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Siding with the Night King

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On 8/21/2017 at 6:26 PM, falcotron said:

I still can't see this thread title without imagining a DIY show called Siding with the Night King.

Aluminum siding is a very durable finish, especially good in snowy climates. And believe me, even if you aren't worried about that yet, you will be soon. So I'm going to show you how to install it on you house. First, let me introduce my workers—that's a wight, that's another wight, and that's another wight. You don't really need 4 people to install siding, it's a job you can do on your own, but it does go faster with a few friends bribed with a 6-pack or raised from the dead. Now, the first thing you want to do…

Tune in next week to join Lady Stoneheart while she repairs that awful leak!

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8 hours ago, Deminelle said:

What if he missed Dany's dragon on purpose?

Dany's dragon was an easier, clearer shot - so it seems he did miss it on purpose. I guess he only did throw a spear at it after Jon had fallen in the water. But if he wanted to preserve Jon and get him south for some reason, why do the wights keep attacking him?

After Arya and No-one, I have little faith they are going for clever twists and set ups now- just dumb set pieces.

Edited by ummester

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I already asked this in another thread, but: Turning giants, bears, and dragons being no problem for the NK, did he actually revive the children of the forest who died in "The Door"? And would they be extra powerful wights?

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5 minutes ago, Ice C said:

I already asked this in another thread, but: Turning giants, bears, and dragons being no problem for the NK, did he actually revive the children of the forest who died in "The Door"? And would they be extra powerful wights?

Didn't most of them get blowed up real good in Leaf's suicide trap, so there's not much to revive?

If not, there seems to be a good chance he could revive them. Sure, they're special in that they're the species who created him, but then dragons are pretty special too, and, as you say, Viserion was no problem.

As for extra powerful, I don't think so. Their bodies don't seem to have any physical powers beyond humans, and wights seem to retain little of the mind of their former selves.

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11 minutes ago, Ice C said:

I already asked this in another thread, but: Turning giants, bears, and dragons being no problem for the NK, did he actually revive the children of the forest who died in "The Door"? And would they be extra powerful wights?

I don't know if we can answer that yet. Bears and I guess even giants are species without 'magic'. I'm not sure if the same rules apply to the children who are known to have created the NK/WW.

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On 8/21/2017 at 10:12 AM, Frances Bean Corbray said:

 

What's the hurry?  He's been waiting 8000 years, what's a couple more?

Besides, his enemy keeps coming to him and inadvertently making him stronger.

:devil:

 

Yeah about that... what has he been up to for the past 8000 years? Maybe that's where he got the chain?

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4 minutes ago, TywinBestCharacter said:

Yeah about that... what has he been up to for the past 8000 years?

He had a lot of reading to catch up on. But finally, he caught up on everything except his favorite series, where the last two books are a few millennia late. So he's finally decided to build an army and march on a town in the Dornish deserts called Santa Fe so he can go all Misery on the author.

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I'm really bugged by the Night King's progress towards the Wall, not least of which being: why the hell has it taken so long?

The other big issue is, the Night King had to have had a method by which he intended to get past the Wall. Judging from what we've seen, though, he had nothing. Literally nothing. There is no plan to get past the Wall. In which case, why did he ever even bother getting out of bed? Or was the plan to just mill about north of the Wall until someone flew a dragon north? Was that really the plan? Because if so, that's stupid. But then again, judging from GoT lately, stupid writing seems to be the name of the game lately.

Now, what WOULD make sense is if the Night King had a plan to get past the Wall, almost succeeded, but was stopped at the last moment by Jon and Daenerys. But in the process the Night King kills Viserion, giving him another, unexpected means of getting past the Wall after his original plan failed. Now that would be good storytelling. For instance, I saw a theory that the Night King was waiting for the water along the coast to freeze over, in which case his army could then simply walk around the Wall. That would give the dragons a reason to be there, as they'd torch the frozen waters to drown the Wights and force the rest to retreat back to land. Then the Night King could kill Viserion, and boom, now he'd have a fire-breathing dragon which would give him the option of burning down the Wall instead.

That would've been a lot better than what we did get, which basically amounts to the Night King spending DECADES amassing an army and marching for years all over the Land of Always Winter and Wildling territories, hoping a dragon would drop into his lap so he could finally go south.

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52 minutes ago, Thor Odinson said:

I'm really bugged by the Night King's progress towards the Wall, not least of which being: why the hell has it taken so long?

The other big issue is, the Night King had to have had a method by which he intended to get past the Wall. Judging from what we've seen, though, he had nothing. Literally nothing. There is no plan to get past the Wall. In which case, why did he ever even bother getting out of bed? Or was the plan to just mill about north of the Wall until someone flew a dragon north? Was that really the plan? Because if so, that's stupid. But then again, judging from GoT lately, stupid writing seems to be the name of the game lately.

Now, what WOULD make sense is if the Night King had a plan to get past the Wall, almost succeeded, but was stopped at the last moment by Jon and Daenerys. But in the process the Night King kills Viserion, giving him another, unexpected means of getting past the Wall after his original plan failed. Now that would be good storytelling. For instance, I saw a theory that the Night King was waiting for the water along the coast to freeze over, in which case his army could then simply walk around the Wall. That would give the dragons a reason to be there, as they'd torch the frozen waters to drown the Wights and force the rest to retreat back to land. Then the Night King could kill Viserion, and boom, now he'd have a fire-breathing dragon which would give him the option of burning down the Wall instead.

That would've been a lot better than what we did get, which basically amounts to the Night King spending DECADES amassing an army and marching for years all over the Land of Always Winter and Wildling territories, hoping a dragon would drop into his lap so he could finally go south.

While I agree with this in certain respects, I'd argue the biggest annoyance in regards to the NK's progress towards the Wall is GRRM and D & D and the story they are telling.  Obviously you're not gonna have the NK get past the Wall in 1 season lol, then you have no show.  So you kind of have to him stalling around like an idiot with no plan.  And at least in the show we have gotten episodes like Hardhome that show the NK doing something lol.  In the books it just seems like he's been chilling for years now.  But I also understand that he is prevented from actually going towards the Wall because he can't get past it without some help.  He either needs the Horn of Joramun or a dragon or some other magical mcguffin to bypass the Wall's magic. 

I'm really sort of digging this Night King is a greenseer theory and that he was somehow able to see this coming or trick Bran into seeing this coming so that Bran would send Jon which would send Dany and her dragons following.   

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I still don't understand why a wall of ice is an effective deterrent to an ice wizard - even in the books.

Sure, it has magic inside of it but all we know that magic does is open special ancient gates for Sam. What else does the magic do? Some suppose it stops the dead passing but we have already seen 2 wights south of the wall. The NK and White Walkers aren't dead, so why would it stop them? Likewise if it's the same magic that Leaf had at the entrance to the tree cave, it only stopped the skelebones, not the NK and WWs.

Actually (goes to check season 1) the wight that attack Mormont at castle black didn't have bright blue eyes. Will be interesting to see what the wights eyes look like next episode. I wonder if all the wall does is stop people from controlling the dead?

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The NK has a plan for each and every one of us.  The NK moves in mysterious ways.  It is not the position of humans to understand the NK.  If we did then we would be as the NK and we are not.  NK does answer prayers.  The answer is most often 'no'.  NK wants to reduce the top marginal income tax rate and reduce the regulations that hinder the growth of small businesses.  NK has a fair but strict immigration policy.  NK contains no gluten.  NK promotes good cholesterol while reducing bad cholesterol.  NK is fighting global warming.  I saw the NK raise the dead at Hardhome.  He was beautiful.

 

Seriously though...

NK has been plotting for 10K years.  Winter is here but winter is not in full swing.  They are still growing crops around High Garden, for example.  NK may bring the storm but I don't think he planned to make his big push south until the weather turned a bit cooler and winter reached the Crown lands.

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1 hour ago, Col Cinders said:

The NK has a plan for each and every one of us.  The NK moves in mysterious ways.  It is not the position of humans to understand the NK.  If we did then we would be as the NK and we are not.  NK does answer prayers.  The answer is most often 'no'.  NK wants to reduce the top marginal income tax rate and reduce the regulations that hinder the growth of small businesses.  NK has a fair but strict immigration policy.  NK contains no gluten.  NK promotes good cholesterol while reducing bad cholesterol.  NK is fighting global warming.  I saw the NK raise the dead at Hardhome.  He was beautiful.

 

Seriously though...

NK has been plotting for 10K years.  Winter is here but winter is not in full swing.  They are still growing crops around High Garden, for example.  NK may bring the storm but I don't think he planned to make his big push south until the weather turned a bit cooler and winter reached the Crown lands.

Isn't the NK supposed to bring the cold, rather than wait for it?

As for the NKs political plan/leaning, I think he is extremely libertarian and progressive - and he's as far left as you can go, he's basically communist.

Every wight is treated equally, no matter their ethnicity, age or sexuality.

He is obviously opposed the feudalism and elitism rife with the warm bloods in the south.

He seems to be striving for a complete open borders policy, wanting to bring down a wall that divided the warm from the cold.

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The White Walkers may bring the cold and storms with them, but that doesn't mean that it spreads and intensifies immediately, especially beyond their immediate environs, that is, they might not be able to project the weather changes South very quickly - especially with the Wall standing in the way.

 

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I really thought they were going with the whole NK put a magical mark on Bran and can now follow him despite magic thing. And Bran has passed South of the Wall. But I guess they're going with a dragon instead, wouldn't want to make your plot points too subtle.

Edited by Maid So Fair

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1 hour ago, Maid So Fair said:

I really thought they were going with the whole NK put a magical mark on Bran and can now follow him despite magic thing. And Bran has passed South of the Wall. But I guess they're going with a dragon instead, wouldn't want to make your plot points too subtle.

Bran is already hated enough as a character.  No need to give fans yet another reason to hate him:D.

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12 hours ago, ummester said:

Isn't the NK supposed to bring the cold, rather than wait for it?

I think the NK's ability to bring cold depends upon the potency of his powers. The climate in the world of westeros is somehow connected to magic, which is why winter lasts several years. 

When dragons were brought back to the world, it could've bolstered the NK powers somehow. Which is why this is the moment he chose to attack. Bloodraven went north of the wall several years ago, we don't know how or why yet. It is possible he anticipated this surge in the NK's power and wanted to prepare to fight him.

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13 hours ago, ummester said:

As for the NKs political plan/leaning, I think he is extremely libertarian and progressive - and he's as far left as you can go, he's basically communist.

Let's not create a false equivalency between the NK's socialism and communism :D

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2 hours ago, Tagganaro said:

Bran is already hated enough as a character.  No need to give fans yet another reason to hate him:D.

Poor Bran 9000. He can never get the human emotions correctly pegged down. :D

 

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16 hours ago, ummester said:

As for the NKs political plan/leaning, I think he is extremely libertarian and progressive - and he's as far left as you can go, he's basically communist.

 

3 hours ago, Apoplexy said:

Let's not create a false equivalency between the NK's socialism and communism :D

I don't think he's a communist or a socialist. He's a left-anarchist, who in our world would be writing essays on c4ss.org explaining why once we tear down all the walls and all the governments the free market will bring equality to all without any lords or corporations or any other non-local forces being able to reestablish a foothold.

But he's run into the same problem as the Bolsheviks anyway—the idea of a vanguard of the people (his White Walkers and himself) clearing the way and then vanishing sounds nice, but it isn't actually going to work. In fact, it's even worse for him, because if his vanguard really does wither away, all of the wights die. So, even if he can navigate past the Thermidorian reaction and the Napoleonic threat in a way that Lenin failed to figure out, he's still got state power that he can't dismiss, and that's ultimately going to lead to the same result.

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19 hours ago, Tagganaro said:

While I agree with this in certain respects, I'd argue the biggest annoyance in regards to the NK's progress towards the Wall is GRRM and D & D and the story they are telling.  Obviously you're not gonna have the NK get past the Wall in 1 season lol, then you have no show.  So you kind of have to him stalling around like an idiot with no plan.  And at least in the show we have gotten episodes like Hardhome that show the NK doing something lol.  In the books it just seems like he's been chilling for years now.  But I also understand that he is prevented from actually going towards the Wall because he can't get past it without some help.  He either needs the Horn of Joramun or a dragon or some other magical mcguffin to bypass the Wall's magic. 

I'm really sort of digging this Night King is a greenseer theory and that he was somehow able to see this coming or trick Bran into seeing this coming so that Bran would send Jon which would send Dany and her dragons following.   

To be honest, in the books there is no indication whatsoever than the Others are invading Westeros. They were clearly attacking wildlings and the Watch at their side of the wall, but, so far, the plan to attack the Wall is just in Jon and others´ minds and based on old legends.

19 hours ago, ummester said:

I still don't understand why a wall of ice is an effective deterrent to an ice wizard - even in the books.

Sure, it has magic inside of it but all we know that magic does is open special ancient gates for Sam. What else does the magic do? Some suppose it stops the dead passing but we have already seen 2 wights south of the wall. The NK and White Walkers aren't dead, so why would it stop them? Likewise if it's the same magic that Leaf had at the entrance to the tree cave, it only stopped the skelebones, not the NK and WWs.

Actually (goes to check season 1) the wight that attack Mormont at castle black didn't have bright blue eyes. Will be interesting to see what the wights eyes look like next episode. I wonder if all the wall does is stop people from controlling the dead?

Once again, not clearly established in the books yet. Many people have theorized about this, and I am myself half convinced that it is more to the Others than a mindless ice zombie army hellbent on destroying all human life.

But I digress. Long Unlive for the Night King!!!!

Edited by Armand Gargalen

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