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Danny-

Cersei's invitation.

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9 minutes ago, Deminelle said:

Ah, but Sansa is the head of Winterfell in the eyes of Cersei. Jon is nothing. Jon and Dany will be going to KL without invitation.

but that would mean that Cersei knows that Jon went off to visit Daenerys. She knows that he has been declared a king. I doubt that Jon / Sansa would kindly inform Cersei that Jon is sailing on one ship so Cersei could attack him and kill him.

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38 minutes ago, Nerevanin said:

but that would mean that Cersei knows that Jon went off to visit Daenerys. She knows that he has been declared a king. I doubt that Jon / Sansa would kindly inform Cersei that Jon is sailing on one ship so Cersei could attack him and kill him.

But does Cersei acknowledge the King in the North? Dany didn't. There is no KitN for Cersei, only lady/lord of the Winterfell.

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I thought the invitation was for the king of the north. And since he isnt present, then the warden of the north is next in line. Also Sansa said she aint going anywhere near Cerscei for whatever the fucking reason. So she is sending Birenne in her behalf.

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1 hour ago, Charlie Hustle said:

I thought the invitation was for the king of the north.

No, it's clearly destined to HER. "I am invited…"

It could be an invitation to the "Wight demo" party (in this case the sender knows that Jon will be present), or a trap orchestrated by Littlefinger (who knows she will decline and send Brienne in her place).

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My thoughts were that Cersei has invited every other powerful player to the meeting that was supposed to be between her and Dany, and she has schemed something to get rid of all her enemies at once.

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On 21.08.2017 at 8:10 PM, Danny- said:

 

i think she's planning another sept of baelor-like plot without jaime knowing.

They are not idiots. Especially Tyrion isn't that idiot, and Varys. Even Margaery figured it out but High Septon's men didn't allow her to leave in time. Especially now that they knew Cersei already did something like that before, they would never meet with her in a place where she would decide.

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Unrelated question: Why didn't Cersei invite Littlefinger? He is pretty much the acting Lord of the Vale and he even pledged his loyalty to the Crown in Season 5. Wouldn't she want to see to his betrayal?

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1 hour ago, Erkan12 said:

They are not idiots. Especially Tyrion isn't that idiot, and Varys. Even Margaery figured it out but High Septon's men didn't allow her to leave in time. Especially now that they knew Cersei already did something like that before, they would never meet with her in a place where she would decide.

Tyrions is trusting jaime but jaime's character has changed imo.

he's become cersei's puppet ,and now with telling him that she's pregnant with his child she's established full control over him.

i think tyrion suggesting a meeting with cersei's was very stupid.the tyrion we know won't do that.

Something is wrong or fishy or the writing has gone way downhill.Or not and D&D are preparing is for something cool.

edit : but i'm certain there's a meeting because someone mentioned on this forum that the trailer for e7 proves it.

Edited by Danny-

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1 hour ago, Ice Walker said:

Unrelated question: Why didn't Cersei invite Littlefinger? He is pretty much the acting Lord of the Vale and he even pledged his loyalty to the Crown in Season 5. Wouldn't she want to see to his betrayal?

This ^ is what makes me think the "meeting" was orchestrated by LF. Ayra will immediately suspect that it was orchestrated and be furious with Sansa for sending Brienne away, thus furthering the divide between the sisters. 

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4 hours ago, Deminelle said:

But does Cersei acknowledge the King in the North? Dany didn't. There is no KitN for Cersei, only lady/lord of the Winterfell.

Cersei may not acknowledge Jon as a king but that doesn't change a thing about him leading the North. And if Cersei doesn't acknowledge Jon, why should she acknowledge Sansa? Sansa is an enemy of the Crown, wanted for regicide, later marrying another rebel / enemy of the Crown and currently she sides with yet another rebel / enemy of the Crown.

 

2 hours ago, Ice Walker said:

Unrelated question: Why didn't Cersei invite Littlefinger? He is pretty much the acting Lord of the Vale and he even pledged his loyalty to the Crown in Season 5. Wouldn't she want to see to his betrayal?

HUGE plot hole. Ever since Ep1 when Cersei was listing her enemies and allies and totally forgot about LF.

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3 hours ago, Ice Walker said:

Unrelated question: Why didn't Cersei invite Littlefinger? He is pretty much the acting Lord of the Vale and he even pledged his loyalty to the Crown in Season 5. Wouldn't she want to see to his betrayal?

From a formal diplomatic point of view, Robin is the Lord of the Vale, and LF is just some vassal of his who's apparently sworn allegiance to Jon along with most of Robin's other vassals. So if Jon and Robin are both party to the peace, that should be enough to guarantee LF won't throw a spanner in the works.

Of course in practice, this is nuts. Diplomacy following the proper traditions and legal formulas has clearly become almost completely irrelevant at this point; what they need is to get the actual people who could potentially cause problems in the room, so they can see that all of those people are sold on the agreement, the way kings had to do in the days before medieval diplomacy evolved. As the actual guy who can move the entire Vale army wherever he wants, whether he legally ought to have that authority or not, LF needs to be there.

But the show often seems to forget how much Westerosi tradition has broken down. There's no Small Council, no Lords Paramount in half the realms, no formal decrees being issued, no judgments being heard, etc. And if the writers don't realize that, neither do their characters. So, I wouldn't be too surprised if they just act as if these are normal times, and send an invite to Robin and leave LF out of it.

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1 hour ago, Nerevanin said:

Cersei may not acknowledge Jon as a king but that doesn't change a thing about him leading the North.

Exactly. Cersei surely doesn't acknowledge Dany as Queen of the Seven Kingdoms, but she's inviting Dany. The whole point of this conference is to find a way to temporarily set aside all of these disputes, without having to agree on how they're resolved.

Whatever protocol they come up with to allow Cersei to avoid either confirming or denying Dany as Queen, the exact same thing will work with Jon. (Well, as it turns out, it won't be relevant for Jon because he's decided not to be a King anymore, but it would have worked with Jon.) And something related with work with Sansa.

And of course Cersei will either violate that protocol, or apply it sarcastically, anyway, and Tyrion will have to hold Dany back from responding, but Jon won't care at all, and Sansa might care but she isn't going to be there.

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32 minutes ago, falcotron said:

From a formal diplomatic point of view, Robin is the Lord of the Vale, and LF is just some vassal of his who's apparently sworn allegiance to Jon along with most of Robin's other vassals. So if Jon and Robin are both party to the peace, that should be enough to guarantee LF won't throw a spanner in the works.

No, I don't mean the formal way at all and I really doubt she had invited Robin Arryn. Littlefinger promised Cersei the support of the Vale and swore that the Lion banners will fly above Winterfell if he is named Warden of the North. Cersei agrees and tells she will get Tommen to sign a Royal decree.

Fast forward, Littlefinger has pledged for House Stark for all the "realm" to hear about it. Cersei holds grudges against everyone who crosses her. She even got angry and said that she will flay Roose & Ramsay for harboring Sansa. I found it odd that she just forgets about him.

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1 hour ago, Ice Walker said:

Fast forward, Littlefinger has pledged for House Stark for all the "realm" to hear about it. Cersei holds grudges against everyone who crosses her. She even got angry and said that she will flay Roose & Ramsay for harboring Sansa. I found it odd that she just forgets about him.

I don't know that she's forgotten about him, just because she doesn't think he's important for the armistice meeting.

Of course we don't know exactly what her big plan is, but under most evil Cersei plans I can imagine, inviting Littlefinger to the armistice doesn't buy her anything.

For example, let's assume she intends to wholeheartedly agree to the armistice, send all of the Lannister forces (which aren't too many men, at this point) to the Wall to help fight the dead, and then hire the Golden Company to sack Dragonstone and Winterfell while everyone else is busy with the dead (and while her total naval domination ensures they couldn't turn back even if they weren't). In that case, leaving LF sitting comfortably in Winterfell for now makes sense. She'll deal with the little weasel when Harry Strickland brings him south in chains.

And until she is ready to deal with him, why not act like he's beneath her notice? After all, everyone seems to know everyone else's motivations by this point in the show (even if I'm not always sure how that happened), so she knows that he desperately wants to be recognized as a player.

(Of course the show has some extra-diegetic reasons for this. They've made LF into Sansa's problem, and they know they're going to have the Starks take care of him before Cersei could ever have any important interaction with him again, and they don't plan any big surprises there, so showing Cersei talk about LF would just be a waste of precious minutes to them. But ignore all that, and it makes sense in-universe anyway.)

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20 hours ago, falcotron said:

I assumed it was the Army of the Dead ceasefire meeting, yeah. As far as I know, they didn't say anything about it, but it would make sense for Tyrion and Jaime to have invited all the Lords Paramount, to make sure everyone's going to go along with whatever they negotiate. (Plus, it might encourage the two Queens to act like diplomats.)

If I've guessed right, think the list of invitations looks like this:

  • Sansa Stark, Lady of Winterfell
  • Robin Arryn, Lord Paramount of the Vale
  • Euron Greyjoy, (Title-To-Be-Negotiated) of the Iron Islands
  • ??? Sand, Likely Princess of Dorne But Who Knows?
  • The Estate of Stannis Baratheon, Lord Paramount of Stormlands
  • Resident, The Reach

Plus 87 Frey daughters, and whichever one shows up first gets in to represent the Riverlands.

If someone would release poor Edmure from jail, he could be there to represent House Tully, as well as Lord Paramount of the Twins because he would obviously claim that for the Tullys. 

Wouldn't LF need to be there with Robin since Robin is still not of age?

The Reach doesn't need a representative because it effectively belongs to the Lannisters now.

It seems unlikely that the meeting is a response to Cersei's first summons because everyone who was going to respond already did at the beginning of the season.

It seems more likely to me that Cersei is using Dany and Tyrion's request for a cease fire to discuss the threat of the AotD as a way to:

1) buy time to rebuild her army with mercenaries

2) try to get the dragons within range of newly constructed Scorpions

3) trap her enemies? - although that would be stupid of her because like Dany's not gonna bring her armies....but no one said Cersei was brilliant

Someone suggested Sansa made up the summons in order to have an excuse to send Brienne off and foil LF's plan.  While it is quite conceivable she would send her somewhere, I don't think she would send her all the way to KL (the literal lion's den) if it wasn't legitimate.  She'd be gone for a couple of months at least and Brienne is her most trusted protector and the closest thing she has to a friend.

Edited by White_Winter_Raven

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37 minutes ago, White_Winter_Raven said:

If someone would release poor Edmure from jail, he could be there to represent House Tully, as well as Lord Paramount of the Twins because he would obviously claim that for the Tullys. 

Edmure is a self-confessed traitor. His house has been attainted. He's not legally anything, much less Lord Paramount.

And who would want him there? Certainly not Cersei. Jaime might feel bad that he promised Edmure a life as a noble hostage but then let Walder dump him in a cell, but making him Lord Paramount is a bit of an overreaction to correcting that wrong. On the other side, Dany has no idea who he is. Tyrion—I could see him maybe suggesting after Dany has won that they strip the Freys and appoint Edmure as LP, but it would be silly to try to insist on that during the armistice meeting. Sansa might argue for Edmure, but she's not going.

37 minutes ago, White_Winter_Raven said:

Wouldn't LF need to be there with Robin since Robin is still not of age?

Didn't they say something last season about his 16th nameday approaching? I figured that's why LF had to rush and use the Vale armies now, because he wouldn't be regent anymore soon. But honestly, even if I'm remembering right, I have no idea if his nameday has come yet. So maybe.

37 minutes ago, White_Winter_Raven said:

The Reach doesn't need a representative because it effectively belongs to the Lannisters now.

No it doesn't. They just sacked Highgarden and took all the gold and food stores. That doesn't in any way give them control of the Reach.

They were counting on Randyll Tarly to take control for them, but he's dead. Maybe his daughter or widow now legally controls the Reach, but if so, they'd have to invite her. And really, I don't know that the Reach Lords are going to automatically accept her. They would have accepted Randyll because he was a respected general they all knew and trusted, and he'd just defeated Olenna Tyrell, and, most of all, he was a hardass who could whip everyone in line; none of that is remotely true of Talla or Melessa.

37 minutes ago, White_Winter_Raven said:

It seems unlikely that the meeting is a response to Cersei's first summons because everyone who was going to respond already did at the beginning of the season.

She summoned the Reach Lords at the start of the season, not the Lords Paramount of all the realms.

And even if that weren't true, a lot of people who wouldn't be interested in a summons from Cersei because they're in open rebellion, or because they're trying to stay neutral, would be a lot more interested in a summons for an armistice between Cersei and Dany.

37 minutes ago, White_Winter_Raven said:

It seems more likely to me that Cersei is using Dany and Tyrion's request for a cease fire to discuss the threat of the AotD as a way to:

1) buy time to rebuild her army with mercenaries

2) try to get the dragons within range of newly constructed Scorpions

3) trap her enemies? - although that would be stupid of her because like Dany's not gonna bring her armies....but no one said Cersei was brilliant

I don't think it's 2. Maybe 3, even though it's stupid, because, as you say, it's Cersei.

But 1, definitely. She virtually said as much to Jaime. The smartest plan for her is to go ahead with the armistice and the attack on the dead wholeheartedly, using her existing ragged remnant of an army, promising to hire the Golden Company to help. But once she hires them, unless the situation with the dead is truly desperate, she can have the GC take Dragonstone and Winterfell on the way to the Wall, and there's nothing anyone can do about it. They're all tied up fighting the dead, and even if they wanted to retreat, Euron controls the seas so their only option is marching down the Kingsroad. And even if Cersei isn't brilliant, that plan is so obvious that I can't imagine her missing it, unless she threw everything behind a stupid trap at KL instead.

Which brings up one more point: Why meet at KL in the first place? You'd think Dany and Jon would insist on somewhere more neutral, but they didn't even suggest it. And honestly, I think Cersei should agree if they did. KL isn't really the best place to set a trap, because it's the only seat of power she has. If the trap backfires and Dany takes KL (or her dragons toast it), it's game over for Cersei, even if she manages to escape. If she sets a trap at, I don't know, Storm's End or Riverrun, and that backfires and she barely escapes, she can easily regroup back at KL.

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1 hour ago, Cas Stark said:

As far as Sansa knows, she is still wanted for regicide, no?  

yes. And even if Cersei really believes Jaime (and Olenna) that Sansa wasn't behind it, Sansa still would be seen as a traitor for marryng Ramsay and helping Jon.

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