Jump to content

Okay, NOW Have We Seen The Most Wildly Unrealistic Thing Ever on GoT???


Cron

Recommended Posts

18 hours ago, sweetsunray said:

Totally agree the ice won't be stronger a few days after breaking than it was before.

NK has icing abilities. Giving him thawing abilities is euhm the opposite, no? What's next? The NK personally breathing fire and a non iced Drogon breathing ice? Regardless whether it's magic or simply production related, it's both bad writing, because the first goes against elemental logic, and the latter is just hoping for the best.

No worries. I tried and expected to enjoy the battle and hate WF plot. It ended up being the opposite.

When That coward was playing with the water he was meant to give to Ghost at Craster's... That water became ice within seconds because a WW was approaching... Assuming the WW were there even before dawn, then that icy ground should have become hard a long before Clegane threw that shit stone... Just thinking and saying... 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

19 hours ago, Lord Okra said:

Errr.

They called it stupid time and again.  Easy?

Was it easy?  I thought they had to be saved by a dragon.

Maybe the person was reffering to the capture... They didn't bring horses... They were expecting to catch one of +50 000 and go back to eastwatch skiing or what? That's the prior question... Then if they really thought it was possible (by walking or running), then, yes they thought it was easy.... Are you expecting a bunch of people taking one wight and make it back to eastwatch without any arms? So from the beginning they knew Dany would come?No. But then? That is a suicide!

Link to comment
Share on other sites

19 hours ago, sweetsunray said:

The weak ice scene with the wights dropping into the broken ice makes it look as if they drop straight to the bottom. But then Tormund is dragged by his feet towards a fishing hole by wights who pop up and bob up out of nowhere. Their swimming abilities are relative to the need of the scene's intent. We have to keep 1000s of wights from swarming the M7 so, we put them on an ice lake that's thin and wights can't cross. We can't have Dany swooping in to save them without them even having to fight the wights, so the ice lake freezes over again, but "naturally" not because the NK uses his icing trick. We can't have a fight with wights without giving a long scene of someone nearly dying, and they having swimming wights. Dragons melt the ice lake with their fire, but next shot it's solid again with wights coming to delay Jon's departure and missing his dragonride, and no dragon blasts the NK,not even accidentally (well that's very contained dragonfire). NK must get a dragon but must have a javelin for that, which he conveniently didn't use to kill the M7 stuck on the island, but never stopped the wights from trying to kill them once the lake had frozen over again. And there's absolutely no reason for the NK not going for Drogon first. The "but Viserion was breathing flames" argument is invalid, because we see Drogon breathing fire as well, while everyone's getting on it. If you're the NK would you go for the dragon everybody else is trying to escape with first or the one that's just flying around? You've got the biggest dragon + Kit + Dany and possibly every other hero who's gonna ruin his attempt at conquering humanity Westeros. There's no reconciling it, not even with "greenseer".

Yes, they would have needed to break the ice, drop the chains and someone had to put the chains around poor Viserion, and do a thorough job of it, to be able to pull it out. Could have been wights trapped at the bottom forever until their WW is killed or scuba WW. The whole image was wrong: big ass iron chains + ice breaking apart as if there hadn't been a big ass hole in the ice to begin with to get those chains in and around Viserion. To me that's like doing a scene in space and have environmental sound (duh, just no!) in what is vacuum.

Good.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

18 hours ago, Armand Gargalen said:

his theory does not hold any water. Once Gendry Maratheon reached Eastwatch and the raven was sent, there was no need to keep the M7 alive. He could have frozen the lake and captured them immediately, and the dragons would still be coming.

Ok If that was the case... Dany is coming but Jon&Co are now dead and are now wights... What would the NK do? Turn his back and go... It wouldn't make sense for him to keep waiting there... That would mean he knew Dany was coming. So The show runners are trying to give the WW another reason to sustain their waiting... Otherwise, it would be very Obvious...

 

18 hours ago, Cas Stark said:

It's worth a special note on plot contrivance.  That when the WW is killed ALL of the "scouting party" break up, except the convenient one for them to capture?  Alrighty then.

I can't believe people are even trying to defend this bad action flick level of plotting.

Very bad...

 

17 hours ago, Lord Okra said:

So they were going to run around until they found a cave (or better yet, one just pops up) while being run down by wights....then stop for 4 hours to secure the entrance and the wights were going to.....wait?????

That'd have been far worse than the lake just appearing in front of them.

Instead they chose that unkown terrain... Unless Bran told Jon with his raven that the NK was near that place... Because the message he recieved was telling him that the NK was marching near Eastwatch... I don't understand! I'm done!

 

18 hours ago, Armand Gargalen said:

So an ICE DEMON can not freeze a lake and has to patiently wait for it to do it naturally? I thought the show had established the WW´s brought the cold with them, and it is safe to assume that the leader, who happens to be a 8000 old magical creature, should have some magical powers, specially when a girl who spends just two years training with the Faceless Men can perfectly impersonate a Lord at his home home for two weeks.

Lord Cerwyn : The Boltons are defeated! The war is over! Winter is here! If the maesters are right, it should be the coldest winter in a thousand year... We should ride home, and wait out the coming storms

KiTN : The war is not over. And I promise you my friend, The true won't wait out the storm... He brings the storm...

Ok When Ghost was at Craster's, that coward played with the water and soon enought it became ice (clearly because a WW was coming to take the baby he left) . But at Hardhome when the NK showed his power off (maintaining eye contact with Jon Snow) the "sea" was still on fleek... Otherwise they couldn't go back to castleblack... So this show, is just a show in the end... 

15 hours ago, Illiterati said:

I think a good solution would have been for Bran to have a Raven sent to Dragonstone.

I also thought about that... Because when Bran wraged into the ravens from WF to that lake in episode 5, they did a pretty good Job... It didn't take too much time... 

 

16 hours ago, Illiterati said:

Funny you say that, because watching the episode live, when Jon told Dany to go without him, I thought, "Fly, you fools!"

I was like "OOH Jon! WHAT are you doing, stupid! Stop fighting! Go!! Get on that dragon, you fool! OOh! Jeez! Jon? JON! Orgh look at that! haha! :rolleyes:Tell me how are you going to escape that? Oufh ^_^they don't know he's still alive... *turn their backs* :wacko:OMG!! JON! I'm out! He's dead! Defenitely! Dead! :wub:Oh Uncle Benjen!"

Link to comment
Share on other sites

14 hours ago, darmody said:

That doesn't really cover the problem. They just so happen to encounter a group that has one odd zombie out? And that's a zombie they happen not to put down before Jon shatters the White? 

Unless the Night King deliberately set it up that way because he knew dragons were coming, it's awfully convenient. 

Interesting point... It was very simple and easy IMO... 

 

12 hours ago, Cron said:

Hey, that's actually an interesting issue.  Where were all the wight women??

I didn't see any.  Or did I miss them??

We saw some at Hardhome (certainly, the Night King resurrected some at the end, including the mother of those two kids, I believe)

When Dany arrives with Rhaegal, Viserion and Drogon, the Wights that are underwater have long hair... So maybe those were women.?I can't wait to see Summer, though... Can Bran wrag into wight SUmmer or wight Hodor?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

11 hours ago, SerJeremiahLouistark said:

Does anyone think Dany had that sweet Targ winter outfit in her closet or does she have tailors that can make a bad ass coat and gloves in 45 minutes?

Well? That episode was mind blowing at any points...

 

8 hours ago, Raksha 2014 said:

 

I think Sansa also said that she has not heard anything from Jon since he left Winterfell - which seems to me the height of stupidity on Jon's part.  I'm surprised there aren't five or six Stark bannermen and Littlefinger banging on Sansa's door with demands that she marry one of them and make him King of the North, since Jon must be dead or oblivious to the North's needs.  

 

Jon could have easily sent a raven as a response... Because he recieved a raven but he could have easily answer and say he is well, he is glad Bran and Arya are back... He would be back as soon as he can... Keep the north in one piece little sister. I trust you... That's it! But as he's a complete fool, he cannot think of doing something like that...

Link to comment
Share on other sites

The show has been in decline since they passed the books. Now, the cracks are really starting to show and I feel like the show is collapsing under its own weight. The show has been playing fast and loose with time/travel for a few seasons now but the last episode really over did it. The reduced episode order is really hurting this season, as there's so much to cover but less time to do so. As a consequence we get ridiculous short cuts and plots holes (where did the wights get the chains to pull Viserion out of the water?) that weren't really present in the earlier seasons (1-4).

Link to comment
Share on other sites

33 minutes ago, The DragonKnight said:

The show has been in decline since they passed the books. Now, the cracks are really starting to show and I feel like the show is collapsing under its own weight. The show has been playing fast and loose with time/travel for a few seasons now but the last episode really over did it. The reduced episode order is really hurting this season, as there's so much to cover but less time to do so. As a consequence we get ridiculous short cuts and plots holes (where did the wights get the chains to pull Viserion out of the water?) that weren't really present in the earlier seasons (1-4).

Yeah ... The show was good from season 1 to season 5... Season 6 it started changing... and this season is just too much

Link to comment
Share on other sites

14 hours ago, Ser Gareth said:

I am not saying that D&D have done a grand job.  My beef is with the people who slam them at every opportunity and refuse to accept that GRRM is as much, if not more, to blame.  He let HBO down on his end of the bargain.  If the show has gone off the rails from its earlier days its because in its earlier days it had quality source material to draw from and the assumption when they purchased the rights was that they'd have quality source material all the way through.

GRRM is not to blame at all for the decline in the quality of the show.  He is just responsible for his own work.

And showrunners are called so for a reason. It is their responsibility and their job to run the show. Therefore, all criticism should rightly be addressed at them and only them 

13 hours ago, Yoren Luck said:

The drop-off in quality from book monologue to show monologue is immense and there is no reason for it.  GRRM literally wrote the scene for them.  They even named the damn episode 'The Broken Man' but failed to use the term in Brother Ray's speech.  I'm sorry but this is one of a hundred such instances where the book dialogue is more impactful than the show dialogue.  Septon Meribald's speech talks of the human cost of war, the human experience of it, the futility of it.  It is an embodiment of "THE WHEEL" that we keep hearing needs to be broken by Dany.  Ray's speech just tells Sandor "hey dude, I also did bad things once but if you do good things now it helps you live with it"  You can't tell me Ian McShane couldn't have delivered the book monologue.  Dude is an Actor.  And then to add insult to injury, the f'ing guy gets killed like a minute later.  

 

Well said. 

13 hours ago, Darkstream said:

Oh good, so you agree that even though they are professional writers, getting paid a lot of money to write a story, they are unable to do so competently unless someone else actually writes it for them.

So true

11 hours ago, Lord Okra said:

I didn't read the book passages or most of your post.

I'm just sick to death of book fans bashing the show.

The show is the show and the books are the books.

Curiously enough, I quoted you regarding this issue and you have ignored me. Many people who never read the book also complain about the show. My brother, who has not read a single book for pleasure in his life, but enjoys good films and TV shows, can see the gaping plot holes and notice the decline of quality. Because the show, as a standalone piece of TV, is going downhill.

10 hours ago, Lord Okra said:

Sure it can.

But not by saying we needed a chain backstory or that Sansa was the mean one (books only basically) or that it is 2500 miles to Dragonstone.....

You have to be bringing book crap to the show in order to make these kinds of complaints because.....in show, the giants are seen with iron/steel and it is never stated that the wildlings can't make crappy iron chains.....and you never see Sansa really being mean to Arya in show......and you never hear about it being 2500 miles to Dragonstone in show.....nope it is portrayed as half that......

Bringing book stuff in to complain about the show.....it is all around us.

You don´t need to bring "book crap" to see the plot holes. As I said, just watching show the show carefully and critically can lead you to the same conclusions.

6 hours ago, Darkstream said:

Well you know what I'm sick of?

I'm sick of show defenders constantly coming to a forum designed for the sole purpose of discussing a book/TV program, and bitching and whining about others who have a differing opinion than them.

I'm sick of people coming here and constantly repeating the same old lame ass straw man arguments in defence of the show. Yeah, it's true that in comparison to the books, the show is inferior in every way except for having a visual aspect. But it's also true that the show is, from a purely writing aspect, and judged as a stand alone production, complete and utter garbage; Absolutely riddled with plot holes,  inconsistencies, implausible scenarios, contrived circumstances, awfully crude dude-bro dialogue, Deus ex machina, and clichéd and predictable outcomes.

100% agree. A good TV show MUST have good visuals, good acting and good writing. That is why it is a difficult media. If the showrunners are not up for the task, they should give it up.

5 hours ago, Ser Gareth said:

Depends on their remit really.  If their remit is to make their employer and themselves a load of money then they are doing something right.  If their remit was to create high art then they wouldn't have touched ASOIAF in the first place.

Yes, they shouldn´t. The same way a training cook should not try to cook a master chef level dish.

5 hours ago, Ser Gareth said:

A lot of book purists don't like the show.  I get that.  But most people who watch the show aren't book purists.  There are comparatively very few book purists.  The book purists may not be entertained but millions of others around the world are.

I know the book purists like to try and be intellectually superior.  I first read AGOT in 1998 and whilst I liked the early seasons of the show (mainly for bringing the tale to a wider audience) I wasn't keen on the adaptation.  But even though I wasn't keen on it I was never arrogant (like calling TV viewers Unsullied or lording over them that I knew more than they did) and I completely understand that you simply cannot accurately transpose a book to TV and people be interested.  TV and movie plots have to be far more in your face and aggressive than books.

What really yanks my chain more than anything is the sheer hypocrisy displayed and that's what I rail against.  The Battle of Blackwater episode is the prime example of this.  Many people on this forum rate it as their best ever episode for one reason and one reason only.  GRRM wrote it.  Had D&D wrote it exactly the same as GRRM had?  Those same people would nit pick against it or call it an awful episode.  Ironically for me was the moment that drove home that the TV show will never get anywhere near as good as the books.  I thought it was a poorly done episode and GRRM was the one who had wrote it.  The awful dialogue dick swinging between Bronn and the Hound was as bad as anything that we've seen in the entire series.  Stannis personally storming the walls displaying massive emotional ego was also really jarring for me and nothing like his book character.  At that point I realised the constraints and that even GRRM had to "sex" up characters to make them more appealing for TV.

The show is far from perfect.  It's great entertainment but it's not intriguing story telling anymore.  But then as we're near the end of the story, it shouldn't be intriguing anymore anyway.  It should be action.  The people I know (including my wife) who haven't read the books don't care about logistics or gaps in logic.  They're still at the edge of their seats with excitement.  They're entertained.  And as the primary purpose for the show is to entertain?  I'd say the show runners are doing a very good job.

As I said, not only book purists who try to look intellectually superior criticize the show. Critical watching will take you to the same place.

I loved "Blackwater", it is one of my favourite episodes. GRRM is a person who wrote TV scripts before, so he is perfectly aware that TV and books are different media and require different approaches. The last scene, with Cersei and Tommen at the Throne Room, which does not appear in the books, is a masterpiece.

What it comes to prove that the problem is not deviating from the books, but doing it in a sloppy way.

56 minutes ago, Being Daenerys Targaryen said:

Ok If that was the case... Dany is coming but Jon&Co are now dead and are now wights... What would the NK do? Turn his back and go... It wouldn't make sense for him to keep waiting there... That would mean he knew Dany was coming. So The show runners are trying to give the WW another reason to sustain their waiting... Otherwise, it would be very Obvious...

I am not getting you point or you misunderstood my proposed scenario:

 Daenerys has no way of knowing a living human being from a dead wight unless she is really close to the ground. 

Therefore, once Gendry is at Eastwatch, the NK could easily freeze the lake and order the wights to attack while he and his WW buddies throw ice spears from a massive distance. Once the M7 are rightly dead, he can wightfy them and, when Danerys is approaching, set up a mummer´s show of them fighting the wights. 

The only reason I can think he would not do it is that he knows Jon is an utter moron and he would rather have him than Sansa or some other person ruling the North when he invades.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

11 minutes ago, Armand Gargalen said:

I am not getting you point or you misunderstood my proposed scenario:

 Daenerys has no way of knowing a living human being from a dead wight unless she is really close to the ground. 

Therefore, once Gendry is at Eastwatch, the NK could easily freeze the lake and order the wights to attack while he and his WW buddies throw ice spears from a massive distance. Once the M7 are rightly dead, he can wightfy them and, when Danerys is approaching, set up a mummer´s show of them fighting the wights. 

The only reason I can think he would not do it is that he knows Jon is an utter moron and he would rather have him than Sansa or some other person ruling the North when he invades.

ok

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Just now, Being Daenerys Targaryen said:

ok

This plan might look a bit contrived, but he is all knowing and has power to freeze stuff and control the dead, which has already been established, is doable.

When you are writing a story you should always look at alternative scenarios to the one you are proposing and mentally check if they make more sense than the one you are proposing. If there are any, no matter how much you like how the scene looks in your mind, you should discard it. It is clear the showrunners have not being doing this for a long time, if ever.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

On 8/20/2017 at 10:30 PM, Cron said:

You think you've seen teleporting?  

You think you've seen jetpacking?

Don't make me laugh.

706 just upped the ante to a whole new level, never even imagined before, I think.

While Jon & Company are confronting the Army of the Dead, Gendry is sent to run back to Eastwatch, where a raven is sent to Dany on Dragonstone, then Dany hops on a dragon, and flies all the way back and makes it in time to save the expedition to capture a wight???

Face it, friends.  Reasonable continuity in terms of travel through time and space is out the window.

Completely out the window.

Yes, it's abundantly clear now that the show has said 'fuck it' with constraints of time/space vs. plot. I'm pretty sure it's necessary due to the relatively low amount of screen-time they have left to wrap up the story. I'm okay with this because it's still fun to watch and it makes me want to read the last two books even more (please George, please!).

What i find more infuriating is the people on other forums who reply to people complaining about the violations of space/time with comments like "you suspend disbelief for dragons and shadow assassins, but you can't believe that Gendry/raven/dragon can save them in time." These people just don't get it.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, Being Daenerys Targaryen said:

Interesting point... It was very simple and easy IMO... 

 

When Dany arrives with Rhaegal, Viserion and Drogon, the Wights that are underwater have long hair... So maybe those were women.?I can't wait to see Summer, though... Can Bran wrag into wight SUmmer or wight Hodor?

I didn't notice that.  Good catch.

And oh, wow, I never thought about a wight Summer and a wight Hodor.

I wonder if those things will actually be shown??

Link to comment
Share on other sites

18 minutes ago, Ser Hyle said:

Yes, it's abundantly clear now that the show has said 'fuck it' with constraints of time/space vs. plot. I'm pretty sure it's necessary due to the relatively low amount of screen-time they have left to wrap up the story. I'm okay with this because it's still fun to watch and it makes me want to read the last two books even more (please George, please!).

What i find more infuriating is the people on other forums who reply to people complaining about the violations of space/time with comments like "you suspend disbelief for dragons and shadow assassins, but you can't believe that Gendry/raven/dragon can save them in time." These people just don't get it.

Well, I personally agree with nearly everything you wrote (except the part about what we are seeing being "necessary."  Actually, with VERY minor changes in the script, a LOT of this could have been avoided), but each person has their own threshold for what is or is not acceptable in terms of "realism."

Again, I personally agree with you (which is why I started this topic thread), but some people just don't care.  I like action movies, but if the "action" becomes completely absurd, blatantly violating numerous laws of physics and probabilities, I've got a problem with it.

Still, though, overall I've liked this season a lot.  Hopefully it will end with a STRONG episode on Sunday, to hold us all over during the long wait until the series finale (which I'm now hearing is going to be in 2019)

Link to comment
Share on other sites

3 hours ago, Being Daenerys Targaryen said:

Were they scared? They just didn't want to fall... But if you watch it again, the wight that attacked The Hound came out of the water (because Clegane broke the ice to get rid of him). But that wight came out and caught Tormund's leg... So I assume they can swim...

some can, others not, I guess...others are scuba divers

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Silly question, but am I the only one who feels a bit guilty complaining about the dumb plot holes?  I mean, I really love the visual feast that GoT has always been and truly appreciate the production team's hard work and creativity, but the fucking dumb moments are so disappointing that I just have to let it out and complain.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Archived

This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.

×
×
  • Create New...