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snow is the man

So why are the dead such a threat?

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38 minutes ago, Mikkel said:

I don't remember that from the show, but maybe. The history book is neither show nor book though.

Well in the show we saw the COF make the Wights.  Also, that same scene (weird rock formations, arrowhead mountain in the background) is the same mountain our group goes to in this past episode.  I don't think its been fully answered on what they want but I think its been made clear that their purpose was to kill men for the COF.

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57 minutes ago, Sir Dingleberry said:

So, aren't the WW just doing what they were created for, killing men?

It's possible, but I doubt that's all there is to it. After all, they had this deal of sorts with Craster and left him and his wife/daughter harem alone. They've also seemingly be content to leave the Free Folk alone in the past, hence the latter's large numbers and even some permanent settlements. Something is driving the White Walkers to act, whether that's a choice they made and thus a conscious plan is, I think, still an open question.

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@snow is the man oh my gosh this is probably in the top 5 of my complaints about this episode (the absolute single worst episode of all time).  How did the wights become so easy to defeat?  And the white walkers as well?  It is completely inconsistent with how they were presented earlier.  And I bet next episode when it is presented to Cersei the the wight will be conveniently killable only by fire again.

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7 minutes ago, Anarres said:

It's possible, but I doubt that's all there is to it. After all, they had this deal of sorts with Craster and left him and his wife/daughter harem alone. They've also seemingly be content to leave the Free Folk alone in the past, hence the latter's large numbers and even some permanent settlements. Something is driving the White Walkers to act, whether that's a choice they made and thus a conscious plan is, I think, still an open question.

I agree but some of that was clear. Craster was giving them boys in order to create more wights (show doesn't discuss but some youtube videos hit on this and reference the book in terms of Craster possibly worshipping the WW).  They were lying low over that period in order to create more wights but I agree that as to why they're acting now it is not clear.

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36 minutes ago, Obsidian Knight said:

Yes, they become easier to kill. That's bad. I remember how hard it was when they attacked Commander Mormont in the first season. Only two of them. It seemed a real challenge. Now they are like the sacks of bones. And White Walkers also don't seem as invincible as before.

But what do they want? The children of forest made them to kill people. So they are doing it. Their mission is to kill them all. Maybe there is a way to remove that Childrens' dagger out of WW heart and make him human again. I don't know. I suppose they have some great metal constructions to get over the wall. Because those chains were impressive. :rolleyes:

Not necessarily bad, the one that attacked Mormont was relatively freshly dead, some of these other ones looked like they'd been dead for some time, to the point they were worn down to the bone.

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4 minutes ago, Lucius Lovejoy said:

@snow is the man oh my gosh this is probably in the top 5 of my complaints about this episode (the absolute single worst episode of all time).  How did the wights become so easy to defeat?  And the white walkers as well?  It is completely inconsistent with how they were presented earlier.  And I bet next episode when it is presented to Cersei the the wight will be conveniently killable only by fire again.

I agree it was too easy but to be fair everyone was fighting with either dragonglass weapon, valaryian steel, or fire swords. So, all have been shown as weaknesses of the Wights. But I don't like how they made the Wights utterly useless at fighting, they simply swarm and try to pull someone apart as opposed to using their weapons like they did in Hardhome. Also, what happened the Giants and any other animal under their control coming into play during this episode?

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Considering their numbers expand as they kill people I would think they would still be dangerous.  And now that we have found the Night King throws a javelin better than Lamar Latrell I would think realistically it would be unwise to go toe to toe with him on the back of a dragon when he can just launch a spear.  

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ShowJon is obviously a top tier fighter at this point, however it is pretty annoying how easily he took out that White Walker (1st one he killed he used the element of surprise, since the Walker didn't expect humans to have steel weapons that could harm them), essentially that means Dany could airdrop 4 or 4 competent Valyrian steel armed warriors onto the Nights King's position and take out him and his top guys out of the game (which may cause his entire army to collapse).

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5 hours ago, Armand Gargalen said:

They do not want to attack Westeros. They just want humans to stay the fuck of their side of the Wall. Jon is prejudiced and wrong about their intentions.

At least, that is the only logical way to explain why they did not invade yet when we could see in this episode they are a Gendry´s run away from the wall. 

Haha I like this idea. The misunderstood Others

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4 minutes ago, Snormund said:

Haha I like this idea. The misunderstood Others

In carrying on with this theory, I propose the Wall was actually built by the WW´s to keep the humans out of their land. They have been quite tolerant with the wildlings for the last few millennia, but eventually they got fed up and decided to kick them out. 

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13 minutes ago, Ser Arthur Hightower said:

ShowJon is obviously a top tier fighter at this point, however it is pretty annoying how easily he took out that White Walker (1st one he killed he used the element of surprise, since the Walker didn't expect humans to have steel weapons that could harm them), essentially that means Dany could airdrop 4 or 4 competent Valyrian steel armed warriors onto the Nights King's position and take out him and his top guys out of the game (which may cause his entire army to collapse).

Lol agreed.  The WWs are shit at actually fighting according to the show.

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1 minute ago, Armand Gargalen said:

In carrying on with this theory, I propose the Wall was actually built by the WW´s to keep the humans out of their land. They have been quite tolerant with the wildlings for the last few millennia, but eventually they got fed up and decided to kick them out. 

Lol The Night's King is the real hero of the saga. 

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What is dead can't be killed again 

They can't really be killed. They will be reanimated after or during the battle. Furthermore, I'd imagine that if the books and show are implying, the Others/white walkers seem to bring the storm with them. I can't see how a large army will be able to march through that. 

Lets not forget how many people it took to take down that one bear. Imagine dozens of them in every small village, tavern..etc 

Not to mention, now the WW have a dragon. I can't see how they humans without Danny's dragon can stop it. It's not like those Balistas will do anything to it l

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I'm coming to believe Bran is NK as a result of meddling with the past.  I think he as NK has been waiting for this event because he needed the dragon.  No big problem since he has been waiting 8000 years to kill himself as Bran and stop the cycle.

I don't lay claim to thus theory btw.  It has been posited by others.   Starting to make more and more sense.

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10 minutes ago, Snormund said:

Lol The Night's King is the real hero of the saga. 

Well, I would not call a racist guy who builds a wall to keep other people out a hero, but he is definitely not into invading anyone either :)

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1 hour ago, xjlxking said:

Not to mention, now the WW have a dragon. I can't see how they humans without Danny's dragon can stop it. It's not like those Balistas will do anything to it.

That zombie bear was hacked apart, battered, and even set on fire. It kept on fighting. One prick with the obsidian dagger, though, and it fell to the ground like a sack of ash. In a universe of consistent logic, mass arrow fire with obsidian arrows would bring a wighted dragon down in seconds. Keep in mind that their effective fire-spewing range is a lot shorter than the range of a longbow (some 50 meters or so, apparently depending on the needs of the scene). A scorpion hit like the one Bronn scored on Drogon would cause the dragon to fall apart in mid-air, possibly without even slowing the bolt down.

As for defeating the army of the dead, daggers like used in the show seems like the wrong way to go. Even arrowheads would be suboptimal. If they want to truly stop the dead, they need to make obsidian caltrops. Find a chokepoint, scatter caltrops with catapults, bait the army into rushing forward. For every pricked foot, a warrior drops inert to the ground. Advanced strategies would involve obsidian-tipped barbed wire, strung out at face height or in concertina arrangements so the mounds of dead bodies won't create a footbridge across the "mine"field.

The good ol' Saddam strategy might work well too, the wights have proven stupid enough to walk into deadly obstacles by the hundreds before sensing the danger, but I don't think Westeros has any oil fields to set ablaze.

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4 hours ago, Lucius Lovejoy said:

@snow is the man oh my gosh this is probably in the top 5 of my complaints about this episode (the absolute single worst episode of all time).  How did the wights become so easy to defeat?  And the white walkers as well?  It is completely inconsistent with how they were presented earlier.  And I bet next episode when it is presented to Cersei the the wight will be conveniently killable only by fire again.

I liked the episode to be honest or at least most of it. Also the thing about the white walkers is their biggest advantage is they can only be killed by dragon glass and valyrian steel. Trying to parry with dragon glass won't end well. Jon was the only one to go after it in that scene so it makes me think they at least partially planned it out so the one with the right weapon went after it. But I still hate what they did with the wights. Also something they left out of the show is that when the white walkers come it is supposed to get so cold it hurts to breath which makes them even harder to fight

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3 minutes ago, Kyll.Ing. said:

That zombie bear was hacked apart, battered, and even set on fire. It kept on fighting. One prick with the obsidian dagger, though, and it fell to the ground like a sack of ash. In a universe of consistent logic, mass arrow fire with obsidian arrows would bring a wighted dragon down in seconds. Keep in mind that their effective fire-spewing range is a lot shorter than the range of a longbow (some 50 meters or so, apparently depending on the needs of the scene). A scorpion hit like the one Bronn scored on Drogon would cause the dragon to fall apart in mid-air, possibly without even slowing the bolt down.

As for defeating the army of the dead, daggers like used in the show seems like the wrong way to go. Even arrowheads would be suboptimal. If they want to truly stop the dead, they need to make obsidian caltrops. Find a chokepoint, scatter caltrops with catapults, bait the army into rushing forward. For every pricked foot, a warrior drops inert to the ground. Advanced strategies would involve obsidian-tipped barbed wire, strung out at face height or in concertina arrangements so the mounds of dead bodies won't create a footbridge across the "mine"field.

The good ol' Saddam strategy might work well too, the wights have proven stupid enough to walk into deadly obstacles by the hundreds before sensing the danger, but I don't think Westeros has any oil fields to set ablaze.

I had to look up caltrop.  That's a grand idea.

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I felt the same watching this episode in comparison to Hardhome.. They seemed more a threat then. The thing that really lessens their threat level, is there seem to be only like 6 Others. All the Dead can do is overwhelm you. they don't seem to use weapons. On top of this, you kill one of the masters, like all those he changed dies. Makes everything so easy. Dragon glass Bowmen would obliterate the Undead army along with dragon fire.

And also, 7 guys holding thousands of them off on a small island for more then 20 seconds....

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I think they portrayed the fight against wights as easier than at Hardhome because Jon had learned something about them.

There is also the possibility that NK held back because he didn't want to kill his half brother.  He got the dragon he needed and Dany wouldn't have come to rescue Seven Dead Samurai.

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