never be beaten. That would mean he sees the future in a clear enough way to the point he knew the dragon would fall into the water and to have chains on hand for it. Then he also knew he'd miss Drogon as he lifted off. Knew Jon would survive his brisk dip... knows everything.

[ramla]

1 hour ago, Being Daenerys Targaryen said:

One more thing... In Bran's spying, we see the ice is very white (hard) ... much more than when Jon&Co got there... What does it mean? Because the way they showed us the cracking when they got there is obviously to make us think about it... We see the dead are there and if it has been winter for a long time why would that place (icy ground) be so thin? That icy ground should have been Thicker... I don't KNOW! i'm so done with this show... The twists, the tricks, the ... I love it!!

LOL frustrated to the point of love! lol.
I think its because that scene was CG and the scene once the Mg7 got to the lake was built with concrete and meant to be filmed up close. D&D has simply decided, things are going to happen even if it doesn't add up.

[NickStark2494]

On 21.08.2017 at 4:50 AM, Cron said:

Mmmmm...pretty sure that to go from Eastwatch to Dragonstone and back, all by itself, is about a 1,000 mile round trip, maybe more.

And we don't even know how far north of Eastwatch and the Wall Jon & Company were when Dany saved them.

Did Gendry run a marathon (over 26 miles)? Two marathons back to back? Three? (Or was the Army of the Dead just lurking around a mile or two north of the wall?) Who knows?

Take a look at a map of Westeros.  Winterfell to King's Landing is 1,000 miles, one way.

It's much more than that. In the Season 1 finale we're told that King's Landing is 1000 leagues from the Wall. GRRM has said that 1 league in Westeros is 3 miles. So that's 3000 mile from King's Landing to the Wall.

What Jon says in Season 7 Episode 1 about Winterfell being 1000 miles from King's Landing is simply nonsense. It's much more than that, as Winterfell is nearly 3/4 of the way to the Wall from KL.

Dragonstone is right next to KL, maybe only 5 or 10 miles north of it, so whatever, it's about 3000 miles from where Dany is to the frozen lake, give or take.

It is simply absurd. Alan Taylor, the director, has confirmed that they were only on that rock for about 24 hours. Gendry makes it to Eastwatch at night, and we see Dany leave DS during the daytime, so that's clearly the next morning. That means that in about 12 hours, a raven flew 3000 miles. That's a speed of 250 miles per hour.

That's more than 5 times faster than ravens can actually fly.

As for Drogon, let's break this down. Dany leaves Dragonstone during the daytime. She arrives at the lake during daytime. When Jon returns to the Wall on Benjen's horse, it is still daytime, the sun is even slightly visible. Keep in mind that days are short. It's winter, and we're in the very far North.

So let's assume, being very generous to the show, that Dany leaves Dragonstone at 8:30 AM. Let's also assume that Jon returns to Eastwatch on the horse around 5 PM. It would take him a couple hours to make it there from the lake, so let's say he left the lake at 3 PM.

That means Dany made it from DS to the lake on her dragons in about 6 hours. That means she was flying at 500 miles per hour.

First of all, it is silly to think to dragons could fly that fast. That's the speed of a commercial airliner. Dragons are massive, but they only have wings, not jet engines.

But even if a dragon could fly at that speed, how on earth could Dany survive that ? She isn't fastened to Drogon in any way, so she'd fall off. Even if she managed to cling to him, she wouldn't be able to breathe at that speed. She'd be getting smashed in the face by winds that are stronger than the most powerful hurricanes. Breathing would be impossible, her eardrums would likely explode, and she'd fucking die.

The whole thing is utter nonsense.

[ramla]

38 minutes ago, Cron said:

Very interesting.

Plus, of course, as I understand it the mountains are beyond the huge forest which is just north of the Wall.  When 706 began, the Wight Hunters were already into the mountainous area beyond the forest (and then they travelled even more).   So...how many miles is it to go through that forest?

I've checked some maps, but can't find a real close-up of that area.  I'm starting to think Gendry had to run AT LEAST 50 to 100 miles, though and maybe quite a bit more.  In sub-zero temperatures.  With no hat.

And whats worse, if its according to the maps... They were beyond Castle black. A straight path up north from Eastwatch is hardhome and then the sea. So they had to have gone NW thru the forest to reach any mountains.

[Nic.]

I've never complained about the supposed teleportation since a show is supposed to be entertaining foremost, but that was pretty ridiculous and hard to ignore. 

[SuperMario]

Wrong thread 

[Nic.]

I guess the dragon pit scene will be 40 minutes or so of characters taking digs at one another..... 

[ramla]

BTW folks the directer speaks on the time and distance issues.... basically.

“We were aware that timing was getting a little hazy,” Taylor told Variety. “We’ve got Gendry running back, ravens flying a certain distance, dragons having to fly back a certain distance…In terms of the emotional experience, [Jon and company] sort of spent one dark night on the island in terms of storytelling moments. We tried to hedge it a little bit with the eternal twilight up there north of The Wall. I think there was some effort to fudge the timeline a little bit by not declaring exactly how long we were there. I think that worked for some people, for other people it didn’t. They seemed to be very concerned about how fast a raven can fly but there’s a thing called plausible impossibilities, which is what you try to achieve, rather than impossible plausibilities. So I think we were straining plausibility a little bit, but I hope the story’s momentum carries over some of that stuff.”
“It’s cool that the show is so important to so many people that it’s being scrutinized so thoroughly,” he continued. “If the show was struggling, I’d be worried about those concerns, but the show seems to be doing pretty well so it’s OK to have people with those concerns.”

http://variety.com/2017/tv/news/game-of-thrones-season-7-episode-6-beyond-the-wall-timeline-director-1202534403/

So basically this discussion is moot because they FUDGED the timeline. CTHU. And hopefully we wouldn't care.. wow

[Armand Gargalen]

1 hour ago, Cron said:

Interesting point.

Which means the ice would have frozen even faster than we would normally expect, and there would have been even less time available for Gendry's run, and the raven's flight to Dragonstone, and Dany's flight back with the dragons.

Exactly my point. My estimate is that in the vicinity of the NK and a few WW´s the freezing time would be an hour top, being extra generous.

[Being Daenerys Targaryen]

45 minutes ago, ramla said:

LOL frustrated to the point of love! lol.
I think its because that scene was CG and the scene once the Mg7 got to the lake was built with concrete and meant to be filmed up close. D&D has simply decided, things are going to happen even if it doesn't add up.

Yeah maybe ...

[Being Daenerys Targaryen]

35 minutes ago, ramla said:

BTW folks the directer speaks on the time and distance issues.... basically.

“We were aware that timing was getting a little hazy,” Taylor told Variety. “We’ve got Gendry running back, ravens flying a certain distance, dragons having to fly back a certain distance…In terms of the emotional experience, [Jon and company] sort of spent one dark night on the island in terms of storytelling moments. We tried to hedge it a little bit with the eternal twilight up there north of The Wall. I think there was some effort to fudge the timeline a little bit by not declaring exactly how long we were there. I think that worked for some people, for other people it didn’t. They seemed to be very concerned about how fast a raven can fly but there’s a thing called plausible impossibilities, which is what you try to achieve, rather than impossible plausibilities. So I think we were straining plausibility a little bit, but I hope the story’s momentum carries over some of that stuff.”
“It’s cool that the show is so important to so many people that it’s being scrutinized so thoroughly,” he continued. “If the show was struggling, I’d be worried about those concerns, but the show seems to be doing pretty well so it’s OK to have people with those concerns.”

http://variety.com/2017/tv/news/game-of-thrones-season-7-episode-6-beyond-the-wall-timeline-director-1202534403/

So basically this discussion is moot because they FUDGED the timeline. CTHU. And hopefully we wouldn't care.. wow

Interesting 

[GreenSeeress]

So much of what we see as plot holes and discontinuities are the result of the producers/HBO deciding to end the show after 8 seasons, which is compounded by the decision to make seasons 7 and 8 w/ fewer (albeit slightly longer) episodes. It made sense, in the early years of the series, to make one season roughly equivalent to one book. The books were smaller and each one covered a relatively distinct time period. But once the show passed the books, why artificially limit the duration of the show?

The show has eliminated many storylines that existed as of the end of book 5, and yet is having trouble winding the remaining ones in 8 seasons. GRRM can make books 6 and 7 a thousand pages or more if he wants. Why did the decision to truncate the series in a way that almost inevitably results in these discontinuities? 

[Cron]

1 hour ago, NickStark2494 said:

It's much more than that. In the Season 1 finale we're told that King's Landing is 1000 leagues from the Wall. GRRM has said that 1 league in Westeros is 3 miles. So that's 3000 mile from King's Landing to the Wall.

What Jon says in Season 7 Episode 1 about Winterfell being 1000 miles from King's Landing is simply nonsense. It's much more than that, as Winterfell is nearly 3/4 of the way to the Wall from KL.

Dragonstone is right next to KL, maybe only 5 or 10 miles north of it, so whatever, it's about 3000 miles from where Dany is to the frozen lake, give or take.

It is simply absurd. Alan Taylor, the director, has confirmed that they were only on that rock for about 24 hours. Gendry makes it to Eastwatch at night, and we see Dany leave DS during the daytime, so that's clearly the next morning. That means that in about 12 hours, a raven flew 3000 miles. That's a speed of 250 miles per hour.

That's more than 5 times faster than ravens can actually fly.

As for Drogon, let's break this down. Dany leaves Dragonstone during the daytime. She arrives at the lake during daytime. When Jon returns to the Wall on Benjen's horse, it is still daytime, the sun is even slightly visible. Keep in mind that days are short. It's winter, and we're in the very far North.

So let's assume, being very generous to the show, that Dany leaves Dragonstone at 8:30 AM. Let's also assume that Jon returns to Eastwatch on the horse around 5 PM. It would take him a couple hours to make it there from the lake, so let's say he left the lake at 3 PM.

That means Dany made it from DS to the lake on her dragons in about 6 hours. That means she was flying at 500 miles per hour.

First of all, it is silly to think to dragons could fly that fast. That's the speed of a commercial airliner. Dragons are massive, but they only have wings, not jet engines.

But even if a dragon could fly at that speed, how on earth could Dany survive that ? She isn't fastened to Drogon in any way, so she'd fall off. Even if she managed to cling to him, she wouldn't be able to breathe at that speed. She'd be getting smashed in the face by winds that are stronger than the most powerful hurricanes. Breathing would be impossible, her eardrums would likely explode, and she'd fucking die.

The whole thing is utter nonsense.

HARR!!!

Great stuff, and let's not forget the COLD for Dany.  If Drogon is flying at 500 mph in sub-zero weather, what would the effective wind chill be for Dany?  100 below fahrenheit?  Worse?  Maybe a LOT worse???

And she didn't even bother to wear a hat, either, just like the Wight Hunters!!!!

[Wildling Queen]

2 hours ago, Cron said:

Interesting.

Very interesting.

But, I guess I thought Val IS the Wildling Queen now, as the only known surviving relative of Mance Rayder.

Or did I get confused?  Did Dalla die? (The child is still alive, with Sam, but like I said above, I'm thinking of "known" surviving relatives of Mance, and I don't think the whereabouts of Mance's son are widely known)

Far as I'm concerned, Val is perfect for Jon Snow, much better than Dany (for Jon, that is)

Yes, Dalla died during the battle between the wildlings and Stannis when Jon had gone across the Wall to talk to Mance Rayder and Stannis' army came. Stannis refers to Dalla's sister, Val, as the "wildling princess" after that. I'm not much of a princess, so I decided on The Wildling Queen.

[Cron]

1 hour ago, ramla said:

And whats worse, if its according to the maps... They were beyond Castle black. A straight path up north from Eastwatch is hardhome and then the sea. So they had to have gone NW thru the forest to reach any mountains.

EXCELLENT point.

Yes, you're right, the land goes north and west there.

My GOODNESS, this means to get into the mountain areas the Wight Hunters likely had to walk AT LEAST 200 miles on foot, and maybe a LOT more.

And Gendry ran that entire distance back!  In sub-zero temperatures!  Without a HAT!

This is becoming absolutely mind-bending!

[Armand Gargalen]

1 hour ago, NickStark2494 said:

That means Dany made it from DS to the lake on her dragons in about 6 hours. That means she was flying at 500 miles per hour.

First of all, it is silly to think to dragons could fly that fast. That's the speed of a commercial airliner. Dragons are massive, but they only have wings, not jet engines.

But even if a dragon could fly at that speed, how on earth could Dany survive that ? She isn't fastened to Drogon in any way, so she'd fall off. Even if she managed to cling to him, she wouldn't be able to breathe at that speed. She'd be getting smashed in the face by winds that are stronger than the most powerful hurricanes. Breathing would be impossible, her eardrums would likely explode, and she'd fucking die.

The whole thing is utter nonsense.

I could not stop picturing that in my mind. Hilarious

[Cron]

2 minutes ago, Wildling Queen said:

Yes, Dalla died during the battle between the wildlings and Stannis when Jon had gone across the Wall to talk to Mance Rayder and Stannis' army came. Stannis refers to Dalla's sister, Val, as the "wildling princess" after that. I'm not much of a princess, so I decided on The Wildling Queen.

Good stuff.

I like "Wildling Queen"!

But I think Stannis was flat out wrong.

Or maybe that was BEFORE he thought he burned Mance? (Who was really Rattleshirt)

Once Mance was apparently burned, though, I think that would make Val the Wildling Queen.

[Armand Gargalen]

7 minutes ago, Cron said:

HARR!!!

Great stuff, and let's not forget the COLD for Dany.  If Drogon is flying at 500 mph in sub-zero weather, what would the effective wind chill be for Dany?  100 below fahrenheit?  Worse?  Maybe a LOT worse???

And she didn't even bother to wear a hat, either, just like the Wight Hunters!!!!

Hats are not cool. It is known