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Okay, NOW Have We Seen The Most Wildly Unrealistic Thing Ever on GoT???


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1 hour ago, Lord Okra said:

I didn't read your post.  I didn't respond to you at all.  What makes you think I conveniently left out anything?

I was responding to the other poster's comment.

I didn't even know you were complaining that they didn't establish frozen lakes in the past.  Now I'm just laughing at that.  That is funny.

Frozen lakes aren't established beforehand?  Strong, strong stuff there.  I'm outraged I tell ya!!!!!

lmao

What the hell are you talking about? Are you Lancerman?

And I wasn't complaining about that. Try paying attention, this isn't Got, where you need to actively not pay attention for anything to make sense.

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1 hour ago, lancerman said:

It's not newly introduced into the season or episode. It's new addition to the story. You are changing the definition because to you deus ex machina is a buzz word you don't understand besides being a storytelling critique. 

 

By your logic, the Battle of Blackwater was resolved by a deus ex machina. 

Right, I'm using what's stated in the definition to define the phrase, your the one making shit up and claiming that what you say is the true definition.

Again, point to where the definition says , "Deus ex machina is literally meant to invoke a god mechanism that is completely inserted into the story without any way to know it exists." 

Get over yourself, you don't get to dictate what something means.

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21 minutes ago, lancerman said:

It's not newly introduced into the season or episode. It's new addition to the story. You are changing the definition because to you deus ex machina is a buzz word you don't understand besides being a storytelling critique. 

 

By your logic, the Battle of Blackwater was resolved by a deus ex machina. 

In s7 all happy coincidences are brought to some absurd level. That's why it is so annoying. In the Battle of Blackwater Tyron planned things ahead, the wildfire worked well. But the defense of the city walls didn't work so well. But Tywin arrived on time, so Lannisters got the advantage. This was believable. If Tyrion's plan had fallen apart from the beginning and Tywin just arrived to save the day, it would have been unbelievable.

But in the e7 everything was a happy coincidence: everyone traveled with a speed of light, timing was perfect, lake didn't froze, uncle Benjen showed up in the right moment etc. It would be a Hollywood cliche and i would forgive any other show for that because fiction. But GoT was different and this sudden change is very disappointing.

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5 hours ago, Maid So Fair said:

From the names characters being given +90% wight resistance armour, to a conveniently placed island in the middle of a conveniently thin ice that appears at the most convenient moment

Don't forget that, thanks to Bran's unkindness of ravens, we had already seen that little island on the frozen lake.  

The NK and his boys were on the island while the massive army of the undead were marching across the frozen lake. 

I guess the ice was worn thin by the marching zombies.  

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13 minutes ago, Darkstream said:

Really, so Tywin had no way of knowing that KL needed his support, or where it was?

I guess he did. Because Tywin and Tyrion were in contact and Stannis attacking KL was a matter of time.

I give you another example. Imagine Robb would have learnt that Ned is in prison and would have summoned his vassals, gathered an army in no time, marched to KL and reached it, sacked it with zero resistance (only killed enemy soldiers showed) and leaped from the crowd to Baelor stairs at the moment when Ilyn Payne was about to behead Ned, killed all the king's guard and saved the day. 

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2 minutes ago, Ashes Of Westeros said:

I guess he did. Because Tywin and Tyrion were in contact and Stannis attacking KL was a matter of time.

Yes, and Cercei also sent him a letter commanding him to return to KL.

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1 hour ago, Darkstream said:

Right, I'm using what's stated in the definition to define the phrase, your the one making shit up and claiming that what you say is the true definition.

Again, point to where the definition says , "Deus ex machina is literally meant to invoke a god mechanism that is completely inserted into the story without any way to know it exists." 

Get over yourself, you don't get to dictate what something means.

Yeah but the difference I know what it means and you don't. You are blatantly disregarding the key qualifier in the definition so you can use the other pieces to construct a new definition, either that or you have poor reading skills. 

It's a new element that is not compatible with previously established events or knowledge or rules of the narrative to resolve a conflict. 

You are trying to change what the story mechanism is so you can apply the critique to it. It's black and white, not grey. Maybe you should get over yourself because you are arguing about something you are blatantly wrong about. 

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Just now, lancerman said:

Yeah but the difference I know what it means and you don't. It's a new element that is not compatible with previously established events or knowledge or rules of the narrative to resolve a conflict. 

You are trying to change what the story mechanism is so you can apply the critique to it. It's black and white, not grey. Maybe you should get over yourself because you are arguing about something you are blatantly wrong about. 

Sure pal, and maybe you should stop telling me what I'm doing. It's quite arrogant, and completely false.

And I'm so sorry for questioning the all knowing Lancerman, who cant back up his argument with anything but, because I said so.

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43 minutes ago, Darkstream said:

Really, so Tywin had no way of knowing that KL needed his support, or where it was?

Completely missing the point. Until the very moment where the tide of the battle is turned and King's Landing is saved, there was no knowledge that the Tyrell's had joined Tywin and added their strength to the Lannister's to win the battle. 

It was a completely knew and unexpected development that resolved the conflict. By the way you choose to incorrectly apply the definition to the Benjen case it is a deus ex machina. 

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7 minutes ago, lancerman said:

Completely missing the point. Until the very moment where the tide of the battle is turned and King's Landing is saved, there was no knowledge that the Tyrell's had joined Tywin and added their strength to the Lannister's to win the battle. 

It was a completely knew and unexpected development that resolved the conflict. By the way you choose to incorrectly apply the definition to the Benjen case it is a deus ex machina. 

Too bad that's not how I defined Benjin's case.

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9 minutes ago, Darkstream said:

Sure pal, and maybe you should stop telling me what I'm doing. It's quite arrogant, and completely false.

And I'm so sorry for questioning the all knowing Lancerman, who cant back up his argument with anything but, because I said so.

Maybe you should learn to not to vigorously argue a point by supplying a definition where you pick and choose what key elements of the definition you want to say matter. 

Maybe then you wouldn't get sensitive when you get called out on either not understanding the definition or being misleading so you can attempt to win this argument. At this point it's one or the other and there is no getting around it. 

Sorry there's really no other way to say it. Either you don't know what a deus ex machina is or you do and you are ignoring part of what makes it up. You would have been perfectly served dropping it and saying you didn't like all the coincidences. But now here we are because you are too proud to admit you didn't know what it meant. 

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9 hours ago, Verily said:

Going by time shown on screen it's morning when Jon and company leave Eastwatch, and it's starting to get dark when Gendry returns. Given the pace they move, time it takes to battle zombie bear, and time to plan an ambush for the Wight party, which appears to be moving in a direction towards the wall, it is plausible that Gendry could run to Eastwatch in time.

But because there is no definitive mention of actual distances and time, it becomes a guessing game. With what was shown in the episode it is more likely that they travelled around 10-30 miles from the wall. 

That doesn't take into account how far Gendry is shown running before he can see the Wall. That thing is fricken huge. Hundreds of feet tall. You should be able to see it from many, many miles away. 

That being said, even 10 miles is probably too much to ask. Running across the frozen tundra, in the unforgiving Real North where there are such things as zombie bears. Where you could fall into a thousand-foot crevasse if you don't step right. You have Gendry, who's never seen snow let alone been North of the Wall. He doesn't even have a hat or snowshoes. He has to run miles back, mostly in the dark, from memory. 

That's right, he doesn't have a map or tracking/camping skills we know about. All that distance the group was shown marching, he has to retrace. Hope he was paying attention! Did they leave breadcrumbs? I would expect him to start running in circles, if he lived long enough.

Plus, good for him if he's in good shape and a good runner. But he hasn't trained to run in the wild in subzero temperatures. That's really hard, and not for the uninitiated. Casual comments along the lines of, "Oh, it was *only* 30 miles" are unappreciative of the difficulty involved. 

All of which wouldn't be that much of a concern, because there's so much else to criticize. But it's just one more weak link in a storytelling chain that's nothing but weak links. 

I'm mostly annoyed that the show didn't think it was that big a deal. They squeezed a little bit of drama out of it, and I'm sure Gendry was congratulated for helping save the day. But forget about it being an Olympic-level feat. That was a superhuman, Herculean task. Gendry should be hailed as one of the most impressive men alive. 

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No doubt people have made this joke, but I just got back from out of town and made a point to not watch the episode until I was home (today). Immediately, IMMEDIATELY, when Gendry took off, I thought "Oh shit. He's gonna still be running for the next 7 episodes."

Also, as a tv fan I love how every episode makes sure you feel something significant and keeps you on the edge of your seat by hurtling through things with breakneck speed. And as a book reader I fucking hate blasting through story without the real feelings/understanding that comes from things like, you know, good dialogue and storytelling. Ha.

 

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8 hours ago, Lord Okra said:

They aren't going to do multiple shots from the wall for you.

You have to let it go man.  They reuse sets and they reuse footage they've already made for previous seasons.  That's the way a tv show works due to budget and time constraints.

Complaining about it is just unwarranted.

No one's complaining about reusing footage, in this instance. The argument is about whether there's a big forest in front of Eastwatch that the Snowicide Squad would've had to march through to get to the frozen lake area.

If your argument is that we can't assume there is supposed to be a forest there because the show reuses CGI without thinking, fine. You could actually present some evidence to that end.

In any case, don't pretend that's what people are complaining about. They're complaining about the unrealistic distances in the last episode, not the supposed re-use of effects shots. 

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