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Prince_Snow

Arya vs Sansa what are your thoughts?

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7 hours ago, kevinbgwrites said:

No matter how this plays out Im gonna be disappointed I suspect. Unless the reason for an elaborate ploy is very good, its going to come across as totally needless and nonsensical.

Because they've done a pretty bad job of conveying Arya as competent, aside from dealing with the freys, it will be unsatisfying if she set a contrived plot and its LF's undoing.

It will also be unsatisfying in a sense if LF played them successfully(which based off the trailer line of sansas, and that bran/arya clearly can't die yet is immensely unlikely) because it would make Aryas embarrassingly poor attitude and spy skills unexplainable. I'd view it as an outright plot hole in the sense that she has faces.

lastly if its not a ploy, but they unite against LF after Bran talks to them or they bond etc. etc. its the worst of both worlds. LF is crushed nearly at random, Aryas a failure and weirdo and the whole WF arc will be pointless.

Its near certain LF is done for, which is just a shame, especially since he wasn't even doing anything villainous this season especially compared to what he's done in the past- He's supporting Sansa and his plot is only a response to Arya and the sister drama in the first place. This would have made more sense if he A. Had more power or B. Had some immensely malicious plot in the works this season. Him dying now in this fashion is a real disservice to his character. I wanted him to die with some insane plot afoot, or blindsided by something completely unforeseeable- Which could have been the supernatural elements of the Starks if done right, but the execution has been sloppy at best. 

It's time for him to go because he serves no purpose in the war against the dead.  His character is meaningless.  

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1 hour ago, AryaNymeriaVisenya said:

Another factor that makes this whole plot ridiculous is that we are meant to believe Sansa will make a move to have Arya 'taken care of' when she sends Brienne away. Arya has added armour-Jon. He already knows she is in Winterfell. He is not going to believe a word Sansa says. At best if Sansa hurts Arya she's exiled, at worst, she's executed. Sansa has no way of making a move to get rid of Arya without consequence.

I don't take the plot that way at all.  I take everything as pointing toward a sting of LF.  Originally, I thought both sisters were in on it.  then I came to the belief that this was Arya's game only.

Sansa baiting LF with fear of Arya, then sending Brienne away, leads me to conclude that both girls are in on it.

 

The speech Arya gave about girls and the rules was a foreshadow.  No one is supposed to outwit LittleFinger, the master of wit.  Especially a couple aristocratic little girls.  They're breaking the "rules" because they will beat him at his own game.

Sansa has NO mind to harm Arya, and Arya has NO mind to harm Sansa.

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I'm conflicted on this storyline.  While it was obvious Arya was playing the game of faces, it's not so obvious what the outcome of this exchange will be, other than Arya putting the ball in Sansa's court, so to speak.  Sansa must be incredibly stupid to not figure out where/how Arya got the scroll.  And sending Brienne away, it's not clear if that was intended to protect Arya or sign her death warrant.

Sansa has been set up to "admire" and possibly emulate Cersei, and since Cersei now knows that Sansa did not kill Joffrey, it's very possible Cersei wants to make nice with the Queen in the North for her own ends, and I don't trust Sansa's character enough to think she won't bite as the opportunity to oust her bastard brother - especially if Jon's arc moves in the direction we all think.

I don't think this is the end of Littlefinger.  

I believe we'll see Arya leaving Winterfell and heading to KL so she can skulk around for most of next season while she works on the rest of her list, having realized this season "that's not you" just as she said to Nymeria.

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23 minutes ago, Illiterati said:

I don't take the plot that way at all.  I take everything as pointing toward a sting of LF.  Originally, I thought both sisters were in on it.  then I came to the belief that this was Arya's game only.

Sansa baiting LF with fear of Arya, then sending Brienne away, leads me to conclude that both girls are in on it.

 

The speech Arya gave about girls and the rules was a foreshadow.  No one is supposed to outwit LittleFinger, the master of wit.  Especially a couple aristocratic little girls.  They're breaking the "rules" because they will beat him at his own game.

Sansa has NO mind to harm Arya, and Arya has NO mind to harm Sansa.

Bingo!!! Im hoping Bran will spill the beads on LF. But if not, then they will have enough ammo to indict LF. LF is hanging out in the wolves den which is very dangerous for him. And one thing about wolves/starks is they have learned or are learning to stay as a pack. .. Well.. outside of Jon and ghost of course.

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I've made some posts about the scenes, and such...

But at its heart, most viewers recognized how Arya was channeling te Hound at the inn right?

The last scene where Arya talked about "all I need is your face and wear your dresses" and her liking "pretty things" in the previous episode, but despite being utterly scary, still handing the dagger over to Sansa... it's Aryaspeak in anology with Sandorspeak. Same thing when Arya tells her "you're afraid" and says "I go with anger". That's such a Sandor thing: "frightened little bird" and the Hound being full of anger. She even has the "I wanted to be a knight, but I didn't get to be one", etc... And the game of faces is about lies.

What does Sansa say and conclude about Sandor at his worst moment to her: you won't hurt me. He intended the opposite: he wanted to save her. And in that sense, Tormund said it, "You're not really mean. You have sad eyes."

It applies on Arya too, except that her version is a polished-assassin trained version.  On the one hand that's cool, for Maisie's acting performance. She's truly scary when she threatens Sansa (let's not forget she watched and learned from Tywin too who was the patriarch doing it all for his family, and seeing a whole house destroyed). And I do think she's on to LF, and trying to make Sansa see the light. I also think that Sansa will catch on, because she did with the Hound as well. 

It does upset me that D&D basically make it about Sansa. Where Jon was dumbed down to give Sansa "we won WF thanks to me" (if we discount the fact she almost chose not to use the Vale at all, and could have saved lives by informing Jon and to cooperate), now Arya is Houndified so that Sansa can finally get that LF is always gonna mess things up.

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Based on the comments of Sophie Turner and Weiss there is no counter intelligence game going on with the sisters, they simply don't get alone and have never gotten along and are at odds, so I think the hope that some have that this is going to turn out to be an elaborate plot of the Stark women working together is going to be wrong.  The show shows you what they are doing on the surface.

http://ew.com/tv/2017/08/21/game-of-thrones-stars-arya-tension/

 

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I don't know.  This whole storyline has been incredibly stupid to me and seems like it's just there because there's no story left to tell until the final season regarding Sansa/Arya/Bran etc and they come up with this to bide the time.  I can't imagine LF surviving the season and I can't imagine the show going so dark as to have Sansa hurt Arya or vice versa.  Either the fighting going on between them is legitimate and they will come to their senses next week or it's all been a misleading show for LF's (and the viewers') benefit.  

9 minutes ago, Cas Stark said:

Based on the comments of Sophie Turner and Weiss there is no counter intelligence game going on with the sisters, they simply don't get alone and have never gotten along and are at odds, so I think the hope that some have that this is going to turn out to be an elaborate plot of the Stark women working together is going to be wrong.  The show shows you what they are doing on the surface.

http://ew.com/tv/2017/08/21/game-of-thrones-stars-arya-tension/

 

It's possible that they are lying about this and misleading further.  At least I hope so lol.

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15 minutes ago, Cas Stark said:

Based on the comments of Sophie Turner and Weiss there is no counter intelligence game going on with the sisters, they simply don't get alone and have never gotten along and are at odds, so I think the hope that some have that this is going to turn out to be an elaborate plot of the Stark women working together is going to be wrong.  The show shows you what they are doing on the surface.

http://ew.com/tv/2017/08/21/game-of-thrones-stars-arya-tension/

 

They aren't going to say anything that gives away the endgame.  We will find out on 5 days.

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2 minutes ago, Tagganaro said:

I don't know.  This whole storyline has been incredibly stupid to me and seems like it's just there because there's no story left to tell until the final season regarding Sansa/Arya/Bran etc and they come up with this to bide the time.  I can't imagine LF surviving the season and I can't imagine the show going so dark as to have Sansa hurt Arya or vice versa.  Either the fighting going on between them is legitimate and they will come to their senses next week or it's all been a misleading show for LF's (and the viewers') benefit.  

It's possible that they are lying about this and misleading further.  At least I hope so lol.

It would be MUCH better if the two girls were conspiring.  Or even if Arya had put on an act.  If there was so level of subterfuge going on with both or one of the Starks.  No doubt about it.

It's possible, but I doubt it, based on past history every single time the audience has collectively said 'this is too stupid, there is something more, another level' it has not been true.  Talisa was not a spy.  The waif did not kill Arya.  

So, on balance, I think what we see is what we get.  LF is for certain getting killed with that dagger, it couldn't be more obvious but the specifics of who/why I guess we will find out next week.  Cause his shelf life is well beyond it's expiration date and his doing nothing all season has diminished his character, IMO.  Better that they killed him last year or early this year instead of dragging it out.

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Arya saying she betrayed the family as she would have fought them? She was the servant to Tywin Lannister, even befriended him you could say. Why didnt she kill him when she had all those chances? Something very hypocritical if you ask me

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3 minutes ago, Hibee87 said:

Arya saying she betrayed the family as she would have fought them? She was the servant to Tywin Lannister, even befriended him you could say. Why didnt she kill him when she had all those chances? Something very hypocritical if you ask me

If you consider the possibility that Arya is baiting Littlefinger with all these conversations (through either LF eavesdropping or one of his spies eavesdropping, which would be very much in-character for him), you might see that she is being hypocritical on purpose, as she may not yet want him to know that she was the cup girl at Harranhall.  Why wouldn't she want him to know that?  Because she needs him to have confidence that A: she isn't perfectly moral (she isn't, but she's not at her core immoral in a way that benefits LF) and B: He can turn her.

I don't take anything she's said in the last two episodes at face value.  They are all measured words to draw a specific response.

I believe the response she is angling for is Littlefinger to propose to her that she dispatch Sansa and use her face to run the North in a manner loyal to Jon.  When he makes that proposal, Sansa will be in the shadows, and condemn him for treason.  She spoonfed the idea to him in her last exchange with Sansa.  Just my theory.

Would Sansa be in on the plot?  Well, she first suggested to LF that Brienne would protect either girl if the other made a move.  Then she sent Brienne away.  Sansa isn't the type to assassinate someone.  She couldn't even assassinate Ramsay, she just locked him in with his hounds.  So she didn't send Brienne away so that she is free to murder her sister, who has displayed herself to be a formidable fighter and assassin herself.  In fact, it could be argued that she sent away the only person at WF who could hold his or her own against Arya in a violent confrontation.  This is not the action of someone who fears for her life and offing Arya is not on her list of possible alternatives imo.

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Littlefinger is the teacher.  Sansa is his student. In the end the student beats the teacher at his own game. I mean haven't we all seen this movie before?  It is clear to me that Sansa is the one setting the trap for Littlefinger and he is going to fall right into it. 

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The more I think about it the more I think this should play out with Arya knowing what Littlefinger is doing and she is playing along to make him feel comfortable with his plan.  The reason is because she was Tywin's cupbearer before the Red Wedding, if Ja'Qen kills Tywin or she does maybe the Red Wedding doesn't happen.  Surely she can't be this daft to really think Sansa aided in Ned being killed because Sansa was on that platform begging for her father's life.  I think she is keeping Sansa in the dark to continue to let LF think his plan is working and she is playing Sansa for that reason.  

 

Lets be honest if Arya didn't want LF to know at least someone took that letter she would have just read it and left it there.  

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I'm no longer even convinced that Sansa is in the dark.  It has been foreshadowed that she's letting on how smart she is....Even in a poorly written story, words are said for a reason.

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I think that exchange between Arya and Sansa would make more sense if they have mentioned Meryn Trant and The Hound. Smth like:

Sansa: Lannisters have never treated me well. Meryn Trant beat everytime

Arya: Yeah, he is in this bag too.

And the Hound told Arya that he watched Sansa being beaten. 

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39 minutes ago, Ashes Of Westeros said:

I think that exchange between Arya and Sansa would make more sense if they have mentioned Meryn Trant and The Hound. Smth like:

Sansa: Lannisters have never treated me well. Meryn Trant beat everytime

Arya: Yeah, he is in this bag too.

And the Hound told Arya that he watched Sansa being beaten. 

Perhaps they'll have that conversation over LF's funeral pyre.

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23 hours ago, Lucius Lovejoy said:

I credit D&D for trying to make people have conflicting feelings about Daenerys and Arya these season - two fan favorites.

These are/were my two favourite characters. I'm not having any conflicting feelings about Daenerys, but I am about Arya. I don't mind how many people Daenerys has Drogon roast, but I really don't like Arya's treatment of her sister. She is being unnecessarily nasty.

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I really don't like how it's all playing out but...

Littlefinger defeat should be Sansa's, or Sansa will die in this fight. Arya had her waif, Bran... survived... or something... and Sansa will take her Stark mantle with Littlefinger.

At best she is aided by Arya, but with the suggestion of her playing the game of faces (If that is for realz and not reading too much into the situation) with Sansa (Which is completely unnecessary to trap LF, he wouldn't have even known about this 'game') It's more likely it is Sansa's orchestration alone, and she is fooling Arya with where her current loyalties lie, if Arya can not read Sansa she has good reason to be suspicious of her,in her own mind. The characters do not know everything the viewers do. Would explain why Arya keeps pushing the point, if you can't read someones intentions when you consider yourself good at it there is something to worry about. 

 

It adds some depth to Arya's character - no one in Westeros is perfect. She's been on a winning streak for a long time and realization that one of her skills (Reading people and plotting) which she spent a relatively short amount of time exposed to compared to her sister (Not to mention LF) is not perfect will allow her the humility to reconcile this relationship. Only other questionable decision is stealing from the faceless men (On a tangent, why are they not hunting Arya down?).

 

Only disappointing outcome for me if this is all Aryas game only. She must have picked up all the lucky charms to beat the waif, Brianne and LF alone, my eyes would be rolling so hard Ill see my brain.

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