WHats up with the lightbringer??

[Here's Looking At You, Kid]

4 hours ago, Helen of Troy said:

Stannis had a fake.  Gendry will forge a new Lightbringer when he sticks a sword through Arya's chest.  I hope this is what happens.

There is a reason why the show brought back a blacksmith.  Arya is a good candidate for his Nissa Nissa.  I can't say it would bother me.  The girl who collects the faces of her victims is some kind of messed up.  It would be totally unrealistic for Arya to come close to even normal within a lifetime, she's so messed up.  Don't misunderstand, the show might do it just out of fan service to her fans but that would be stupid storytelling.  It won't even deserve the label of plot hole, it'll just be extremely stupid writing on the show's part to even try to portray Arya as a decent person.  Arya dying to forge a sword is fair atonement for her many sins.

[jandslegate]

What about if Jon were to draw Longclaw from a dragon? Like one that conveniently just became an enemy? 

 

[falcotron]

1 hour ago, jandslegate said:

What about if Jon were to draw Longclaw from a dragon? Like one that conveniently just became an enemy? 

When the stars bleed and the cold winds blow, a warrior shall draw from the fire a burning sword. That sword will be Lightbringer. The one who draws it will be Azor Ahai reborn.

If Jon stabs Viserion, who bursts into flame, and Jon draws his sword back and it's transformed into a sword of living fire, I think it would be pretty hard for anyone to question his credentials as AAR.

Then again, at that point I assume he'd be seconds away from a one-on-one swordfight with Viserion's rider, so nobody would have much time to question his credentials in the first place before it ceased to matter one way or the other.

[ShadowKitteh]

1 hour ago, falcotron said:

When the stars bleed and the cold winds blow, a warrior shall draw from the fire a burning sword. That sword will be Lightbringer. The one who draws it will be Azor Ahai reborn.

If Jon stabs Viserion, who bursts into flame, and Jon draws his sword back and it's transformed into a sword of living fire, I think it would be pretty hard for anyone to question his credentials as AAR.

Then again, at that point I assume he'd be seconds away from a one-on-one swordfight with Viserion's rider, so nobody would have much time to question his credentials in the first place before it ceased to matter one way or the other.

I totally love that, except Viserion should shatter when coming in contact with Valyrian steel at this point. I'm assuming they gave him a walker eye instead of a wight eye for a reason. I'm assuming he was almost dead - otherwise, no need for the chains - just raise him like all the bodies at Hardhome. 

I think Jon is AAR & Dany + Dragons = Lightbringer. The forging was bringing them together north of the Wall, and Dany's heart was stabbed by Viserion's fall..It's also when they finally fell ... just as Show House of the Undying showed she'd find her Sun & Stars again - when you're at  the top of the world (North), all directions are South, and East & West are wherever you say they are. Rivers run dry because they're ice, and mountains of snow blow like leaves in the wind. She will also have Jon's baby.... It's who Drogo was holding in that hut. At least that's what works in my head.

 

[falcotron]

31 minutes ago, ShadowKitteh said:

I totally love that, except Viserion should shatter when coming in contact with Valyrian steel at this point.

OK, but if (as you kind of have to assume for jandslegate's idea to make any sense in the first place) Viserion is a fire-breathing White Flyer, then all that fire in its belly has to go somewhere when it shatters, which probably means at least an impressive transient fireball, even if shattered walker bits aren't flammable (I have no idea whether they are). And that ought to be good enough to count as drawing from a fire, right?jandsl egajtejandsl

[ShadowKitteh]

58 minutes ago, falcotron said:

OK, but if (as you kind of have to assume for jandslegate's idea to make any sense in the first place) Viserion is a fire-breathing White Flyer, then all that fire in its belly has to go somewhere when it shatters, which probably means at least an impressive transient fireball, even if shattered walker bits aren't flammable (I have no idea whether they are). And that ought to be good enough to count as drawing from a fire, right?jandsl egajtejandsl

Ice/Walker Dragon technology/zoelogy cannot really be squared in my head. Let's start with how I think ASOIAF Dragon technology/zoology works: 

• Fire needs fuel and oxygen.   
• Dragonfire is created when the fuel (dragon bile?) meets air.  
• Dragonfire shoots a far distance, but unless it comes in contact with more fuel, something to burn, it will dissipate. 
• Walkers melt into a puddle in the books/shatter in the show = H²O.

So.... all that shattered ice comes in contact with all that fire, and becomes steam with some hot water falling... Not knowing the chemical makeup of how dragon technology works because they're part magic so I'm okay with that.... just thinking that fire needs fuel and oxygen. If you just have oxygen, there'd be a fast, all-directions backdraft flash that would instantly dissipate not causing much, if any damage. If it doesn't all turn instantly to steam, the ground might get wet. There's probably more dragon than bile.

That's if the flammability part happens in the stomach or wherever it's stored, which would make sense how Viserion dropped a bit of fire and blood when he was hit - but the fire part didn't last all the way down like the blood did.

There's got to be something else... "from the fire, a burning sword." OH! 

ok .... This is convoluted in my head, but then I should have been asleep hours ago... 

There will come a day after a long summer when the stars bleed and the cold breath of darkness falls heavy on the world. In this dread hour a warrior shall draw from the fire a burning sword. And that sword shall be Lightbringer, the Red Sword of Heroes, and he who clasps it shall be Azor Ahai come again, and the darkness shall flee before him.

Long summer when the stars bleed: Yup, that happened... not confusing at all.

The cold breath of darkness falls heavy on the world: Winter is here.

Draw from the fire a burning sword: What if Jon is forging Dany into a more formidable person/weapon/Queen. He's calming her and focusing her.. drawing her from the fire of her own rage... into a more laser-focused empathetic and magnanimous leader/weapon. 

She just sharpened her entire existence on that rescue mission. She now knows the enemy. She's focused on the target. 

Targaryen colors are black and Red. Red sword of heroes = Dany + dragons = Lightbringer.

That makes sense in my head, anyway. 

 

[falcotron]

9 minutes ago, ShadowKitteh said:

That's if the flammability part happens in the stomach or wherever it's stored, which would make sense how Viserion dropped a bit of fire and blood when he was hit - but the fire part didn't last all the way down like the blood did.

That's the thing—it doesn't have to last all the way down if Jon is stabbing the dragon close-up rather than killing it at a distance as the NK did; it just has to be there for him to pull the sword out of.

9 minutes ago, ShadowKitteh said:

Dany + dragons = Lightbringer.

Sure, this forum is full of metaphorical Lightbringer possibilities—Jon, Dany, dragons, Dany+dragons, Night Watch (not so good anymore), Wildlings, etc. They mostly make sense (many of them are based on the original AA forging rather than the AAR prophecy, but I'm not sure if that's a fatal flaw).

But jandslegate's idea gives us a literal Lightbringer, which is a lot less common—and a lot more impressive for a visual medium. I don't think it's actually all that likely, but it's still fun to think about.

[Ser Petyr Parker]

12 hours ago, Lurid Jester said:

You sure?  I mean, were talking about prophecy and fable here.  A 1000+ year old game of telephone can change a story about a dude making his sword burst into flame with blood magic, into a story about the last hero wielding a magic sword called Lightbringer. 

People assume Lightbringer is a sword because they expect it to be a sword.  Fantasy stories have magic swords. 

Those people are pulling a Melisandre.  

In the books this happens in weeks. Characters hear stories of what's happening in other parts of Westeros, and half of them involve the wrong person or magic. With the right winner, history might say Robb Stark commanded an army of wolves and could turn into one himself. You might look back and imagine the world used to be far more fantastic than it is now. These tales almost seem like clues...

[Ser Petyr Parker]

5 hours ago, ShadowKitteh said:

I'm assuming they gave him a walker eye instead of a wight eye for a reason.

I don't think there's a difference in the eyes. Human wights seem to just have human eyes, but with a blue glow. "Vicerion" seemed to just have a dragon eye with a blue glow. The WWs do have different eyes to wights, but presumably that's because they're more than just a magic reanimated human.

[W@rlock]

They needed weapons that could kill wights no?

I cant remember exactly, but first with the bear the final hit is given by Jorah with a Dagger (a terrible weapon to fight a bear with), but later i noted that the dagger seemed to be made of  Dragonglass.

The small axe Tormund had also seemed a Dragonglass Axe.

In the lake when the water froze, The Hound used first Gendry's hammer and it didn't worked, but then he started to use knives. I Can't remember right now, but I think those were also Dragonglass knives..

So that leaves Jon with Longclaw made of Valyryan Steel (can kill even White Walkers) and the other two. Maybe those flaming swords are really ablaze by blood and prayer and can kill wights...

[Rohlin_the_Wretched]

17 hours ago, NexivRed said:

So Jon's wang is Lightbringer once he's pulled it out of Daenerys, and he's the wielding warrior of it. 

Lol. 

The only problem is Tormund has seen Jon's wang and said it was small ... it would need to be long for to be wielded as a weapon!

[falcotron]

38 minutes ago, Rohlin_the_Wretched said:

The only problem is Tormund has seen Jon's wang and said it was small ... it would need to be long for to be wielded as a weapon!

We saw that Jorah's little dragonglass dagger worked better than Gendry's massive hammer. So, at least as far as the dead are concerned, it's not the size, it's how you use it.

But then Dany isn't the dead, and didn't she just say "He's too little for me"?

[Rohlin_the_Wretched]

4 minutes ago, falcotron said:

But then Dany isn't the dead, and didn't she just say "He's too little for me"?

Well done sir!  Dany must have x-ray vision.  Women are always obsessed with the size ...

[Illiterati]

17 hours ago, Here's Looking At You, Kid said:

There is a reason why the show brought back a blacksmith.  Arya is a good candidate for his Nissa Nissa.  I can't say it would bother me.  The girl who collects the faces of her victims is some kind of messed up.  It would be totally unrealistic for Arya to come close to even normal within a lifetime, she's so messed up.  Don't misunderstand, the show might do it just out of fan service to her fans but that would be stupid storytelling.  It won't even deserve the label of plot hole, it'll just be extremely stupid writing on the show's part to even try to portray Arya as a decent person.  Arya dying to forge a sword is fair atonement for her many sins.

Tell me about Arya's many sins.  Who did she murder that wasn't a case of just retribution?

[falcotron]

23 hours ago, Rohlin_the_Wretched said:

Well done sir!  Dany must have x-ray vision.  Women are always obsessed with the size ...

If you think about it, most of the men Dany's seen since puberty have been flamboyant Qaathi merchants and Free Cities sellswords, Ghiscari sex slaves, Dothraki warriors—men who dress to either display or exaggerate their assets. Other than the Unsullied, they all probably have pretty obvious bulges. But Westerosi noble male fashion seems to be more about modesty.

So maybe Dany's just assuming that if she can't see a bulge, there must not be much to see.

Which could also explain poor Jorah never getting anywhere with her.