Jump to content

Archived

This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.

Stormourne

Arya Stark - An Unprovoked attack?

Recommended Posts

1 hour ago, Apoplexy said:

I'm not sure how people see Arya giving the dagger to Sansa implying she wants Sansa to kill herself. I'll need to rewatch it, but I saw that as Arya telling Sansa she is surrounded by enemies and may need to defend herself.

It was Arya presenting a dagger to her sister.

Disarming herself.

I saw it as symbolic where Arya is saying.......I'm not going to hurt you, sister.......of course, it is confusing because Arya just spent the previous few minutes acting as if she was thinking of hurting Sansa.

It was a game of faces thing that wasn't really well done.....I think.  Mostly because Arya seems to just be messing with Sansa because she doesn't like her big sister and never has liked her and is looking to see if Sansa is a good Stark.......

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
23 minutes ago, Lord Okra said:

This is reasonable because Arya didn't see Sansa fainting and struggling to reach her father and crying for them to not do it.

Arya had been shielded from the gruesome ending sequence by Yoran.

"You didn't see that.  I made sure.".....or rough equivalent

So it is reasonable to think the last thing Arya saw was the sentencing and not Sansa's response to it.

The main theme the writers are showing (and this is not bad writing) is that Arya has no idea what Sansa has been through or who she is today........because Arya is still blinded by her dislike of Sansa in general.....and Littlefinger is using this emotion from Arya to play her so that he can then play Sansa off her......leading to Arya's death ordered by Sansa.......it is going to backfire bad.

She just assumes the worst about Sansa in every instance.....why......because show Arya doesn't like and never liked and always had unreasonable expectations......of Sansa.  That didn't just end the moment she saw Sansa again.  Should it have?  Yeah, probably.  But that isn't the Arya show character they built.  They built a character who could reasonably act like Arya is being portrayed in the show.

A very dark, cold character who dislikes Sansa. 

Sansa starts screaming and struggling the moment the sentence is announced, at which point Arya starts moving towards the dais. She is intercepted by Yoren before she reaches it/reveals herself but she would have seen at least some of Sansa's anguish and attempted intervention and would have heard the whole thing even if she didn't see the actual beheading. In the books she distinctly remembers Sansa's screams.

I'd be fine with the show showing Arya as a psychopathic asshole, as much of a waste of character as that would be, if the show wasn't simultaneously trying to make me root for her. Yeah, no. If they want her to act like a villain, have the courage to have the narrative treat her as such, an obstacle for the protagonist to overcome. 

This is a character who's defining moment was the unjust death of Mycah, the butcher boy. She instinctively steps in to stop Joff when she realises Mycah is not in a position to protect himself, and puts the Hound on her list for the crime of killing him. Yet, the character they are writing now would probably dismiss Mycah as a stupid weakling who didn't have the wherewithal to defend himself and therefore had if coming. 

ETA: She even repeatedly watched that Braavos play where 'Sansa' gets abused and raped. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
4 minutes ago, Maid So Fair said:

Sansa starts screaming and struggling the moment the sentence is announced, at which point Arya starts moving towards the dais. She is intercepted by Yoren before she reaches it/reveals herself but she would have seen at least some of Sansa's anguish and attempted intervention and would have heard the whole thing even if she didn't see the actual beheading. In the books she distinctly remembers Sansa's screams.

I'd be fine with the show showing Arya as a psychopathic asshole, as much of a waste of character as that would be, if the show wasn't simultaneously trying to make me root for her. Yeah, no. If they want her to act like a villain, have the courage to have the narrative treat her as such, an obstacle for the protagonist to overcome. 

This is a character who's defining moment was the unjust death of Mycah, the butcher boy. She instinctively steps in to stop Joff when she realises Mycah is not in a position to protect himself, and puts the Hound on her list for the crime of killing him. Yet, the character they are writing now would probably dismiss Mycah as a stupid weakling who didn't have the wherewithal to defend himself and therefore had if coming. 

ETA: She even repeatedly watched that Braavos play where 'Sansa' gets abused and raped. 

I hear ya.  It is stretching plausibility that she didn't see Sansa screaming, crying and begging but it remains within plausibility because.....the sentence is announced and Arya immediately redirects her attention from the stage and towards getting down and going to the stage but is stopped by Yoran and shielded from Sansa fainting......

This works as plausible really.....a slight stretch but not much.

I'm fine with what the show is showing from Arya because it all harkens back to the core Arya the show portrayed from early on combined with the dark version of Arya that developed.

She always was one to torment Sansa......starting with S1E1.......and that was without any shown cause.....just lil sis messing with big sis for kicks and giggles....

Later, she blames Sansa for Mycah because.......it is in her character to blame Sansa/not like Sansa.....she claims that she "hates" Sansa and then Ned talks her off that thinking......where is Ned to talk Arya down right now?  Dead.

And she grew to like the Hound because the hound has traits she admires......cold blooded killer.

Sansa.....not so much according to Arya's world view.  Which the writers are still subtly informing the viewer about........see scene where she's with Lannisters and needs to be be told why a Papa would prefer a daughter........how much value a Papa puts on a daughter is just not something Arya naturally understands.......and that is in character for her.....

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Oh my god, even in my previous comment I clearly stated that the reason Arya is suspicious of the letter is because she saw Littlefinger trying to hide the "evidence of Sansa's betrayel." We, the audience, know that Littlefinger set a trap for Arya, wanting her to believe that Sansa was the one who asked him to find the letter since LF told the Maester that "Lady Stark thanks you... Etc."

Arya acknowledged that Sansa was forced to write it, however, she unreasonably claimed that Sansa should have fought rather than give in. And that Arya in the same position would not have written in. This is an unreasonable statement, yes. But she said it because She is suspicious of Sansa... she thinks Sansa was trying to hide the letter because she feared what the lords would say had they found out about it.

Sure, LF could have just burned it. But perhaps Arya is aware of how cunning LF is so she assumed he kept it as leverage? Whatever the case, people who are claiming that Arya had no cause to suspect her Sister (whether she was right or wrong) are literally kidding themselves.

Please stop.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
53 minutes ago, Lord Okra said:

 

Sansa.....not so much according to Arya's world view.  Which the writers are still subtly informing the viewer about........see scene where she's with Lannisters and needs to be be told why a Papa would prefer a daughter........how much value a Papa puts on a daughter is just not something Arya naturally understands.......and that is in character for her.....

Y'know, for a character lauded for 'girl power', Arya is a bit of a misogynist.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, Lord Okra said:

I hear ya.  It is stretching plausibility that she didn't see Sansa screaming, crying and begging but it remains within plausibility because.....the sentence is announced and Arya immediately redirects her attention from the stage and towards getting down and going to the stage but is stopped by Yoran and shielded from Sansa fainting......

This works as plausible really.....a slight stretch but not much.

I'm fine with what the show is showing from Arya because it all harkens back to the core Arya the show portrayed from early on combined with the dark version of Arya that developed.

She always was one to torment Sansa......starting with S1E1.......and that was without any shown cause.....just lil sis messing with big sis for kicks and giggles....

Later, she blames Sansa for Mycah because.......it is in her character to blame Sansa/not like Sansa.....she claims that she "hates" Sansa and then Ned talks her off that thinking......where is Ned to talk Arya down right now?  Dead.

And she grew to like the Hound because the hound has traits she admires......cold blooded killer.

Sansa.....not so much according to Arya's world view.  Which the writers are still subtly informing the viewer about........see scene where she's with Lannisters and needs to be be told why a Papa would prefer a daughter........how much value a Papa puts on a daughter is just not something Arya naturally understands.......and that is in character for her.....

If she doesn't really have a clear memory of it (not that I blame her), why is she so quick to condemn Sansa based on a fuzzy memory? She doesn't sound the least bit uncertain about the course of vents when she's accusing her.

Kids get away with all kinds of shitty behaviour because they're kids. They don't mean it and they have no real power. When adults (or what passes for adults) do it it becomes deeply troubling. If a 5yo declares she 'hates' her sister because she took her toy it's not taken seriously. When a known assassin threatens to kill her sister this is an entirely different ballgame. It's not something that's solved by an apology and hug a day later. It's not something you just dismiss.

If you think that's the character they're aiming for and this cruel behaviour is intentional, then fine but it's not a character  I find the least bit sympathetic or compelling. Arya is one of my all time favourite characters In the books, and she's mostly fared well in the show. I was even able to gloss over her terminator chase.  It took all of three episodes of terrible writing to make me despise the character she has become.

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
15 minutes ago, Maid So Fair said:

If she doesn't really have a clear memory of it (not that I blame her), why is she so quick to condemn Sansa based on a fuzzy memory? She doesn't sound the least bit uncertain about the course of vents when she's accusing her.

Because that is Arya's character in the show and has been the entire show.  She is quick to condemn......period.

She is esp quick when it comes to Sansa.

15 minutes ago, Maid So Fair said:

Kids get away with all kinds of shitty behaviour because they're kids. They don't mean it and they have no real power. When adults (or what passes for adults) do it it becomes deeply troubling. If a 5yo declares she 'hates' her sister because she took her toy it's not taken seriously. When a known assassin threatens to kill her sister this is an entirely different ballgame. It's not something that's solved by an apology and hug a day later. It's not something you just dismiss.

I'm not dismissing it.  I'm saying it has been foreshadowed way back in the beginning that Arya is quick to judge Sansa harshly but her family can talk her back down and make her understand she's overreacting.

I suspect Jon will have a Ned like chat with Arya at some point although I'd prefer she comes to self realization that she has been unfair and harsh on her own.

Show is foreshadowing a Jon intervention imo.  Jon/Gendry bring Arya back from the edge.....

15 minutes ago, Maid So Fair said:

If you think that's the character they're aiming for and this cruel behaviour is intentional, then fine but it's not a character  I find the least bit sympathetic or compelling. Arya is one of my all time favourite characters In the books, and she's mostly fared well in the show. I was even able to gloss over her terminator chase.  It took all of three episodes of terrible writing to make me despise the character she has become.

 

I hear ya.  Show Arya and book Arya are different.  You prefer the book version.  That's fine.

The writing isn't terrible because you prefer the book version of Arya though.  Show version is very consistent in their characterization of Arya.....which is actually great writing.

She went down a dark path so we get the natural result of that.....a reall dark, cold, humanless Arya.......

But, her arc isn't done.....

She'll come to regain her humanity soon, I hope.  Prodded by Jon/Gendry.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
4 minutes ago, Lord Okra said:

Because that is Arya's character in the show and has been the entire show.  She is quick to condemn......period.

She is esp quick when it comes to Sansa.

I'm not dismissing it.  I'm saying it has been foreshadowed way back in the beginning that Arya is quick to judge Sansa harshly but her family can talk her back down and make her understand she's overreacting.

I suspect Jon will have a Ned like chat with Arya at some point although I'd prefer she comes to self realization that she has been unfair and harsh on her own.

Show is foreshadowing a Jon intervention imo.  Jon/Gendry bring Arya back from the edge.....

I hear ya.  Show Arya and book Arya are different.  You prefer the book version.  That's fine.

The writing isn't terrible because you prefer the book version of Arya though.  Show version is very consistent in their characterization of Arya.....which is actually great writing.

She went down a dark path so we get the natural result of that.....a reall dark, cold, humanless Arya.......

But, her arc isn't done.....

She'll come to regain her humanity soon, I hope.  Prodded by Jon/Gendry.

Show!Arya is a judgemental asshole. Got it!

So Jon's going of intervene or Arya comes to a realisation she was being unfair (a bit of an understatement) and... what? Sansa should just forgive and forget that her sister threatened to murder her because such a thing is in Arya's nature? Younger sisters with thier silly threatened violence, amirite? There have been years long family feuds IRL for a lot, lot less. 

When you threaten to murder your sister for a perceived minor failing from 6 years ago with no hard evidence, you have now stepped over the edge and are nearing the bottom of the abyss. There's no coming back. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 minutes ago, Maid So Fair said:

Show!Arya is a judgemental asshole. Got it!

So Jon's going of intervene or Arya comes to a realisation she was being unfair (a bit of an understatement) and... what? Sansa should just forgive and forget that her sister threatened to murder her because such a thing is in Arya's nature? Younger sisters with thier silly threatened violence, amirite? There have been years long family feuds IRL for a lot, lot less. 

When you threaten to murder your sister for a perceived minor failing from 6 years ago with no hard evidence, you have now stepped over the edge and are nearing the bottom of the abyss. There's no coming back. 

I don't know how Sansa will react if Arya apologizes.

I think she'd accept it because Sansa appears to be shocked by the hurtful way she's been attacked by Arya.

But yes, Sansa will partially blame herself for feeding into LF's plans up to a certain point and forgive Arya for being fooled by Littlefinger.......she'll pass the blame to LF and make it easy to forgive Arya in her mind.

You may be right, there is no coming back for Arya.....in which case.....I think she dies fighting for "good".....and after removing herself from being judge and jury over people's characters......

I don't like the path Arya took either but it isn't bad writing.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
18 hours ago, Gaz0680 said:

The fact of killing people off before their story completes is NOT bad writing, it is realistic. Lots of people die before their time, don't reach their potential or finish their story.

Well being realistic doesn't necessarily mean better writing. If GRRM had everyone talk like real people—full of ums and uhhs and abandoning sentences in the middle and interrupting each other left and right—that would be bad, unless the whole point of the story was to show how real people talk, like… now I can't remember the film Cassavetes first did it in, so I look like an idiot, but you get the idea. And even then, he'd have to do it artfully, to illustrate the point.

And in the same way, just having everyone die randomly just because that happens in reality would be bad. It's because he did it for a reason, and he did it skillfully enough that the reason comes through for many of his readers (and even many of the viewers of a simplified adaptation) that it's great writing, not just because he did it.

Also, the two interviews where GRRM talks about Homer are important here. In epic fantasy, the standard structure is that you know who the heroes are, and they're all heroic except maybe one who betrays the side but you understand where Boromir is coming from, and they all survive except one who sacrifices himself near the end of the story. But epic fantasy ultimately all goes back to Homer, and the Iliad had main characters on both sides, all of whom acted unheroically at times, some of whom died unexpectedly before the end. So, why doesn't anyone do that anymore? I doubt anyone would say that this makes the Iliad "bad writing", or that it's a clever idea but nobody else could possibly be able to pull it off unless they were as brilliant as the dozens of anonymous ancient Greeks who probably collectively make up "Homer". So these tropes can stand examining, and that's why GRRM chose to examine them.

Finally, it's worth looking at the fact that GRRM examined it in different ways—Ned is a PoV character who's drawn as if he's the central hero of the story; Robb is an important character, but doesn't get a PoV; Quentyn gets a PoV but ultimately his story isn't that important to any of the actual central characters. That makes it obvious that he's examining the idea intentionally, not just because he doesn't understand how epic fantasy is supposed to work.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
41 minutes ago, Maid So Fair said:

Show!Arya is a judgemental asshole. Got it!

So Jon's going of intervene or Arya comes to a realisation she was being unfair (a bit of an understatement) and... what? Sansa should just forgive and forget that her sister threatened to murder her because such a thing is in Arya's nature? Younger sisters with thier silly threatened violence, amirite? There have been years long family feuds IRL for a lot, lot less. 

When you threaten to murder your sister for a perceived minor failing from 6 years ago with no hard evidence, you have now stepped over the edge and are nearing the bottom of the abyss. There's no coming back. 

Jesus, man. Relax. Arya is being played. Once they realise who is orchestrating the feud, they will turn on LF. Arya will realise her mistake, and awkwardly try to reconcile with her sister. 

That there is no coming back is stretching it. Her heart is in the right place, but she's going about it in an unreasonable manner. And this isn't even about what happened before - this is about the letter that Arya falsely believes that Sansa tried to have LF hide.

It is that fact, that Arya assumes Sansa was trying to bury the letter that has Arya so aggressive - had Arya found the letter by chance, she would have been more inclined to believe Sansa's point of view. Remember that Arya is a character that has killed over and over, in some brutal ways, e.g., Trent., so her current behaviour makes sense. She is being played, yes, but it is not out of character.

You may not like how she's behaving. But Sansa should understand that, once LF is outed, that he was the one causing all the trouble. So for Sansa to just shun Arya and not forgive Arya is just as judgemental, especially since she is the one who keeps LF so close, even though she doesn't trust him.

The narrative will be resolved and the sisters will realise who is the true asshole. :) 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, Lord Okra said:

Because that is Arya's character in the show and has been the entire show.  She is quick to condemn......period.

She is esp quick when it comes to Sansa.

I'm not dismissing it.  I'm saying it has been foreshadowed way back in the beginning that Arya is quick to judge Sansa harshly but her family can talk her back down and make her understand she's overreacting.

I suspect Jon will have a Ned like chat with Arya at some point although I'd prefer she comes to self realization that she has been unfair and harsh on her own.

Show is foreshadowing a Jon intervention imo.  Jon/Gendry bring Arya back from the edge.....

I hear ya.  Show Arya and book Arya are different.  You prefer the book version.  That's fine.

The writing isn't terrible because you prefer the book version of Arya though.  Show version is very consistent in their characterization of Arya.....which is actually great writing.

She went down a dark path so we get the natural result of that.....a reall dark, cold, humanless Arya.......

But, her arc isn't done.....

She'll come to regain her humanity soon, I hope.  Prodded by Jon/Gendry.

The show writing of Arya has not been consistent at all. We've been over this.

And the Arya-Sansa fight in season 1 was Sansa's fault and Arya's reaction was perfectly understandable. She wasn't *hateful* to Sansa at all in season 1 like you have repeatedly claimed. She was very angry with her...and had every right to be. 

The writers have made Arya look really bad these last two episodes (5&6) for the sake of Sansa. The writers do this constantly in the show the last few seasons. They make one of their favoured characters look good by making another character sct horrible or be incredibly stupid and it is NOT good writing.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
4 minutes ago, Gaz0680 said:

The show writing of Arya has not been consistent at all. We've been over this.

And the Arya-Sansa fight in season 1 was Sansa's fault and Arya's reaction was perfectly understandable. She wasn't *hateful* to Sansa at all in season 1 like you have repeatedly claimed. She was very angry with her...and had every right to be. 

The writers have made Arya look really bad these last two episodes (5&6) for the sake of Sansa. The writers do this constantly in the show the last few seasons. They make one of their favoured characters look good by making another character sct horrible or be incredibly stupid and it is NOT good writing.

Oh come on.

The first interaction with Sansa/Arya is Arya slinging food at Sansa.

Next up, Sansa in a terrible spot but Arya "hates" her for her not standing up to her future husband.....and Ned explains this to Arya (and thereby you too)......

It has been totally consistent.

Arya doesn't like Sansa.  She had her reasons in S1.....they are just terrible ones on show.....and she has her reasons now (S7) to be all over Sansa.......they are just terrible ones....

Consistent.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Lol no. But im done arguing this with you.

We will find out how this story arc ends soon enough.

Personally Im hoping the leaks for this episode regarding Winterfell plot are wrong or it was changed after because the leaked info is a terrible conclusion and makes little sense with the writing leading up to it.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
12 minutes ago, Gaz0680 said:

The show writing of Arya has not been consistent at all. We've been over this.

And the Arya-Sansa fight in season 1 was Sansa's fault and Arya's reaction was perfectly understandable. She wasn't *hateful* to Sansa at all in season 1 like you have repeatedly claimed. She was very angry with her...and had every right to be. 

The writers have made Arya look really bad these last two episodes (5&6) for the sake of Sansa. The writers do this constantly in the show the last few seasons. They make one of their favoured characters look good by making another character sct horrible or be incredibly stupid and it is NOT good writing.

You might be equating a character who is acting unreasonably with bad writing. And that is not necessarily true. I, for one, actually understand why Arya is being so unreasonable and aggressive towards Sansa.

Aside from the fact they don't really know each other anymore, the real problem between them began when Arya saw LF with the letter. This was a trap, but Arya does not know that. She is overly confident with her assassin-skills, but LF has been playing game for much longer. 

Her character might not be likeable at this moment - not for me, I still care for Arya and I'm waiting for her to realise who is using her against Sansa. But that does not equal bad writing. Ive seen no inconsistency in her character. Arya is under the impression that Sansa is a potential threat, that she has these desires that she might not even want. 

All the problems they had when they were younger also informs Arya of who Sansa might have turned into. This harks back to the fact that they barely know each other anymore. This is indeed problematic for their relationship. 

So, let's stop hating on Arya and Sansa. They've made mistakes. We should hope that they uncover the truth and punish the true culprit l.

LF must die :) 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 minutes ago, Gaz0680 said:

Lol no. But im done arguing this with you.

We will find out how this story arc ends soon enough.

Personally Im hoping the leaks for this episode regarding Winterfell plot are wrong or it was changed after because the leaked info is a terrible conclusion and makes little sense with the writing leading up to it.

What was leaked?

Let me guess.....Sansa uncovers LF's scheme and Arya and Sansa make up????

Oh, that'd be totally consistent with the entire show from S1 til now.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 minutes ago, Dawn of Fyre said:

You might be equating a character who is acting unreasonably with bad writing. And that is not necessarily true. I, for one, actually understand why Arya is being so unreasonable and aggressive towards Sansa.

Aside from the fact they don't really know each other anymore, the real problem between them began when Arya saw LF with the letter. This was a trap, but Arya does not know that. She is overly confident with her assassin-skills, but LF has been playing game for much longer. 

Her character might not be likeable at this moment - not for me, I still care for Arya and I'm waiting for her to realise who is using her against Sansa. But that does equal bad writing. Ive seen no inconsistency in her character. Arya is under the impression that Sansa is a potential threat, that she has these desires that she might not even want. 

All the problems they had when they were younger also informs Arya of who Sansa might have turned into. This harks back to the fact that they barely know each other anymore. This is indeed problematic for their relationship. 

So, let's stop hating on Arya and Sansa. They've made mistakes. We should hope that they uncover the truth and punish the true culprit l.

LF must die :) 

LF deserves to play somebody before he is killed.....that's been his character....great schemer.

It just happens to be Arya who's being played and people don't like it.

It makes perfect sense in the show world though.....

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
4 hours ago, Dawn of Fyre said:

Oh my god, even in my previous comment I clearly stated that the reason Arya is suspicious of the letter is because she saw Littlefinger trying to hide the "evidence of Sansa's betrayel." We, the audience, know that Littlefinger set a trap for Arya, wanting her to believe that Sansa was the one who asked him to find the letter since LF told the Maester that "Lady Stark thanks you... Etc."

Arya acknowledged that Sansa was forced to write it, however, she unreasonably claimed that Sansa should have fought rather than give in. And that Arya in the same position would not have written in. This is an unreasonable statement, yes. But she said it because She is suspicious of Sansa... she thinks Sansa was trying to hide the letter because she feared what the lords would say had they found out about it.

Sure, LF could have just burned it. But perhaps Arya is aware of how cunning LF is so she assumed he kept it as leverage? Whatever the case, people who are claiming that Arya had no cause to suspect her Sister (whether she was right or wrong) are literally kidding themselves.

Please stop.

Nope, won't do it.  She had zero cause.  Being suspicious of Littlefinger doesn't equate to being suspicious of Sansa.  All she has to go on is the letter.  And...

The letter is meaningless, for all the reasons we've been talking about.  She knows Sansa was a prisoner at the time.  (The Starks in Season 1 knew it and it would be pretty mind boggling if Arya thought Sansa would be ok with them killing all the Stark people in the castle and imprisoning Ned)  She knows that Sansa was not siding with the Lannisters against Ned since she was there when Joffrey announced that Sansa had begged for her father's life and she was there watching when Sansa was screaming and crying.  Sansa told Arya that she was forced to write the letter.  Arya could only respond to that with that she would have let them kill her instead, which is insane.  The implication is that it would be preferable if Sansa had let herself be killed than if she wrote the letter.  

So why would Sansa want the letter to be hidden if she indeed wanted it to be hidden?  Well, it's not a good letter, it's one she was forced to write by the Lannisters, she would probably be happy if it disappeared forever.   That's a more sensible believable conclusion for Arya to reach that the stupidity of "Sansa betrayed her family and helped them kill Ned."   

You're wrong and I wish you weren't because Arya used to be my favorite character on the show.  

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
8 hours ago, Kytheros said:

Hypothetically, you've known someone for years and haven't gotten along with them, you've never trusted them all that much. You get separated, and you haven't seen them for, five or six years. Do you really believe that you're not going to resume your relationship with them with a measure of innate distrust?

If they were 19 now and the last time I saw them was when they were 13, I wouldn't assume any childish thing they did when they were a child (Such as tattling about Arya having a sword as you brought up earlier) would be remotely applicable to how they are an adult.  Especially x 100 if their parents and siblings were murdered since I last talked to them.  

I can't imagine distrusting someone as an adult just because I distrusted them as a child.  

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
18 minutes ago, Lothar said:

Nope, won't do it.  She had zero cause.  Being suspicious of Littlefinger doesn't equate to being suspicious of Sansa.  All she has to go on is the letter.  And...

The letter is meaningless, for all the reasons we've been talking about.  She knows Sansa was a prisoner at the time.  (The Starks in Season 1 knew it and it would be pretty mind boggling if Arya thought Sansa would be ok with them killing all the Stark people in the castle and imprisoning Ned)  She knows that Sansa was not siding with the Lannisters against Ned since she was there when Joffrey announced that Sansa had begged for her father's life and she was there watching when Sansa was screaming and crying.  Sansa told Arya that she was forced to write the letter.  Arya could only respond to that with that she would have let them kill her instead, which is insane.  The implication is that it would be preferable if Sansa had let herself be killed than if she wrote the letter.  

So why would Sansa want the letter to be hidden if she indeed wanted it to be hidden?  Well, it's not a good letter, it's one she was forced to write by the Lannisters, she would probably be happy if it disappeared forever.   That's a more sensible believable conclusion for Arya to reach that the stupidity of "Sansa betrayed her family and helped them kill Ned."   

You're wrong and I wish you weren't because Arya used to be my favorite character on the show.  

The fact that you actually believe Arya has no cause to be suspicious is surprising. The contents of the letter is not the issue, even Arya admits that Sansa was forced - her whole thing about dying first before writing it was really unreasonable, yes, and naive. What made her suspicious was the fact that Littlefinger 'acted' like it was under Sansa's orders to find that letter and hide it.

Can you seriously not understand this statement? Please, tell me if you don't. Because, my god, it is so glaringly obvious that trying to deny it at this point actually shows how intellectually challenged you are. I'm sorry for sounding mean, but that it is the truth. I want you to critically analyze my aforementioned statement, and understand that the reason Arya is suspicious is because Littlefinger tricked her into believing that he hid the letter under her orders. Why hide the letter, then, if there was nothing to worry about? Littlefinger knew this would cause Arya to turn against her sister. By denying Arya's suspicion, you're also denying Littlefinger's intelligence.

Before she even found the letter, the fact that Arya saw Littlefinger thank the maester for finding the letter, and that it was the only copy, roused her interest. Once she found the letter, read the contents, her initial curiosity turned to suspicion. "Why would she want to hide this," is what she would have been thinking. "There must be something going on with Sansa..."

It was these events, in tandem, that caused the suspicion. The letter alone would not have gotten her this worried. Can you not see that????? Oh, please god just understand this.

How Arya reacted was unreasonable, even to me. She was really aggressive, but this plays into her psychological trauma. You don't murder dozens of people and be alright afterwards. Please stop being stubborn.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

×