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DarkBastard

Plot Holes - Why...Maybe.

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45 minutes ago, DarkBastard said:

I think you're confusing genres.  Everything else is spot-on though!

Well no. Jaime's troops don't live in KL. They are Lannister soldiers from the Westerlands. Look at the armor. They are not staying inside KL because cities do not want an additional, literal army of mouths to feed inside the city proper. That and there is no room to house them. If they have anything its a camp outside the city with their own provisions. And based on what the Lannister troops said to Arya about how much KL sucks, why on god's green earth would they want to sleep there

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52 minutes ago, DarkBastard said:

A lot of speculation out there, but just from last nights episode off the top of my head:

 

Why did the skeletal wights explode but the partially fleshed one survive (when the white walker was killed)?

Where did the chains come from?

Why didn't the Night King kill Drogon?

Why did Sansa get a letter to go south?

Why isn't Bran providing more guidance?

If the Night King was waiting for the dragons (as most speculate), why did he attack when the rock was thrown?

How did Benjen know Jon was there and in trouble?

 

Granted, some of these may be answered in the coming episodes, but I doubt all of them.  And that's just from this week.

Why is convincing armiless Cersei in the south of an armistice a better use of your time than perching dragons on the wall and burning the approaching dead army?

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8 minutes ago, Lurid Jester said:

We know wightdom isn't a disease transmitted via bites/scratches.  As for why the NK didn't just raise Viserion like he did the dead at hardhome...  no idea. It bugged me too.  

 

Correct, "wightdom" is an icy magic of the WW, but how it works is an open question and has not been consistently applied with any known rules in the show.

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9 minutes ago, GrapefruitPerrier said:

I am not, this is from a Wiki of Ice and Fire, which I will take over many of the amateur articles out today:

"Wights are dead men or creatures raised up by the Others, seemingly when touched by the cold that accompanies them.[1] Anyone who falls against the Others must be burned, or else the dead will rise again as their thralls. Fear of their own dead becoming wights leads the free folk to burn them."

So, anyone killed by an Other should change - Other are WW - but is season one the Benjen troop changed in the ice cells, much later. Were each of them touched by a WW? Based on last night they should have changed immediately then. Why the wait, and what makes you so sure being killed by a wight does not make you a wight. Book or show sources please!!!!! I may well be wrong, but this is not a simple question. 

Just to clear up some things. The WW/Other has to touch (whether its touch or just raised I do not think is completely clarified) you to reanimate you not the wight. The wight can kill you then you will be reanimated by the WW/Other as their undead slaves. So just being killed by a wight is not enough there needs to be a WW/Other around to actually reanimate you.

In the first season they were already turned to wights before they were put in the ice cells. They were planted on the other side of the wall as bait to be taken across the wall. Then at night they "woke up" to carry out their plan of assassinating the Lord Commander Mormont. They were already changed to wights before they even crossed under the wall and they were just playing possum.

Also remember that was the first time we as viewers and anyone in universe for thousands of years were introduced to Wights so they did not have any reason to think they were undead. But they were put in the cells out of suspicion because 2 bodies just showed up in front of the Wall one morning. They killed the guards then went after Mormont.

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24 minutes ago, GrapefruitPerrier said:

I am not, this is from a Wiki of Ice and Fire, which I will take over many of the amateur articles out today:

"Wights are dead men or creatures raised up by the Others, seemingly when touched by the cold that accompanies them.[1] Anyone who falls against the Others must be burned, or else the dead will rise again as their thralls. Fear of their own dead becoming wights leads the free folk to burn them."

So, anyone killed by an Other should change - Other are WW - but is season one the Benjen troop changed in the ice cells, much later. Were each of them touched by a WW? Based on last night they should have changed immediately then. Why the wait, and what makes you so sure being killed by a wight does not make you a wight. Book or show sources please!!!!! I may well be wrong, but this is not a simple question. 

Killed by, not bitten by.  That is what you are confusing. But I don't think that is even required, I think they can turn anyone killed north of the wall.

Edited by DarkBastard

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1 minute ago, GrapefruitPerrier said:

Correct, "wightdom" is an icy magic of the WW, but how it works is an open question and has not been consistently applied with any known rules in the show.

It has been pretty consistent in never having implied it's a condition that can be transferred to others via bites or scratches. 

I admit that there were times that my fandom of zombie movies kept telling me that the heroes were screwed.  I had to remind myself that it's walkers effectively warging the dead.  

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13 minutes ago, Lurid Jester said:

As for why the NK didn't just raise Viserion like he did the dead at hardhome...  no idea. It bugged me too.  

 

I think (another plot hole) that he wanted to turn Viserion into a White Walker dragon rather than a wight dragon.  In order to do that he would have to touch him (like he did with Craster's sons).  Just a theory though.

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another plot hole, from Spooky Vision on twitter: "OK, Ravens can fly at 31 mph. Eastwatch to Dragonstone 1500 miles. It takes the bird 2 days to get there. Dragons are much faster."

I guess Jon and friends hung out on the island for several days...................or not.

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There's also the lack of horses issue. Someone might argue that the path was too steep for a horse. Unfortunately, this was not the case, since we later see that Jon arrives at the wall riding the horse of Benjen.

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4 minutes ago, DarkBastard said:

I think (another plot hole) that he wanted to turn Viserion into a White Walker dragon rather than a wight dragon.  In order to do that he would have to touch him (like he did with Craster's sons).  Just a theory though.

So the male babies have nothing to do with the creation of WW? Then what was that whole scene?

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So how long were Jon and the fellowship standing on that bit of land? It seemed to me that it was 12 hours. Is it possible for Gendry to run all the way back to Eastwatch and tell them to send a raven to Danny and for that raven to arrive at Dragonstone where Danny reads the note where she proceeds to mount her dragon and fly over Eastwatch to save Jon and co all in the space of 12 hours?

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6 minutes ago, GrapefruitPerrier said:

So the male babies have nothing to do with the creation of WW? Then what was that whole scene?

That is a deep rabbit hole, but the point I'm making is that at Hardhome the Night King raised all the wights by raising his hands.  He had to touch Craster's sons to change them into White Walkers.

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2 hours ago, DarkBastard said:

A lot of speculation out there, but just from last nights episode off the top of my head:

 

Why did the skeletal wights explode but the partially fleshed one survive (when the white walker was killed)?

Where did the chains come from?

Why didn't the Night King kill Drogon?

Why did Sansa get a letter to go south?

Why isn't Bran providing more guidance?

If the Night King was waiting for the dragons (as most speculate), why did he attack when the rock was thrown?

How did Benjen know Jon was there and in trouble?

 

Granted, some of these may be answered in the coming episodes, but I doubt all of them.  And that's just from this week.

Chains: No idea..

Drogon: he tried, but he didn't make it?

Sansa: I think it has something to do with the trap that Cersei is planning to do with Daenerys, and she want all her enemies together. Ofc the letter should be for Jon.. I mean how did she know that Jon wasn't there..

Bran: WHERE THE HELL IS BRAN? He is the most important charcter and he is doing nothing

NK-Dragons: No idea.. The last sec rescue isn't something we were used to see in got(a pat the rescue of Daenerys in Meereen)

Benjen: It was the same thing that happened with Bran and Meera.. I don't know why.. The only thing I can think of is that it the three eyed raven sent him..(maybe that's what happened the last time too)

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4 minutes ago, Kytheros said:

Chains could maybe have been created by the White Walkers out of magical ice.

Or they are just chains from a Wildlings village?

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6 minutes ago, Styl7 said:

Or they are just chains from a Wildlings village?

Yes. The same wildlings who had such a lack of good steel and iron that they made weapons from bone. 

I'd lean into the magic ice chains before believing the wildlings had a stash of chains... that they didn't use when they tried to take the wall. 

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1 minute ago, Lurid Jester said:

Yes. The same wildlings who had such a lack of good steel and iron that they made weapons from bone. 

I'd lean into the magic ice chains before believing the wildlings had a stash of chains... that they didn't use when they tried to take the wall. 

Fun fact, there were actually chains near the bottom of the lake from the first men and when the dragon went down dying it got itself caught in those chains, so the WW just had to pull the chains.
In case someone mistakes this for me being serious, I am not. 

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9 minutes ago, Lurid Jester said:

Yes. The same wildlings who had such a lack of good steel and iron that they made weapons from bone. 

I'd lean into the magic ice chains before believing the wildlings had a stash of chains... that they didn't use when they tried to take the wall. 

I thought that too..but I just wanted to mention that..

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35 minutes ago, btfu806 said:

Fun fact, there were actually chains near the bottom of the lake from the first men and when the dragon went down dying it got itself caught in those chains, so the WW just had to pull the chains.
In case someone mistakes this for me being serious, I am not. 

I still like it. :)

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