Jump to content

Archived

This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.

xjlxking

Apparently even Directors admit travel time is a problem

Recommended Posts

http://screenrant.com/game-of-thrones-director-beyond-the-wall-timeline/

 

Quote

We were aware that timing was getting a little hazy. We’ve got Gendry running back, ravens flying a certain distance, dragons having to fly back a certain distance…In terms of the emotional experience, [Jon and company] sort of spent one dark night on the island in terms of storytelling moments. We tried to hedge it a little bit with the eternal twilight up there north of The Wall. I think there was some effort to fudge the timeline a little bit by not declaring exactly how long we were there. I think that worked for some people, for other people it didn’t. They seemed to be very concerned about how fast a raven can fly but there’s a thing called plausible impossibilities, which is what you try to achieve, rather than impossible plausibilities. So I think we were straining plausibility a little bit, but I hope the story’s momentum carries over some of that stuff.”

 

I have to say, their excuse is...bad. 

 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

There is the need to distinguish between the condensation of long time intervals in few minutes that have no influence on the story, but are just used for the sake of brevity, which might not be very elegant but can be necessary, and the time inconsistencies that actually represent flaws in the plot.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Yeah, if this was the only episode or the only instance of timing being off, then okay fine. But it's been a very obvious issue for the entirety of season 7 (before as well, but now it's worse than ever).

Also, reading that again, even with all the hedging and downplaying and using "a little bit" too much, it still basically boils down to "yeah it made no sense at all, but it kinda looked cool didn't it? Ehh who cares, y'all are nerds anyhow, caring about this stuff". Which may be true, but how they can be at all surprised by this I don't know.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The crazy thing here is, it could have been fixed easily.  Rather than the stupidity we saw (and removing Gendry from the fight, didn't people want to see him smash zombies with his hammer?).  Simply have Dany realize after her chat with Tyrion that she has let two men who are important to her put themselves in grave peril while she sat back and claimed her right as ruler.  She decides (in a dialogue with Tyrion or Missendei) instead to act like a ruler and go take the risk herself (similar to Stannis's decision to go beyond the Wall).  

She arrives just in time to save the day, which is cheesy trope, but one we accept all of the time.  

It makes her character stronger, removes stupidity and makes her bond with Jon (and Jorah) stronger.  Win, Win, Win.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
4 minutes ago, legba11 said:

She arrives just in time to save the day, which is cheesy trope, but one we accept all of the time.

It's a cheesy trope, or it makes perfect sense if you believe the Night King planned the whole thing to get himself a zombie dragon (while I'm not convinced of the latter, it does answer a fair number of otherwise implausible things).

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Tyrion: "Your grace, that raven was sent two days ago. we don't even know they are still alive"

or

Jon: "Daenerys is our only hope'

Jorah: " it has been 4 days, we need to find a another way"

 

Problem solved. Just 2 lines of dialogue.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
12 minutes ago, legba11 said:

The crazy thing here is, it could have been fixed easily.  Rather than the stupidity we saw (and removing Gendry from the fight, didn't people want to see him smash zombies with his hammer?).  Simply have Dany realize after her chat with Tyrion that she has let two men who are important to her put themselves in grave peril while she sat back and claimed her right as ruler.  She decides (in a dialogue with Tyrion or Missendei) instead to act like a ruler and go take the risk herself (similar to Stannis's decision to go beyond the Wall).  

She arrives just in time to save the day, which is cheesy trope, but one we accept all of the time.  

It makes her character stronger, removes stupidity and makes her bond with Jon (and Jorah) stronger.  Win, Win, Win.

People would have complained about just as much as they're complaining now. Not that it would stop anyone from watching. HBO and GoT are being criticised, but they're not losing a dime, which is ironic. 

Everyone seems to be bitching, but barely anyone is about to drop the show because of it.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Better not to have had the wight hunt at all.  If they must though, have Daenerys waiting at Eastwatch rather than Dragonstone - that cuts out the broadband ravens all together so you just have The Flash Gendry running back to EW and Dany leaving from there - that would at least be a little more palatable.  Just.

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
6 minutes ago, Ser Quork said:

Better not to have had the wight hunt at all.  If they must though, have Daenerys waiting at Eastwatch rather than Dragonstone - that cuts out the broadband ravens all together so you just have The Flash Gendry running back to EW and Dany leaving from there - that would at least be a little more palatable.  Just.

Exactly, and Bran could have informed her that they were in danger. There was no need for Gendry's marathon.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Is it only me who thinks that this "explanation" is like "I know it makes no sense, but I can't admit it aloud so I'll just say a few season-7-Littlefinger-ish lines" ?

28 minutes ago, El Guapo said:

Tyrion: "Your grace, that raven was sent two days ago. we don't even know they are still alive"

or

Jon: "Daenerys is our only hope'

Jorah: " it has been 4 days, we need to find a another way"

 

Problem solved. Just 2 lines of dialogue.

Jon: "Daenerys is our only hope'

Jorah: " it has been 4 days, we need to find a another way"

Tormund: "The wights are really idiots if they think that the water hasn't frozen yet."

The Hound: "Can I throw a few stones at them?"

:D

Seriously, I think that a line or two along the way you proposed would do wonders. Well, not wonders but at least it would look as if D&D are at least trying.

34 minutes ago, legba11 said:

The crazy thing here is, it could have been fixed easily.  Rather than the stupidity we saw (and removing Gendry from the fight, didn't people want to see him smash zombies with his hammer?).  Simply have Dany realize after her chat with Tyrion that she has let two men who are important to her put themselves in grave peril while she sat back and claimed her right as ruler.  She decides (in a dialogue with Tyrion or Missendei) instead to act like a ruler and go take the risk herself (similar to Stannis's decision to go beyond the Wall).  

She arrives just in time to save the day, which is cheesy trope, but one we accept all of the time.  

It makes her character stronger, removes stupidity and makes her bond with Jon (and Jorah) stronger.  Win, Win, Win.

 

I'd like this tbh. Makes more sense imo than Daenerys saying for 3 episodes straight that she wouldn't go fight WW before defeating Cersei and thus letting 4 guys (Jon, Jorah, Davos, Gendry) go on a certain suicide mission against zounds of zombies, and then three days ago (or so) instantly flying there, although Cersei still sits on the IT, because suddenly she (Dany) realizes that it isn't really safe beyond the Wall.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
32 minutes ago, Nerevanin said:

Is it only me who thinks that this "explanation" is like "I know it makes no sense, but I can't admit it aloud so I'll just say a few season-7-Littlefinger-ish lines" ?

Jon: "Daenerys is our only hope'

Jorah: " it has been 4 days, we need to find a another way"

Tormund: "The wights are really idiots if they think that the water hasn't frozen yet."

The Hound: "Can I throw a few stones at them?"

:D

Seriously, I think that a line or two along the way you proposed would do wonders. Well, not wonders but at least it would look as if D&D are at least trying.

 

I'd like this tbh. Makes more sense imo than Daenerys saying for 3 episodes straight that she wouldn't go fight WW before defeating Cersei and thus letting 4 guys (Jon, Jorah, Davos, Gendry) go on a certain suicide mission against zounds of zombies, and then three days ago (or so) instantly flying there, although Cersei still sits on the IT, because suddenly she (Dany) realizes that it isn't really safe beyond the Wall.

I agree, it makes much more sense that way.  it feels like they have hit that point now where everything has to be rushed.  When they could have easily done this stuff if they had not:

1. Dorne fiasco in season 5 and just sent Jaime to the Riverlands there.  This to me is the big one.  So much time wasted here on something that in my opinion was only put in to see Tyene's tits.  They could have even moved the Kingsmoot up to this season instead of wasting time with Dorne.  

2. Stupid pointless scenes with Missandei and Greyworm (and the scenes with those 2 and Tyrion).  Again, gotta see tits.  

3.  Cut down Dany's Vaes Dothrak scenes

4.  Cut down time spent with the High Septon

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, Dawn of Fyre said:

People would have complained about just as much as they're complaining now. Not that it would stop anyone from watching. HBO and GoT are being criticised, but they're not losing a dime, which is ironic. 

Everyone seems to be bitching, but barely anyone is about to drop the show because of it.

In the beginning, the showrunners stayed fairly true to the books established characters and made some really good choices on what plots to cut out of the show. Then the source material dried up (GRRM's fault) and the show turned into a spectacle. The CGI, the sets and the costumes are all striking. But there use to be thought provoking dialogue to accompany it. The plot holes are bigger every year. Characters say and do things that make no sense.  

People are going to bitch about this stuff. But they're still invested and want to see how the story they began 7 years ago ends. Furthermore, nobody knows if GRRM is ever going to finish the series, so at least it offers a conclusion. Essentially people are  tuning in to watch the spectacle.

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The problem is that they (D&D) are not even trying. They could have done so many things (discussed here and in other threads) to (i) indicate the passage of time, (ii) to shorten the distance raven/Drogon has to fly but they did nothing.

Instead of this we have an uber self-defensive director and showfans. Everyone who dares to critize them is a "nerd", nitpicking about unimportant details in a story with "dragons, giants and zombies"; and of course the episode is wildly popular so "they had to do it right". They does not seem to undertand that the episode (the whole season) is popular despite these plot holes and not because of it.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
4 minutes ago, watcher of the night said:

Instead of this we have an uber self-defensive director and showfans. Everyone who dares to critize them is a "nerd", nitpicking about unimportant details in a story with "dragons, giants and zombies"; and of course the episode is wildly popular so "they had to do it right". They does not seem to undertand that the episode (the whole season) is popular despite these plot holes and not because of it.

This. :cheers: 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
4 minutes ago, watcher of the night said:

Instead of this we have an uber self-defensive director and showfans. Everyone who dares to critize them is a "nerd", nitpicking about unimportant details in a story with "dragons, giants and zombies"; and of course the episode is wildly popular so "they had to do it right". They does not seem to undertand that the episode (the whole season) is popular despite these plot holes and not because of it.

Well, from now on whatever they'll do will be popular. But I'd say that the critics these week have been pretty big, otherwise he wouldn't have needed to address the time issue in a public statement. I guess...

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

 

He's admitting he knows it's all nonsensical, but hopes/thinks that the CGI wow factor will/would carry the audience over the massive plot craters.  And for the most part he's right.

The sad thing is, as has been true for some time, that a tiny bit more attention to detail, and the plot holes would disappear or become nitpicks....the fact that so many times people on this board can come up with better solutions or a line or two here and there that would address it shows that the writing of the show is the lowest priority.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
19 minutes ago, The Special Pug of Belfast said:

Then the source material dried up (GRRM's fault)

 

 

People keep saying this. Yes, the last two books are not published, but THE SOURCE is still alive. D&D can literally schedule a meeting with GRRM before they start writing to ask him ideas. I highly doubt GRRM would turn down a meeting to make sure his masterpiece is represented well onscreen.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
5 minutes ago, HungLikeHodor said:

People keep saying this. Yes, the last two books are not published, but THE SOURCE is still alive. D&D can literally schedule a meeting with GRRM before they start writing to ask him ideas. I highly doubt GRRM would turn down a meeting to make sure his masterpiece is represented well onscreen.

That's assuming that GRRM, the guy who has taken over 6 years to write this next novel in his series, actually knows where his story is going anymore.  Seems to me if he did know that, we'd have a the 6th and 7th books completed by now.  

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

×