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Okay, NOW Have We Seen The Most Wildly Unrealistic Thing Ever on GoT???

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On 8/21/2017 at 4:56 AM, Forlong the Fat said:

If we're getting all realistic: dragons not only could, but must, fly greatly in excess of 100 mph to stay aloft.

I admit I haven't looked through 24 pages yet for a response but... wat?

Every time I think about this it makes less sense.

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12 hours ago, ramla said:

Maybe you know about writing or maybe you don't but, in Writing... the best stories, even fantasy are entrenched in some sort of realism. Just because u have dragons doesn't mean they can behave outside the established norms of that world. If in the first episode of the show, its established that it took a month for king Robert and his family to travel north to winterfell... Doesn't mean the same distance can now be traversed on foot in hours or a day...

That's even why people liked Game of Thrones... One of the D&D said in season 2 that GRRM put Fantasy in a different level... People in real life can easily relate to their stories... And it is very realistic... I think The actor who plays Tyrion (Dinklange) said that it is not fantasy based on real life but it's more real life based on fantasy... 

This is one D :

"I think for the first time D and I read GRRM books we knew he had taken fantasy to a different place that it had never been before, and a too more realistic place... The characters don't feel like they are locked in the eternal struggle of good and evil. If you are good people who happen to live in a world that's not our world...Where magic still exist..."

We agreed on watching the show with Bran warging...Messing up Hodor ... Dragons... Incest... Fireproof... Undead... White walkers... But not teleportations... No... This is not Dragon Ball Z with Sangoku 

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11 hours ago, Lord Okra said:

While I feel you it, what you are asking for is not necessary.

I watched the show with 4 other very casuals and not one complained about teleporting or anything like it.

Why not?  Because it would be a uber petty complaint.  They understand......time passes between scenes....an undisclosed amount of time passes between these scenes.  They learned this by watching the rest of the series.

We are way, way past having to cue the audience in that so much time has passed.  That's the kind of stuff you do in the early seasons to establish distances/timeframes.....diminishing as the seasons pass by and the viewer has come to understand that time passes between scenes.

A day or two or three passed.  That's all one has to understand.  They don't need to tell us.  We aren't little kids watching Spongebob Squarepants so it isn't needed.

This is just petty fussing that never ends on these forums by supposed fans of the series.

It is no different than the complaints we got after the previous episode where people complained about only 7 people going beyond the wall.  Oh, hardy dar......it is just the Mag Seven going beyond the wall.....so unrealistic......until the next episode establishes that they brought along another 6-8 dudes to haul stuff........but why didn't they show them!!!!!! Why???? Huh????? Cause they suck!!!!!

No, because they took a cinematography class and know how to produce a "shot" for dramatic effect.........so the closed with a cool shot of our heroes walking out from the wall.

Eff that explanation.....I want to be whinging about D&D!!!!!   They shoulda showed it......screw proper tv shots and dramatic effect.

The problem is not only the time... But the consequences it would have had on people... I understand Time passed... But if so, they would have starved to death or freeze to death... Instead, their were just there, standing, not moving with no fire (unless we assume that they used the Lord of Light sword with fire) and seemingly, no food (I do recall having seen Clegane and Thoros and Jon with bags on their back... Maybe it was the food...) . 

Plus Jon was pushed in the water (very cold water) and was able to make it to eastwatch? 

Personnally, I don't mind... I try not to focus on that because they are so many more interesting things and hints to discuss about... But I have to admit that it doesn't make sense... Unless the NK was behind it... The night king was there and they were sleeping... If he brings the storm then the icy ground would have become harder a long time ago!! And he would have killed Jon&Co way before!! But he just sat there watching them from the hill... He was waiting for something... Viserion...  

But really, that's not the problem... Time passes, yes! But if time does pass, then they should have died freezing...

I don't care about Gendry... Gendry was moving... Tormund said it himself... "You need to keep moving" So Gendry was running, then he kind of could keep himself from freezing... But the rest of them were there..; Standing on a icy ground for hours?days? we don't know... Not that important...

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20 hours ago, Cron said:

Do you have the technical/computer skills to actually make this video happen??

No, though my hobby is drawing comics and such, I'm still learning digital art.

Plus you'd need an animator for that.

Edited by plastic throne

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28 minutes ago, Being Daenerys Targaryen said:

The problem is not only the time... But the consequences it would have had on people... I understand Time passed... But if so, they would have starved to death or freeze to death... Instead, their were just there, standing, not moving with no fire (unless we assume that they used the Lord of Light sword with fire) and seemingly, no food (I do recall having seen Clegane and Thoros and Jon with bags on their back... Maybe it was the food...) . 

Plus Jon was pushed in the water (very cold water) and was able to make it to eastwatch? 

Personnally, I don't mind... I try not to focus on that because they are so many more interesting things and hints to discuss about... But I have to admit that it doesn't make sense... Unless the NK was behind it... The night king was there and they were sleeping... If he brings the storm then the icy ground would have become harder a long time ago!! And he would have killed Jon&Co way before!! But he just sat there watching them from the hill... He was waiting for something... Viserion...  

But really, that's not the problem... Time passes, yes! But if time does pass, then they should have died freezing...

I don't care about Gendry... Gendry was moving... Tormund said it himself... "You need to keep moving" So Gendry was running, then he kind of could keep himself from freezing... But the rest of them were there..; Standing on a icy ground for hours?days? we don't know... Not that important...

Matter of opinion. For me it is important that the show at least stay grounded in some form of reality. Yes it has dragons and zombies but to all intents and purposes it follows the same laws of physics as our world.

So birds can't fly enormous distances in superhuman times, men can't run in arctic conditions as if they are doing a marathon, people can't survive in arctic conditions without shelter, they can't fight at full capacity afterwards either.

On their own maybe you could forgive these brain farts but when you add them all up it's really just exposing a huge laziness in the writing. I can't forgive that as easily as I have been able to do throughout this season 

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11 hours ago, Lord Okra said:

his is great because it is the fact that they jumped a month in time in the very first episode with a sentence to clarify it......they've conditioned the audience for 7 years to accept that time passes between scenes....sometimes a month or more passes even....

Yeah ... I even posted something about that... When Cersei said to Robert "We have been rinding for months, my love... surely the deads can wait"...

5 minutes before, Cersei was in KL and there she is!!! All good in WF... 

The deserter of the night's watch was found near WF... He run... He run... and after the opening, he was already near WF? Just like GENDRY! ho no Gendry was running on a very cold area... But still, that deserter needed 2 minutes to run south of the wall... Ned beheads him, goes back to winterfell, and oh a raven from KL? Jon arryn is dead... The king is coming... And oh! Bran's direwolf has grown! that FAST? HOW? NO WAY! Oh there is the King! Perhaps, the only difference here is that we had the wolf as proof that time passed... This time, there is nothing... 

The time doesn't bother me personally... But the "not freezing to death" or "not starving to death" that bothers me...

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11 hours ago, Meera of Tarth said:

-Did they really expect to find some wights peacefully  patrolling?

That was also a question for me... Seems like it was a trap or something... I mean why would a WW walking peacefully away from the others? And Why in the world was that Wight following him in life but not in death? He was behind marching like he was the master... But when the master dies, only that wight stays "alive"... It wouldn't be that easy would it? Unless the NK knew everthing since he can see bran, and was waiting for Dany to come with the dragons and get one... or two... It sounds crazy I know... But I don't see any other explaination... Coincidence? There are no Coincidences in Game Of Thrones... Everything was meant to happen...

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10 hours ago, Lord Okra said:

Until he is ready.  He could just be waiting for them to die.  He could be waiting for the ice to be refrozen.  Is he in a rush or something?  He's going to miss winter?  Maybe the answer is the simplest one and the one implied by the scene itself.....he was waiting for the lake to freeze back over.

 he brings the storm, right? Then when he got there, it should have been even colder... And we see him in the morning ... So maybe he was there even before Clegane woke up... Just looking at them? I think he was really waiting for the rescue... Perhaps not... 

Plus he could have used that spear and finish Jon&Co... Do you really really think he was waiting for the lake to freeze back? really? Ok. 

Remember it was Clegane who made the shitty wight notice that the ground was back to perfection mode... If he was waiting for it to freeze back, then he would have attacked them even before Clegane threw the stone... And I don't know but White Walkers in season 6 and 7 seem so weak! Compared to HardHome... 

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6 hours ago, Makk said:

I think there have much worse aspects of respecting the passage of time in the past. Years and years of travel time have passed and Gillys baby hasn't grown for instance.

And what has Benjen actually been doing since he disappeared and what was, presumably, his (final?) death. We know he helped Bran briefly, but what else?

Yeah... Guilly's baby is still a baby... Maybe he's 1 year old now? 

Plus when Benjen saved Bran he said "The Three-eyed raven sent me to you" Meera : The 3ER is dead.... Benjen : Now he lives again through Bran... So maybe Bran also sent Benjen to Jon... If the previous 3ER sent Benjen to Bran, why wouldn't the current one send him to Jon? Just saying... Maybe his purpose was to save his nephews...

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1 hour ago, Channel4s-JonSnow said:

Matter of opinion. For me it is important that the show at least stay grounded in some form of reality. Yes it has dragons and zombies but to all intents and purposes it follows the same laws of physics as our world.

So birds can't fly enormous distances in superhuman times, men can't run in arctic conditions as if they are doing a marathon, people can't survive in arctic conditions without shelter, they can't fight at full capacity afterwards either.

On their own maybe you could forgive these brain farts but when you add them all up it's really just exposing a huge laziness in the writing. I can't forgive that as easily as I have been able to do throughout this season 

Ok. But we saw Ravens flying from WF to That lake in Bran's "vision"... We don't know how much time they spent flying, but they got there before sunset... And then the night king saw them... So we can try to compare that situation with the raven sent from eastwatch to dragonstone...

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14 hours ago, Lord Okra said:

But the most unrealistic thing ever on GoT is not teleporting.

It's dragons.  Well, maybe it's being a fireproof princess that births dragons.

Nah, it is ice zombies.

 

Wait, so you are telling me an Ice Zombie King can not freeze a lake, neither sense whether such lake is already frozen to send his army? That´s a lame Ice Zombie King for sure.

11 hours ago, Lord Okra said:

Or maybe the freakin NK is an expert steel maker who can use black magic to make steel out of thin air.

 

Such a bizarre power for an Ice Zombie King who can not freeze water...

10 hours ago, Lord Okra said:

Not anywhere in the show.  Stick to the show.

I will stick to the show: it is inconsistently written.  Everything is subordinated to "cool moments" with no real substance before. That may make for good musical video clips, but this a TV show, and for a TV show to be good, it needs both the visual and the narrative elements to be good. GOT has been falling flat on the writing for a long time, so it is not a good show.

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59 minutes ago, Armand Gargalen said:

Wait, so you are telling me an Ice Zombie King can not freeze a lake, neither sense whether such lake is already frozen to send his army? That´s a lame Ice Zombie King for sure.

Don't forget that the show already told us that the mere presence of Walkers will freeze water.

Remember when that mutineer was taunting Ghost by pouring water on the ground... and then it froze in seconds?

 

Edited by Lurid Jester

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17 hours ago, darmody said:

I don't see what Gendry's run has to do with the logistics of telling *a* story spread over a large geographical area.

Admittedly, they need it in order to tell the specific story of a band of idiots marching out in the snowy wilderness to hunt for a zombie for no good reason, who require a man to run nobody knows how far in order to get a message to dragons thousands of miles away so that the band can be saved in the nick of time shortly after a lake refreezes sufficiently to carry the weight of a zombie army. 

But they don't need to tell that story, do they? The needs of a crappy story don't justify crappy means of telling. Logistical complications don't excuse the Gendry run in my mind any more than they would excuse crossing over the Flash from the CW to take Gendry's place.

How about we just don't tell the story that way, instead?

I agree that the whole capture a wight idea was silly. Sending the King in the North, the de-facto leader of the Wildlings, and others into such a dangerous area for a wight which is unlikely to help much if it even survives as far as the South is a totally absurd plan. But logistics are the least of the issues with this story.

I just don't think complaining about how long Gendry took to get back is a particularly good argument. If the show was to limit itself on such logistics then we might not have seen Casterly Rock or other locations simply because the timing didn't suit.

Complain about the story if you think it's a bad story, don't complain about nit-picky logistics (not saying you did personally, I'm making this point more generally).

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30 minutes ago, Lurid Jester said:

Don't forget that the show already told us that the mere presence of Walkers will freeze water.

Remember when that mutineer was taunting Ghost by pouring water on the ground... and then it froze in seconds?

 

That is the point, the show keeps ignoring its own lore when it suits the showrunners´ preconceived ideas of how a scene should look. 

That is why the "it is a fantasy series with dragons and ice zombies, can you just not suspend disbelief and enjoy" argument does not hold any water.  

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14 minutes ago, Armand Gargalen said:

That is the point, the show keeps ignoring its own lore when it suits the showrunners´ preconceived ideas of how a scene should look. 

That is why the "it is a fantasy series with dragons and ice zombies, can you just not suspend disbelief and enjoy" argument does not hold any water.  

Agreed.  They've abandoned any internal consistency. 

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17 hours ago, Lord Okra said:

People who subject themselves to stimuli that causes them to complain constantly have issues.

Seriously.

That's the world itself... should we all just die? smh... people endure things for all kinds of reasons. like, If im reading a book... love it but when I get 3/4ths thru, it starts to go into a bad direction, what are the odds that i simply put this book down!? Im already invested into the tale itself. So odds are I will finish it despite my disapproval of the story.

Same with GOT the TV show. Many people who've read the books, have been with this tale for like 20 years. Seeing the Dragons in action can satisfy them as well. I mean I get chills seeing the dragons personally. When Drogon burned the Lannisters, I felt bad cause I was cheering. LOL... Doesn't negate the plotholes. Which is why we come here.

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9 hours ago, Cron said:

Just bizarre.

I'll add it to my long Master List of things that don't seem to make sense regarding the Hunt for the Wight, starting with the moment Tyrion first proposed it at Dragonstone, and ending, I suppose, with Dany waiting at Eastwatch to see if Jon would show up rather than HOPPING ON A  DRAGON TO GO LOOK FOR HIM AND MAYBE HELP HIM.

Well, I have to say that this would not be a good idea, since one of the dragons had already died bc of the NK's javelin's abilities. And I thnk the other dragons would not want to go.

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5 hours ago, Being Daenerys Targaryen said:

That was also a question for me... Seems like it was a trap or something... I mean why would a WW walking peacefully away from the others? And Why in the world was that Wight following him in life but not in death? He was behind marching like he was the master... But when the master dies, only that wight stays "alive"... It wouldn't be that easy would it? Unless the NK knew everthing since he can see bran, and was waiting for Dany to come with the dragons and get one... or two... It sounds crazy I know... But I don't see any other explaination... Coincidence? There are no Coincidences in Game Of Thrones... Everything was meant to happen...

Good point, yes, I also found weird that just one of the wights stays alive.

As for the patrolling thing. Unless they saw the ravens and then they expected some people to come, maybe that would be reasonable. What I don't find as reasonable is that the squad thinks they would find just some wights (and maybe just one WW-easily to destrioy) in the middle of nowhere...

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5 hours ago, Being Daenerys Targaryen said:

The problem is not only the time... But the consequences it would have had on people... I understand Time passed... But if so, they would have starved to death or freeze to death... Instead, their were just there, standing, not moving with no fire (unless we assume that they used the Lord of Light sword with fire) and seemingly, no food (I do recall having seen Clegane and Thoros and Jon with bags on their back... Maybe it was the food...) . 

You can't starve to death in a week's time.  As far as freezing to death, people has survived on Mt. Everest for two days before.....in the death zone.  There is no reason to assume they'd freeze to death in 36 hours.  Could they? Sure they could.  Is it likely in sub artic clothing.....no.  After....4 or 5 days.....sure.  In 2 days, not likely.  If they were out there waiting for 3-4 days then freezing to death/food isn't an issue really.

5 hours ago, Being Daenerys Targaryen said:

Plus Jon was pushed in the water (very cold water) and was able to make it to eastwatch? 

This is a fair complaint.  Jon's "rescue" wasn't very plausible.  I'm fine with legit complaints. 

5 hours ago, Being Daenerys Targaryen said:

Personnally, I don't mind... I try not to focus on that because they are so many more interesting things and hints to discuss about... But I have to admit that it doesn't make sense... Unless the NK was behind it... The night king was there and they were sleeping... If he brings the storm then the icy ground would have become harder a long time ago!! And he would have killed Jon&Co way before!! But he just sat there watching them from the hill... He was waiting for something... Viserion...

 But really, that's not the problem... Time passes, yes! But if time does pass, then they should have died freezing...

I don't care about Gendry... Gendry was moving... Tormund said it himself... "You need to keep moving" So Gendry was running, then he kind of could keep himself from freezing... But the rest of them were there..; Standing on a icy ground for hours?days? we don't know... Not that important...

They wouldn't freeze to death in 24-48 hours wearing what they were wearing.  5+ days then I'd agree......there'd be a good chance of them freezing to death.

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1 minute ago, Meera of Tarth said:

Good point, yes, I also found weird that just one of the wights stays alive.

As for the patrolling thing. Unless they saw the ravens and then they expected some people to come, maybe that would be reasonable. What I don't find as reasonable is that the squad thinks they would find just some wights (and maybe just one WW-easily to destrioy) in the middle of nowhere...

I rewatched this last night with a friend who hadn't seen it and they mention this sequence in the show.

Jorah brings the wights dying up to Jon and Jon says.......maybe that WW made those wights that died.  This works....it was explained in the show.  WW dies....the wights he had turned died with him.......one wasn't made by him so it survived for capture.

It was covered by dialog in the show.

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