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Pandean

Northern Lords Reaction and Jon's Fate

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Apologies if there's a thread on this already,

I was wondering of the Northern Lords reaction to Jon bending the knee (figurative at least, since he was kinda bedridden) to Dany?
 

I suspect they won't be happy at first, but they may come around eventually. (I can't imagine them, for all the bickering, turning away) Especially once Jon's parentage gets out.

It would be interesting though for such a divide among the Northern Lords and Jon (and whoever supports him).

What would that make him though? Would he become Lord of Winterfell? Would that stay as Sansa's domain? Or maybe he would go back to being a military commander, since he does that pretty well? Or some Southron title if his parentage is discovered?

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Once the Others invade, the North is fucked.  Jon/Dany are not stopping the army of the dead from ravaging the place, not after what we just saw the NK do.

So there won't be any proud Northern lords left in S8 to be offended at Jon bending the knee imo...so issue avoided.  Yay?

Edited by Ser Wun Wun

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36 minutes ago, Pandean said:

Apologies if there's a thread on this already,

I was wondering of the Northern Lords reaction to Jon bending the knee (figurative at least, since he was kinda bedridden) to Dany?
 

I suspect they won't be happy at first, but they may come around eventually. (I can't imagine them, for all the bickering, turning away) Especially once Jon's parentage gets out.

It would be interesting though for such a divide among the Northern Lords and Jon (and whoever supports him).

What would that make him though? Would he become Lord of Winterfell? Would that stay as Sansa's domain? Or maybe he would go back to being a military commander, since he does that pretty well? Or some Southron title if his parentage is discovered?

If they can come to terms with joining with the Wildings, they'll come to terms about Daenerys........

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I will be supremely disappointed if they just take it in their stride! But then I thought Jon bending the figurative knee was supremely stupid in the first place (some kind of guilt trip over the dragon I guess).

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7 minutes ago, Ser Wun Wun said:

Once the Others invade, the North is fucked.  Jon/Dany are not stopping the army of the dead from ravaging the place, not after what we just saw the NK do.

So there won't be any proud Northern lords left in S8 to be offended at Jon bending the knee imo...so issue avoided.  Yay?

Yay! ...Yay?

I'm sure not all the North will be dead, however. 

 

5 minutes ago, plastic throne said:

*unsheathes knife*

*stabs Jon*

*maintain eye contact*

"For the North"

Poor Jon. Every time.

3 minutes ago, Samwell_Tarly said:

If they can come to terms with joining with the Wildings, they'll come to terms about Daenerys........

I think it's less joining and more the "You gave up your Kingdom, the one WE chose you to rule, for her without consulting us?"

Considering how very much "We only follow Starks from now on" the Northern Lord rabble is

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1 minute ago, Mikkel said:

I will be supremely disappointed if they just take it in their stride! But then I thought Jon bending the figurative knee was supremely stupid in the first place (some kind of guilt trip over the dragon I guess).

I agree. Was like WTF JON NOOOOO

 

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9 minutes ago, Mikkel said:

I will be supremely disappointed if they just take it in their stride! But then I thought Jon bending the figurative knee was supremely stupid in the first place (some kind of guilt trip over the dragon I guess).

They will take it in their stride......eventually.

However I dont think it was all guilt. It was a compromise, they have put aside what matters to them to fight the ''real enemy''. Tormund basically said he should bend the knee and do whats right for his people. 

Daenerys just said she will fight and destory the NK no matter what, no catch, she'll do it. Jon did the right thing and ''bent the knee'', personally I didnt want him to bend the knee. This also helps fuel the love story thats happening too.

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Just now, Samwell_Tarly said:

They will take it in their stride......eventually.

However I dont think it was all guilt. It was a compromise, they have put aside what matters to them to fight the ''real enemy''. Tormund basically said he should bend the knee and do whats right for his people. 

Daenerys just said she will fight and destory the NK no matter what, no catch, she'll do it. Jon did the right thing and ''bent the knee'', personally I didnt want him to bend the knee. This also helps fuel the love story thats happening too.

Humm, but in my opinion Jon didn't put aside what matters to him - being king was not something he did for himself. By bending the knee to Dany, he just runs the risk of at least some Northern lords rebelling against their new Targaryen overlord and refusing to join the fight - the fight Dany just committed to.

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Dany should have proposed a political marriage even before they had the hots for each other. She ditched Daario so she'd be free to marry someone for political reasons. Who is she waiting for if not a guy who can deliver two of the five regions she didn't already have alliances with?

And I'm pretty sure the North would have a much easier time with a Stark who only bent the knee to become Prince Consort than one who bent the knee to become just a loyal subject.

So why didn't either Tyrion or Davos suggest that, instead of playing wingman and trying to wink-wink-nudge-nudge them into falling in love or lust with each other?

From an external point of view, I can understand that they want to do the love story, and the R+L=J reveal, before anyone even mentions marriage. But story-internally, I don't get why nobody even considered it.

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3 minutes ago, Samwell_Tarly said:

They will take it in their stride......eventually.

However I dont think it was all guilt. It was a compromise, they have put aside what matters to them to fight the ''real enemy''. Tormund basically said he should bend the knee and do whats right for his people. 

Daenerys just said she will fight and destory the NK no matter what, no catch, she'll do it. Jon did the right thing and ''bent the knee'', personally I didnt want him to bend the knee. This also helps fuel the love story thats happening too.

The only reason why he 'bent the knee' is for audience go like "aaaaaaaaaww, he bent the knee for her". I am 100% sure they weren't thinking beyond this, not even for a second.

Why would he realistically though - bend the knee, I don't know; he had her unconditional help for a fight with the white walkers already. They were bonding, true alliance was on a horizon (alliance, not vassal which is what they are now),... And he goes and do it... With northern lords already in turmoil over his departure and absence. I want them to stab him.

What kind of king throws off independence like that, seriously??

Edited by plastic throne

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2 minutes ago, plastic throne said:

The only reason why he 'bent the knee' is for audience go like "aaaaaaaaaww, he bent the knee for her". I am 100% sure they weren't thinking beyond this, not even for a second.

Why would he realistically though - bend the knee, I don't know; he had her unconditional help for a fight with the white walkers already. They were bonding, true alliance was on a horizon (alliance, not vassal which is what they are now),... And he goes and do it... With northern lords already in turmoil over his departure and absence. I want them to stab him, seriously.

What kind of king throws off independence like that, seriously??

I mean, Jon's never been the sharpest political knife in the drawer...

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2 minutes ago, Pandean said:

I mean, Jon's never been the sharpest political knife in the drawer...

Ain't that the truth... :tantrum:

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Just now, Pandean said:

I mean, Jon's never been the sharpest political knife in the drawer...

And this is exactly why show Jon should be killed off. Immediately.

Ever since they ran out of book material, Jon, de facto, works for the other team. He f*cks up everything he touches, literally. It's like, the writers were pissed about him being one of the more important characters (rather than Cersei) so they decided to f*ck him up real good by making him incompetent outside the whole 'prince that was promised' thing.

Basically, he was born lucky, that's it.

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The biggest problem for me is that no one actually thought of proposing a marriage. We know Dany is open for the idea, so Davos could have said... "OK, we need each other. How about we make an alliance by marriage?" That way we could evade all this nonsense with bending the knee.

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14 minutes ago, plastic throne said:

Ever since they ran out of book material, Jon, de facto, works for the other team. He f*cks up everything he touches, literally.

Before they ran out of book material, Jon was running of half-cocked because of the purple letter and mismanaging the political situation so badly that he got murdered by his own men. Just like in the books. It's a bit silly to blame D&D for ruining GRRM's political mastermind when he was always incompetent at everything except the immediate-term rally.

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21 minutes ago, Mikkel said:

Humm, but in my opinion Jon didn't put aside what matters to him - being king was not something he did for himself. By bending the knee to Dany, he just runs the risk of at least some Northern lords rebelling against their new Targaryen overlord and refusing to join the fight - the fight Dany just committed to.

Im not referring to him being king, he never wanted that, it was forced upon him and he doesnt really care for being KitN. But he does care about his people.

20 minutes ago, plastic throne said:

The only reason why he 'bent the knee' is for audience go like "aaaaaaaaaww, he bent the knee for her". I am 100% sure they weren't thinking beyond this, not even for a second.

Why would he realistically though - bend the knee, I don't know; he had her unconditional help for a fight with the white walkers already. They were bonding, true alliance was on a horizon (alliance, not vassal which is what they are now),... And he goes and do it... With northern lords already in turmoil over his departure and absence. I want them to stab him.

What kind of king throws off independence like that, seriously??

I agree somewhat to you to be honest. Yes he gained a no catch alliance and he could have settle for it. But from the start Daenerys was adamant that he should bend the knee before she pledged any allegiance and help to him. It was a compromise between the two. A statement to say that this is the most important. Jon also believes she will be a good ruler so this plays a part too.

But yes I agree there will be some turmoil but it paves a nice pathway for handing power of Winterfell/The North over to Sansa

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When it comes to politics Sansa seems the only Stark who knows some

 

as always Jon Snow knows nothing 

 

hopefully the northern lords won't rebel 

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7 minutes ago, falcotron said:

Before they ran out of book material, Jon was running of half-cocked because of the purple letter and mismanaging the political situation so badly that he got murdered by his own men. Just like in the books. It's a bit silly to blame D&D for ruining GRRM's political mastermind when he was always incompetent at everything except the immediate-term rally.

I know he's not Ned's kid but...damn is Jon Ned's kid.

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Just now, falcotron said:

Before they ran out of book material, Jon was running of half-cocked because of the purple letter and mismanaging the political situation so badly that he got murdered by his own men. Just like in the books. It's a bit silly to blame D&D for ruining GRRM's political mastermind when he was always incompetent at everything except the immediate-term rally.

Him mismanaging the political situation where you can't please everyone (exactly what happened) is nowhere near the incompetence of Battle of the Bastards, going on an adventure beyond the wall, giving NK a nuclear weapon and means pass/destroy the Wall, throwing away his kingdom's independence just like that, etc...

Also, since we're in there in the books, him advising Stannis and bringing Wildlings pass the wall made me think he's more visionary and more into long term than what you're stating/suggesting. But w/e, I have to make my peace with the show.

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