No dragonrider discussion?

[Illiterati]

4 minutes ago, Samwell_Tarly said:

I dont personally think this is it do you???

Metaphorically or physically its going to be a damn site ''bigger'' than that...

I hope you are right.  I want Bran to warg a dragon.

I'm just making the point that Bran has already technically flown.

[Katleesi]

17 hours ago, Samwell_Tarly said:

Daenerys will be the only one who rides a Dragon unfortunately. 

If they were going to bring the three heads  of the dragon prophecy to the show they would have to also bring and fulfil A + J = T too, which is never going to happen. 

Personally with one dragon left for grabs I wouldnt be suprised that Bran will try to warg Rhaegal, this kid needs to show us how powerful he really is. Lets not forget he will fly.......

After last night, I am kind of hoping Bran will Warg into Viserion (he has the NK connection, and as we saw in harry potter, Legimency can go both ways...LOL). 

[falcotron]

13 hours ago, Queen of Winter said:

My apologies, I should have been clearer in my response.  I think the whole "dragon has three heads" and the dragonriders had to be axed for the show, and that it's more of a book thing.

Well, then I definitely disagree. I think the show has even more reason to give Jon a dragon than the books: it's (a) a cool visual, (b) fanservice for Jon fans, and (c) putting Jon up on Dany's level so their romance can be perfect. Those are all things the show wants.

I think the "dragon has three heads" prophecy was axed because they don't actually need it. They can easily get riders on all three dragons without it. And they don't need its obvious but incorrect interpretation as a red herring to set up a big surprise, because TV is a visual medium and they got that big surprise last night. And meanwhile, doing the prophecy would require spending a lot more time on historical flashbacks and Aemon stories and so on. So, axing it benefits them a little, without costing them anything.

[Battle Kitten]

I still want to see the crackpot that the ice dragon is Winter and Winter is coming has a whole new meaning. Jon can ride that dragon or maybe Bran in the ultimate dragon jacking.

Also, please get those living dragons some armor by season 8. It's indecent they're flying round all naked.

[Dragonandwolf]

On 8/21/2017 at 8:23 AM, Lord Varys said:

There is no Night King in the books so we'll never get this atrocious a plot in the books. The dragon has three heads in the books, indicating that all three dragons will fight against the Others in the books. Now, that doesn't mean that they will be of all that much use. A dragon shouldn't be of much help during a snow storm or blizzard, after all. You have to be able to find your targets to incinerate them...

But the idea that a wight dragon could actually fly is simply not all that likely. The wights are slow zombies in the books. And slow zombies cannot even run.

By the way - the dragon isn't an ice dragon if the reports are true. It still breathes fire and is going to destroy the Wall with fire in the next episode.

The books might have dragon vs. dragon fights during the Second Dance - a plot the show scrapped - so they think they have to do that via the Dark Lord ruler of the Others.

There is also zero reason to believe the same dragonriding rules apply in the show as in the books. Jon and Dany might end up sharing Drogon.

In the books we'll have to have our first set of dragonriders in Meereen since Viserion and Rhaegal are not going to go to Westeros with the gang if they are not claimed by riders. They are wild dragons now and until they are claimed they will do as they please.

Sorry to ask but I haven´t read the books, so who control the WW if there is no Night king in the books then who creates the wights?

[falcotron]

21 minutes ago, Dragonandwolf said:

so who control the WW if there is no Night king in the books

The books haven't gotten as far as the show, so not as much has been explained, but:

Nobody controls the Others (the book equivalent of the White Walkers).

They may have some kind of leadership, but we haven't seen any. And even if they do, it's likely just another Other who's no more special than Mance controlling the wildlings or Sansa controlling Winterfell, not someone like the Night King who them all and has some magical hold over them.

(That being said, I don't know how much control the Night King has over the Walkers even on the show. He could just be the first of them, and their King, and nothing more than that.)

21 minutes ago, Dragonandwolf said:

then who creates the wights?

The Others probably create the wights, the same way the WW do on the show. (But we don't know if that means that killing an Other will kill all of his wights, if you're going to ask that next.)

[Dragonandwolf]

Just now, falcotron said:

The books haven't gotten as far as the show, so not as much has been explained, but:

Nobody controls the Others (the book equivalent of the White Walkers).

They may have some kind of leadership, but we haven't seen any. And even if they do, it's likely just another Other who's no more special than Mance controlling the wildlings or Sansa controlling Winterfell, not someone like the Night King who them all and has some magical hold over them.

(That being said, I don't know how much control the Night King has over the Walkers even on the show. He could just be the first of them, and their King, and nothing more than that.)

The Others probably create the wights, the same way the WW do on the show. (But we don't know if that means that killing an Other will kill all of his wights, if you're going to ask that next.)

Ohh I see, thank you!!

[boojam]

I did think something else about dragon riding. I had moment there after Uncle Benji saved Jon that they were gonna extend the action. That a White Walker or bunch of dead would catch up with Jon and that Rhaegal was rescue him. Looking after Targ blood you know.

What happened to Rhaegal ? He just seemed to take off out of sight, was that him there at the end forlornly flying about Eastwatch?

 

(Indications are the show is so off-book now that the only thing one has to go on is that Benioff said a long time ago that he show will wind up at the same spot the prose story does. I am beginning to wonder that now.)

[falcotron]

23 minutes ago, boojam said:

(Indications are the show is so off-book now that the only thing one has to go on is that Benioff said a long time ago that he show will wind up at the same spot the prose story does. I am beginning to wonder that now.)

Of course the show is off-book, because the books don't exist yet. But GRRM did give them an outline of the "major plot beats" for each major character's arc, not just how everything winds up at the end.

Obviously they're not following all of those major plot beats exactly (e.g., all of Aegon's major plot beats have been given to other characters or discarded). And of course they still have to figure out on their own how to get from beat C to beat D on the outline even when they are following them. But I think they're actually more likely to converge more toward the end than to diverge farther. (Except that the book may have quite a bit of epilogue after the big finale, while the show will have at most one episode of it, of course.)

[boojam]

11 hours ago, falcotron said:

Of course the show is off-book, because the books don't exist yet. But GRRM did give them an outline of the "major plot beats" for each major character's arc, not just how everything winds up at the end.

Obviously they're not following all of those major plot beats exactly (e.g., all of Aegon's major plot beats have been given to other characters or discarded). And of course they still have to figure out on their own how to get from beat C to beat D on the outline even when they are following them. But I think they're actually more likely to converge more toward the end than to diverge farther. (Except that the book may have quite a bit of epilogue after the big finale, while the show will have at most one episode of it, of course.)

We have known that GRRM and D&D (and D&D and Bryan) conferenced several times, twice in Santa Fe about the whole story. D&D have stated several times that they know , in broad strokes, and seemingly with many particulars, the progress and end of the story. From the published books and from excerpts from Winds of Winter several major departures are known, one BIG one in particular. In the books as well as the show there is the implication that the biggest show down (probably a moot point now) is with THEWHITEOTHERSWALKERS.(Have to say the show has placed THE DEAD for THE OTHERS which is ok, but sound a little edgeless to me.) After that supposedly the story ends at the same place or some good approximation there of?

(I don't know if anyone has asked George about show involvement as of right now, he has made his standard 'the show is the show and the books are the books' several times. I can't tell if he even looked at the teleplays for season 6, much less season 7.  Seems he recently said he has not looked at season 7 yet?  He has stated no dissatisfaction and I don’t think he has any.)

[falcotron]

12 hours ago, boojam said:

I don't know if anyone has asked George about show involvement as of right now, he has made his standard 'the show is the show and the books are the books' several times. I can't tell if he even looked at the teleplays for season 6, much less season 7.  Seems he recently said he has not looked at season 7 yet?  He has stated no dissatisfaction and I don’t think he has any.

Neil Gaiman has an essay about how the only adaptations of your own work you can really enjoy are the ones that are not even close to faithful. If they stay too close but don't quite pull it off, every little difference is a travesty, but if they're clearly telling a different story only adapted from yours, you can just enjoy it on its own terms.

I don't think GRRM has ever said anything like this, but I suspect he's come to a similar realization. Once he decided "the show is the show and the books are the books", he can enjoy the show as the show.

(Of course Gaiman learned this from Neverwhere, where he was the guy adapting his own work, and who made all the changes, which I wouldn't think would be that hard to take in any case…)

[ummester]

Way back in the 90s GRRM plans an epic fantasy trilogy - the ending of which is still redacted on his released notes. In writing the first 3 books he decides to expand to 5. D&D meet with GRRM in 2005, when Feast is released. HBO get rights to make show in 2007. GRRM decides to expand to 7 books. Season 1 airs 2010. Dance is released in 2011. Last 2 books still nowhere to be seen, with the show on it's second last season.

It seems pretty obvious to me that the ending GRRM has discussed with D&D is similar to whatever it was when he planned a trilogy. Something to do with Dany reaching Westeros and the Others - because they are the elements introduced earlier in his notes and not resolved. It also seems obvious D&D want to present that ending and be done with it.

It is arguable that books 4, 5 and 6 (if ever released) will be more or less filler, as seasons 5, 6 & 7 appear to be. Characters have been treading water for a very long time now.

Jon died, came back and? What? He has no meaning really,

Dany idled in Slavers Bay, eventually destroying it, when ultimately her only point in Essos was to grow powerful for return to Westeros.

Tyrion has been a bore since he killed his dad - at least book Tyrion did a little bit of confront his own hatred of himself.

Arya has been ridiculous since becoming 'no-one'.

Jamie is stuck perpetually on the verge of leaving Cersie.

Sansa is a perpetual 'student' of Little Finger.

It feels like things are happening, but nothing really is. The core characters are not really advancing. It seems GRRM is either putting off writing the ending he sold or is no longer sure it is the right way to go and D&D are frustrated that they can't just end it already.

[Apoplexy]

On 8/21/2017 at 8:01 AM, WhatIsDeadMayNeverLive said:

Bran will fight a mind battle with the NK and take control of Viserion to win the battle against the WW.

That would be cool! I'm waiting for Bran to fly.