Jump to content
Cron

Okay, NOW Have We Seen The Most Wildly Unrealistic Thing Ever on GoT???

Recommended Posts

15 minutes ago, Deminelle said:

They value some other body parts more and prefer keeping them warm.

Like when my dad wears the fleece vest he got in 1995. It's because he just doesn't value his arms as much as his torso ;) 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, plastic throne said:

In the first scene we see Daenerys in (both show and books), we are shown how she cannot get burned by - almost boiled - water for her bath. The next time -> when she touches her dragon eggs that are supposed to be really, really hot (were next to fire or something, can't recall). Her "maiden" intervenes, she gets burned but Danny's hands are all fine.

That's not deus ex machina, its all foreshadowed.

There's a difference between Dany having a high pain tolerance to heat and being uneffectee by the flames of funeral pyre over the course of its lifecycle after it burned one women to death and reduced a dead man to ashes. One can be explained away as a pain tolerance the other is magic

 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Just now, lancerman said:

There's a difference between Dany having a high pain tolerance to heat and being uneffectee by the flames of funeral pyre over the course of its lifecycle after it burned one women to death and reduced a dead man to ashes. One can be explained away as a pain tolerance the other is magic

It's not tolerance when she doesn't get affected by it at all on more than one occasion.

It's even suggested via her witnessing her brother being burned/killed by molten gold, by saying "He was no dragon, fire cannot kill a dragon". When you connect all the dots, certainly not deux ex with her walking into the fire pit. I was fairly sure fire cannot harm her.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
8 minutes ago, plastic throne said:

It's not tolerance when she doesn't get affected by it at all on more than one occasion.

It's even suggested via her witnessing her brother being burned/killed by molten gold, by saying "He was no dragon, fire cannot kill a dragon". When you connect all the dots, certainly not deux ex with her walking into the fire pit. I was fairly sure fire cannot harm her.

It was a hot stone and hot none boiling water. I go in scalding hot water when I take a shower. It doesn't bother me. It's hinted that she has some sort of resistance. Flat out coming out unscathed in a fire that killed a person is completely different level and implies a super hero like immunity. It's like calling a puddle the ocean. If you want to say there is enough foreshadowing, fine, that's an opinion I can respect. 

However, there is no way you can say anything that happened in this past episode is deus ex machina in comparison to that instance 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, lancerman said:

The biggest deus ex machina in the series is Dany not being burned by Drogo pyre and surviving with three dragons. 

Wrong, Danny was not in an unresolvable situation, she could have simply not walked into the fire.

She also had premonitions telling her that she would be fine.

You really don't have a clue what your talking about.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Tbh, I'm with Yoren Luck, Darkstream and Dolorous Gabe when it comes to definition of "deux ex machina". So.. Yea :D:P

But I don't want to argue over it, really. I just wanted to point out that it (imo) it is foreshadowed and suggested about her possessing such "powers".

Edited by plastic throne

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, Darkstream said:

Wrong, Danny was not in an unresolvable situation, she could have simply not walked into the fire.

She also had premonitions telling her that she would be fine.

You really don't have a clue what your talking about.

Which again doesn't matter because it was resolved via a magical plot device that was not present at any point earlier. She could have walked out of the fire. Jon could have went on Drogon and left. Jon could have run and hid somewhere. The difference is in one case the character of Benjen did exist and in another Dany being able to solve fire didn't. They were both used to resolve the plot. 

Stop your embarrassing passive aggressive attitude because you misunderstood a trope and are triggered that you got called out on it. 

You were wrong, you misapplied the trope, you double downed on it, and now you are rushing to explain why based off your really incorrect and broad misuse of the trope that other instances arent.

I get it, you have a compulsion to criticize the show. I thought the sequence was stupid too. I'm just not as happily as you to make myself look ill informed by misapplying tropes (that you clearly don't understand) to instances they don't apply to.

It's beyond tired at this point and you are never going to admit that you didn't understand the trope. So there is no reason to continue with this. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, plastic throne said:

Tbh, I'm with Yoren Luck, Darkstream and Dolorous Gabe when it comes to definition of "deux ex machina". So.. Yea :D:P

But I don't want to argue over it, really. I just wanted to point out that it (imo) it is foreshadowed and suggested about her possessing such "powers".

It is forshadowed. It's just that in those instances that foreshadow it, you can easily explain it away as a heat tolerance. Surviving the pyre burning is so far beyond that, that it borders on a deus ex machina. Granted not all deus ex machina' are poor story telling if they are implemented into the story the correct way. 

Either way, there has to be zero reason to think that the plot device that resolved the conflict was possible 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
9 minutes ago, lancerman said:

It is forshadowed. It's just that in those instances that foreshadow it, you can easily explain it away as a heat tolerance. Surviving the pyre burning is so far beyond that, that it borders on a deus ex machina. Granted not all deus ex machina' are poor story telling if they are implemented into the story the correct way. 

Either way, there has to be zero reason to think that the plot device that resolved the conflict was possible 

They are going to call it a deus ex machina or not going to call it a deus ex machina based on their made up, changing definition of deus ex machina.

I know you want to explain it but you are fighting a losing battle.

If they don't like the book definition, they'll ignore it and make up there own.  If they need to be logically inconsistent in order to call one thing DEM but not the next.....they'll just be inconsistent.

Their purpose is to complain about the show.  Logic and reason and consistency is out the door.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Can we stop discussing deus ex machina?  

What I want to know is how the ice on that lake was able to support the horde of undead when Bran saw them with his ravens?  

I mean the NK was literally standing on the same island.  

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
17 minutes ago, Lord Okra said:

They are going to call it a deus ex machina or not going to call it a deus ex machina based on their made up, changing definition of deus ex machina.

I know you want to explain it but you are fighting a losing battle.

If they don't like the book definition, they'll ignore it and make up there own.  If they need to be logically inconsistent in order to call one thing DEM but not the next.....they'll just be inconsistent.

Their purpose is to complain about the show.  Logic and reason and consistency is out the door.

I know that. It's the point I'm making. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
11 minutes ago, Lurid Jester said:

Can we stop discussing deus ex machina?  

What I want to know is how the ice on that lake was able to support the horde of undead when Bran saw them with his ravens?  

I mean the NK was literally standing on the same island.  

It was colder then.... idk, it's stupid and inconsistent 

Edited by lancerman

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
7 minutes ago, lancerman said:

It was colder then....

The lake is over a geothermal spot and there was increased activity the 48 hours prior to the Mag 7 showing up.

But then right before they arrived......the geyser or whatever went into it's dormant phase.

The writers should have spent at least a few minutes giving the history of that particular feature.

 

Edited by Lord Okra

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
6 minutes ago, lancerman said:

It was colder then.... idk, it's stupid and inconsistent 

Lol yeah.  In all honesty I think they were just reusing the same set without intending it to be the same place in universe.  

Stupid and lazy, but cheap maybe?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 minute ago, Lord Okra said:

The lake is over a geothermal spot and there was increased activity the 48 hours prior to the Mag 7 showing up.

But then right before they arrived......the geyser or whatever went into it's dormant phase.

The writers should have spent at least a few minutes giving the history of that particular feature.

 

Yeah sorry I edited the post to make it more clear that I thought it was stupid and was saying it in jest. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
10 minutes ago, lancerman said:

Yeah sorry I edited the post to make it more clear that I thought it was stupid and was saying it in jest. 

I was being sarcastic as well.

Too bad sarcasm doesn't come across in text.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Please note the bolded in points 2 & 4 

Quote

 

Deus ex Machina are solutions to a problem.

1. They are never unexpected developments that make things worse, nor sudden twists that only change the understanding of a story.

2. Deus ex Machina are sudden or unexpected. This means that even if they are featured, referenced or set-up earlier in the story, they do not change the course of nor appear as a natural or a viable solution to the plotline they eventually "solve".

3. Deus ex Machina are used to resolve a situation portrayed as unsolvable or hopeless. If the problem could be solved with a bit of common sense or other type of simple intervention, the solution is not a Deus ex Machina no matter how unexpected it may seem.

4.Deus Ex Machina are external to the characters and their choices throughout the story. The solution comes from a character with small or non-existent influence on the plot until that point or random chance from nature or karma.

 

https://www.google.ca/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/DeusExMachina&ved=0ahUKEwiU_uWxlPPVAhWo7IMKHTeoD3IQFghUMAM&usg=AFQjCNENanKSiiXz3axVJ0USmoSaXStKng

Edited by Darkstream

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, Lurid Jester said:

Can we stop discussing deus ex machina?  

What I want to know is how the ice on that lake was able to support the horde of undead when Bran saw them with his ravens?  

I mean the NK was literally standing on the same island.  

Because I don't think it was meant to be considered the same location in Bran's raven scene. Production only happened to one giant set to get that many extras together. They were marching by the thousands in the raven vision in what is supposed to be "no ice lake" and there just happens to be an outcrop on which the NK stands. Clear the set from the extras and alter the CGI of the surrounding area to that of high cliffs and voila now the set has been turned into an ice lake that cannot carry that many marching wights. We don't think that a theater stage is the same location either.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
12 minutes ago, sweetsunray said:

Because I don't think it was meant to be considered the same location in Bran's raven scene. Production only happened to one giant set to get that many extras together. They were marching by the thousands in the raven vision in what is supposed to be "no ice lake" and there just happens to be an outcrop on which the NK stands. Clear the set from the extras and alter the CGI of the surrounding area to that of high cliffs and voila now the set has been turned into an ice lake that cannot carry that many marching wights. We don't think that a theater stage is the same location either.

Oh I totally agree.  I was using it more as an effort to derail the discussion back toward the subject of the thread.  

I think I've seen the "same location" piece come up a few times.  Once, like I did, and a few others as evidence the NK was baiting a trap.  

That said, I have doubts something like that would have happened in season 1.  The pressure of time and lack of anything but the high level event sequences are causing corners to be cut. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now

×