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Okay, NOW Have We Seen The Most Wildly Unrealistic Thing Ever on GoT???

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22 minutes ago, sweetsunray said:

Wow: directors know nothing and don't do anything? :blink:

Yep. Actual job is done by managers, assistants, and other lowly servants ^_^

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26 minutes ago, Armand Gargalen said:

I am really looking forward to it. Wanna bet the rant thread will beat records?

Great point, I bet it does. I am already pissed from the trailers about the Unsullied just showing up.

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1 hour ago, Cron said:

What is YMMV?  (Oops, accidentally posted before I was ready.  Gotta edit, now)

Hey, I'm gonna be blunt, and cut to the chase.  Most guys would jump all over Dany within 5 seconds of seeing her.  This doesn't have to be "true love" to be plausible to me.  And frankly, I think Dany is a super sexually charged character who would jump all over Jon immediately, too.  Dany loves sex.  She's very interested in sex, and having sex, that is very clear to me, books and show (although, granted, ESPECIALLY in the show)

She hones her craft.  She strives to learn how to please her partner.  It's not hard for me to imagine her and Jon hitting it off really well really soon .

YIKES!! Joran needs to die??  HARR!!!  

I dunno if he needs to die, but I do agree about the slaving and not respecting Dany's boundaries.

As a guy, I'd have no problem hanging out with him, and having him on an expedition like the Wight Hunt, but I think a lot of girls would not be as friendly about his behavior towards Dany as Dany is (especially given the fact that he's about 3 times her age), but hey, I've never been a girl, so maybe I'm wrong.

Oh, absolutely, what we have here are two very attractive people single people in the same room. It's perfectly plausible that they might want to act on that attraction. But I think the show is trying to portray this as more than that, as a significant relationship featuring a genuine emotional connection? I don't think it's meant to be all about sex in which case they needed to do more to get that across.

As for Dany, she's certainly confident of her own sexuality, but so far her two (in 6 years!) partners have been her husband and a guy who pursued her for months so I'm not sure she would just jump Jon. 

Jorah has just survived a terminal disease and a fight against the NK. He might unfortunately be impervious to harm. You send him away and he comes bouncing back. 

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27 minutes ago, Megorova said:

Yep. Actual job is done by managers, assistants, and other lowly servants ^_^

The director DIRECTS the episode.

Are you now claiming that the cleaning personnel and the set makers know more than a director, because they do more "manual" labor?

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6 hours ago, Cron said:

Absolutely correct, in fact many of those estimates are conservative (which is fine and fair)

And look at a map of that area of land.  It goes NORTHWEST, not straight north.  If they went straight north from Eastwatch, they would end up in Hardhome, then the sea.

This means that the distances involved are well in excess of 150 miles from Eastwatch to where Viserion died.  If you picture a right triangle with one leg being the Wall (from Eastwatch to Castle Black, which is about 150 miles) then the hypotenuse (from Eastwatch to where Viserion died) is even MORE ("a squared plus b squared equals c squared," the Pythagorean theorem)

This means Gendry ran somewhere between 150 and 300 miles, according to known maps and known distances

(Indeed, it's POSSIBLE Gendry's run was even further, AND that the round trip between Eastwatch and Dragonstone was roughly 4,000 miles).

I wouldn't put a number of miles on it, but it's at least more than 2 days travel on horseback away from Eastwatch (per the Fist and Craster's).

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1 hour ago, GrapefruitPerrier said:

Great point, I bet it does. I am already pissed from the trailers about the Unsullied just showing up.

Really? I did not think that too far fetched, actually. They have been established to be trained to march for long distances and there is basically no one to stop them if they hike from Casterly Rock. What made the scene of their ships being burned a bit pointless, but that is minor stuff compared with some other much worse issues.

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36 minutes ago, sweetsunray said:

I wouldn't put a number of miles on it, but it's at least more than 2 days travel on horseback away from Eastwatch (per the Fist and Craster's).

Yes, at least two days.

And, in my opinion, quite a bit more.

As far as I know, the maps I've been referencing are canon.  I have no reason to believe they are not.  They go back many, many years (in our time), and I can't imagine GRRM would have allowed them to be published with his books 15 or 20 years ago if they were not at least very close to accurate.

And, as I'm sure you know, we HAVE known distances that can be used for scale.  In the books, Winterfell is 1,500 miles from King's landing, Winterfell is about 620 miles from Castle Black (as I recall), and the Wall itself is 300 miles long.

Now, using any one (or all three) of those distances as a scale, we can look at the map of known lands north of the Wall, and quickly see that Eastwatch is somewhere around 150 to 300 miles away from where Viserion died.

Which is a lot more than 2 days' march in sub-zero temperatures across rough terrain.

But hey, I'm just making conversation here.  I understand, I think, that you and I generally agree here.

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5 minutes ago, Armand Gargalen said:

Really? I did not think that too far fetched, actually. They have been established to be trained to march for long distances and there is basically no one to stop them if they hike from Casterly Rock. What made the scene of their ships being burned a bit pointless, but that is minor stuff compared with some other much worse issues.

You have my thought wrong, the idea that they have not shown the Unsullied marching, and the Dorne army on the march to avenge their queen, seems weird to me. The Unsullied and the Dornish armies should have marched to Dragonstone first, based on the timing if I understand anything close to what it is.

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1 hour ago, Maid So Fair said:

Oh, absolutely, what we have here are two very attractive people single people in the same room. It's perfectly plausible that they might want to act on that attraction. But I think the show is trying to portray this as more than that, as a significant relationship featuring a genuine emotional connection? I don't think it's meant to be all about sex in which case they needed to do more to get that across.

I agree.  And I think the time for that may come.

1 hour ago, Maid So Fair said:

As for Dany, she's certainly confident of her own sexuality, but so far her two (in 6 years!) partners have been her husband and a guy who pursued her for months so I'm not sure she would just jump Jon. 

Maybe you're right.  Maybe I'm judging more based on book-Dany than show-Dany, who I thought was quite sexually aggressive and proactive (not that there's anything wrong with that, HAR!)

1 hour ago, Maid So Fair said:

Jorah has just survived a terminal disease and a fight against the NK. He might unfortunately be impervious to harm. You send him away and he comes bouncing back. 

Yep.  Jorah "Bad Penny" Mormont.

Dany has now sent him away 3 times, and he keeps returning.  Bad boomerang.

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On 8/20/2017 at 10:51 PM, Raksha 2014 said:

 

Yes, Westeros is actually the size of Great Britain.  Or Texas at the largest.

Not sure if this has been addressed yet, but according to GRRM himself, Westeros, including the lands north of the Wall, is approximately the size of North America. The distance from the Wall to the southernmost tip of Dorne is approximately 3,000 miles. Here is an excellent breakdown on the size of Westeros by our very own Werthead.

The travel times in "Beyond the Wall" were the height of absurdity.

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On 8/27/2017 at 10:40 PM, The Great Unwashed said:

Not sure if this has been addressed yet, but according to GRRM himself, Westeros, including the lands north of the Wall, is approximately the size of North America. The distance from the Wall to the southernmost tip of Dorne is approximately 3,000 miles. Here is an excellent breakdown on the size of Westeros by our very own Werthead.

The travel times in "Beyond the Wall" were the height of absurdity.

Good stuff.

Yeah, as I recall, the books say the distance from Winterfell to King's Landing is 500 leagues (1,500 miles), and Castle Black is a bit over 600 miles from Winterfell, and the Wall is 300 miles long.  So, just looking at a map, and eying it all up, it's easy to see that the distance from Eastwatch to Dragonstone is probably around 1,800 or 1,900 miles.

Then, on top of that, we have Gendry's run.  The land north of the Wall has forest, but the Wight Hunters were beyond the forest already when the episode STARTED.  Looking at the land (which actually goes northwest above the Wall, not even straight north), and using the length of the Wall as a scale (300 miles), we can see that Gendry's run to Eastwatch had to be WELL in excess of 150 miles, and possibly 200 to 250 miles, maybe even more.

And he did this, on foot, in sub-zero temperatures, presumably non-stop, with no hat.  Meanwhile, Jon and the Wight Hunters were waiting.  And waiting.  And waiting.  And then when Gendry got to Eastwatch, the raven had to fly to Dragonstone, and Dany and the dragons had to fly all the way back.

To make it all "plausible," I believe Gendry would have had to run at about 100 miles per hour for 2 or 3 hours, then the raven had to fly about 1,800 miles at around 200 miles per hour, and then Dany had to return on a dragon at about 600 miles per hour, without Dany falling off, freezing to death, or suffocating    Without even a hat on her head.  (My references to hats in this post are kind of a little joke.)

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5 hours ago, Cron said:

To make it all "plausible," I believe Gendry would have had to run at about 100 miles per hour for 2 or 3 hours, then the raven had to fly about 1,800 miles at around 200 miles per hour, and then Dany had to return on a dragon at about 600 miles per hour, without Dany falling off, freezing to death, or suffocating    Without even a hat on her head.  (My references to hats in this post are kind of a little joke.)

 

No no no... you're exaggerating :P

Let's assume the Magnificant 7 were there for 36 hours and that they're 200KM north of the wall.

We start with Gendry and assume he's running at sustained Olympic speed (for the 100M sprint) of 45 KM/H. That means it took Gendry only 4.5 hours to get to Eastwatch.

We add 30 minutes until they dragged him inside, wrote the letter, and sent the Raven, leaving us with 31 hours available in which the Raven must reach Dragonstone and Daenerys to fly back beyond the Wall.

Let's assume a Dragon's speed is twice that of a Raven, meaning the raven had to fly at 90 KM/H to reach Dragon stone in 20 hours.

I'm giving Daenerys 60 minutes until she gets on Drogon, because you know, it takes time to get into that outfit.

Which, finally, means Drogon was flying at a measly 200KM/H.

Quite 'doable' wouldn't you say? :rofl:

PS: I hope the math is right - I was laughing so hard as I was writing this, I'm not sure my brain was functioning correctly!

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4 hours ago, Pearly said:

No no no... you're exaggerating :P

Let's assume the Magnificant 7 were there for 36 hours and that they're 200KM north of the wall.

We start with Gendry and assume he's running at sustained Olympic speed (for the 100M sprint) of 45 KM/H. That means it took Gendry only 4.5 hours to get to Eastwatch.

We add 30 minutes until they dragged him inside, wrote the letter, and sent the Raven, leaving us with 31 hours available in which the Raven must reach Dragonstone and Daenerys to fly back beyond the Wall.

Let's assume a Dragon's speed is twice that of a Raven, meaning the raven had to fly at 90 KM/H to reach Dragon stone in 20 hours.

I'm giving Daenerys 60 minutes until she gets on Drogon, because you know, it takes time to get into that outfit.

Which, finally, means Drogon was flying at a measly 200KM/H.

Quite 'doable' wouldn't you say? :rofl:

PS: I hope the math is right - I was laughing so hard as I was writing this, I'm not sure my brain was functioning correctly!

Good stuff, I enjoyed reading it!  And I acknowledge we can never know some of this 100% for sure, but it's fun to discuss.

I think maybe some of the differences in our conclusions might be because of the difference between "miles" and "kilometers," though.  Unless I got confused, it looks like you're using somewhat similar raw numbers for the distances as I used, but in kilometers rather than miles.  For example, you say Eastwatch to Dragonstone at 90 kph would be 20 hours, but that's only 1,800 kilometers, which is only 1,080 miles.  But some estimates have Dragonstone at almost twice that distance from Eastwatch.

Also, during the time since I started this topic thread, I have examined the area through which Gendry had to run, and I have come to the conclusion that the distance is far greater than I originally even suspected.

If you Google a close-up map of the Wall and the area north of it, I think you will see that the area directly north of the Wall is almost ALL forest (only along the very far west portion of the Wall is there no forest directly north of the Wall)  Thus, in order for the Wight Hunters to have already emerged from the forest when the episode began (which they had, b/c we never saw any forest), they would have had to walk AT LEAST roughly about 300 miles (480 kilometers) before the episode even BEGAN.  And then, as we know, during the episode, they walked even MORE.

Indeed, it would seem that the fight with the Night King occurred somewhere near or around the Frostfang mountains, which is an area roughly 400 miles (640 kilometers) away from Eastwatch.

Great conversation, though, and I acknowledge that we are really just bouncing ideas around, and cannot be positive about exact distances here.

So, how did you like the finale??

 

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12 minutes ago, Cron said:

Good stuff, I enjoyed reading it!  And I acknowledge we can never know some of this 100% for sure, but it's fun to discuss.

I think maybe some of the differences in our conclusions might be because of the difference between "miles" and "kilometers," though.  Unless I got confused, it looks like you're using somewhat similar raw numbers for the distances as I used, but in kilometers rather than miles.  For example, you say Eastwatch to Dragonstone at 90 kph would be 20 hours, but that's only 1,800 kilometers, which is only 1,080 miles.  But some estimates have Dragonstone at almost twice that distance from Eastwatch.

Also, during the time since I started this topic thread, I have examined the area through which Gendry had to run, and I have come to the conclusion that the distance is far greater than I originally even suspected.

If you Google a close-up map of the Wall and the area north of it, I think you will see that the area directly north of the Wall is almost ALL forest (only along the very far west portion of the Wall is there no forest directly north of the Wall)  Thus, in order for the Wight Hunters to have already emerged from the forest when the episode began (which they had, b/c we never saw any forest), they would have had to walk AT LEAST roughly about 300 miles (480 kilometers) before the episode even BEGAN.  And then, as we know, during the episode, they walked even MORE.

Indeed, it would seem that the fight with the Night King occurred somewhere near or around the Frostfang mountains, which is an area roughly 400 miles (640 kilometers) away from Eastwatch.

Great conversation, though, and I acknowledge that we are really just bouncing ideas around, and cannot be positive about exact distances here.

So, how did you like the finale??

 

There you go, my brain was not functioning properly! 

And to answer your question, I don't think I've 'enjoyed' any GoT season less than this one. There were some reasonable moments in the finale, but never really enjoyable. The show now requires a certain level of either natural or artificial mind-stopping (or slowing) to be truly enjoyable. 

The special effects, CGI, and costumes were great though. 

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19 minutes ago, Cron said:

Good stuff, I enjoyed reading it!  And I acknowledge we can never know some of this 100% for sure, but it's fun to discuss.

I think maybe some of the differences in our conclusions might be because of the difference between "miles" and "kilometers," though.  Unless I got confused, it looks like you're using somewhat similar raw numbers for the distances as I used, but in kilometers rather than miles.  For example, you say Eastwatch to Dragonstone at 90 kph would be 20 hours, but that's only 1,800 kilometers, which is only 1,080 miles.  But some estimates have Dragonstone at almost twice that distance from Eastwatch.

Also, during the time since I started this topic thread, I have examined the area through which Gendry had to run, and I have come to the conclusion that the distance is far greater than I originally even suspected.

If you Google a close-up map of the Wall and the area north of it, I think you will see that the area directly north of the Wall is almost ALL forest (only along the very far west portion of the Wall is there no forest directly north of the Wall)  Thus, in order for the Wight Hunters to have already emerged from the forest when the episode began (which they had, b/c we never saw any forest), they would have had to walk AT LEAST roughly about 300 miles (480 kilometers) before the episode even BEGAN.  And then, as we know, during the episode, they walked even MORE.

Indeed, it would seem that the fight with the Night King occurred somewhere near or around the Frostfang mountains, which is an area roughly 400 miles (640 kilometers) away from Eastwatch.

Great conversation, though, and I acknowledge that we are really just bouncing ideas around, and cannot be positive about exact distances here.

So, how did you like the finale??

 

Here's a second attempt to work the math:

I'm starting with the same assumptions:

  • The magnificent seven were on that island for 36 hours.
  • 30 minutes grace in Eastwatch and -what the hell- another 30 minutes in Dragonstone (Daenerys is a fast dresser).
  • The Island is 480 KM north of Eastwatch.
  • Gendry can maintain a speed of 45 KM/H for indefinitely.

Based on the above:

It took Gendry almost 11 hours to reach Eastwatch leaving 25 hours for the Raven to get to Dragonstone and Daenerys to fly back to the island.

The Raven flew at a speed of roughly 175 KM/H

The dragons flew at a speed of only 448 KM/H

 

Oh! Now I see how perfectly reasonable this is. But no, wait... I know where I erred... they must have these longer than 36 hours... but then they would have frozen to death as you rightly stated... 

oh well. Let me bang my head against a wall a few times and it might make sense afterwards!

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On 8/20/2017 at 10:30 PM, Cron said:

Face it, friends.  Reasonable continuity in terms of travel through time and space is out the window.

Yes, it's just TV.  Relax and enjoy, everyone!

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7 hours ago, Pearly said:

There you go, my brain was not functioning properly! 

And to answer your question, I don't think I've 'enjoyed' any GoT season less than this one. There were some reasonable moments in the finale, but never really enjoyable. The show now requires a certain level of either natural or artificial mind-stopping (or slowing) to be truly enjoyable. 

The special effects, CGI, and costumes were great though. 

Oh, too bad, sorry to hear that.

What about Episode 704 (with the dragon battle at the end)?

Didn't even like that one too much?

Edited by Cron

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6 hours ago, Pearly said:

Here's a second attempt to work the math:

I'm starting with the same assumptions:

  • The magnificent seven were on that island for 36 hours.
  • 30 minutes grace in Eastwatch and -what the hell- another 30 minutes in Dragonstone (Daenerys is a fast dresser).
  • The Island is 480 KM north of Eastwatch.
  • Gendry can maintain a speed of 45 KM/H for indefinitely.

Based on the above:

It took Gendry almost 11 hours to reach Eastwatch leaving 25 hours for the Raven to get to Dragonstone and Daenerys to fly back to the island.

The Raven flew at a speed of roughly 175 KM/H

The dragons flew at a speed of only 448 KM/H

 

Oh! Now I see how perfectly reasonable this is. But no, wait... I know where I erred... they must have these longer than 36 hours... but then they would have frozen to death as you rightly stated... 

oh well. Let me bang my head against a wall a few times and it might make sense afterwards!

HARR!!!

Yeah, I think these things just can't be reconciled.  We can't (and don't) know the exact distances or exact times, but I think it's pretty clear that they they don't even reasonably match up.

Oh well.  The show has done a lot of things really well, in my opinion, so I guess we'll just have to grin and bear it and move on on this one.

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On 8/20/2017 at 10:30 PM, Cron said:

You think you've seen teleporting?  

You think you've seen jetpacking?

Don't make me laugh.

706 just upped the ante to a whole new level, never even imagined before, I think.

While Jon & Company are confronting the Army of the Dead, Gendry is sent to run back to Eastwatch, where a raven is sent to Dany on Dragonstone, then Dany hops on a dragon, and flies all the way back and makes it in time to save the expedition to capture a wight???

Face it, friends.  Reasonable continuity in terms of travel through time and space is out the window.

Completely out the window.

The skills of the writing crew are not up to the task. 

Have we seen the most widely unrealistic thing ever on GoT?  Maybe.  How do you feel about Arya's Run last year?  Was that unrealistic enough for you?  Jon coming out unscathed in the battle for winterfell should be in the top five.  Jaime and Bronn escaping unnoticed from a battlefield surrounded by mounted Dothraki warriors. 

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4 hours ago, Cron said:

Oh, too bad, sorry to hear that.

What about Episode 704 (with the dragon battle at the end)?

Didn't even like that one too much?

That was probably my favorite episode of the entire season. In the grand scheme of all seasons, it probably wasn't exceptional, but next to its sisters, it was OUTSTANDING!!!

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