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Stormourne

Arya Stark - An Unprovoked attack?

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20 minutes ago, Dawn of Fyre said:

I know, but Arya can't rationalize that because she is too emotionally invested in what's she experienced. I can't see a scenario where Arya nd Sansa become BFF from the moment they reunite. The writers could have written them in different ways, but this is what we got, and I'm alright with that. People in these comments are stating how viewers are feeling sheer frustration at the plot, etc., and that is only true for the minority whp are vocal in these forums, not majority - and the minority's voice won't be heard, sad to say - I'm confidant that legitimate constructive criticism will be taken into account when they finalize the season 8 script. I'm one of the hugest Asoiaf fans in the community, and I always knew the Show would diverge from the books - there was no other option since they could not include every character and plot. I've watched every episode, and loved them all. Some people haven't, and that's alright. But the sheer amount of hate the show is getting is tiresome, and not wholly objective.

I can rationalize the current events taking place in Winterfell. Arya's character did not feel out of character. And I would know... since she is my favorite. Why can't we just all get along? :(

Oh. I do agree Arya is not able to really rationalize because of her emotions and experiences. I also agree they wouldn't be BFFs upon arrival.

I misread what you said as something different. Apologies. Still thinking in Norwegian O.o

 

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40 minutes ago, Pandean said:

But then why claim that it's a personal issue in the actual characterization itself (Sansa is a traitor and a selfish power hungry bitch, etc. etc.) than it legit being an issue of shoddy writing?

I guess that's my question.

Maybe I'm just stupid. IDK.

In regards of the Sansa-Vale knights, she not telling Jon was indeed either treacherous or moronic, and not the thing that a reliable person would do. It  should have been regarded as so by all the northen lords and Jon, and she should have been questioned about it and should have had to give a proper explanation.
 In the same sense, for example, Jon's leaving of the night watch was a serious crime, and it should have been addressed as so by the northen lords, and he should have had to give the proper explanation too (my vows were until my death, I died, my vows were over) .  In this second case, althoug the northen lords don't know the explanation (and the bad writting is shown by them not asking it, and not being outraged by the apparent desertion) , the audience does, that is why you see relatevily few people calling him "oathbreaker, liar, etc". But in the second case, Sansa's motives were never explained, not by her, not by anobody. So, the whole thing was left open to interpretation.  And that interpretation of her actions is what the audience does (and what the northen lords fail to do, due to the poor writting), some think she is a good person, some think she is a bitch. Why not? Her actions can support any of those points of view.

I'm sorry if I didn't make myself clear, you are not stupid at all, I am very bad at expressing myself properly in english.

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1 minute ago, Illiterati said:

Let's just say that if they ever are finished, the eventual US President that congratulates GRRM isn't out of college yet.

Get your pitchforks and torches...

I don't understand how certain authors can hold off writing books and finishing series like that. Like, deadlines are a thing, right?

My editor would kill me.

I guess GRRM has a lot more wiggle room though.

 

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Just now, LucyMormont said:

In regards of the Sansa-Vale knights, she not telling Jon was indeed either treacherous or moronic, and not the thing that a reliable person would do. It  should have been regarded as so by all the northen lords and Jon, and she should have been questioned about it and should have had to give a proper explanation.
 In the same sense, for example, Jon's leaving of the night watch was a serious crime, and it should have been addressed as so by the northen lords, and he should have had to give the proper explanation too (my vows were until my death, I died, my vows were over) .  In this second case, althoug the northen lords don't know the explanation (and the bad writting is shown by them not asking it, and not being outraged by the apparent desertion) , the audience does, that is why you see relatevily few people calling him "oathbreaker, liar, etc". But in the second case, Sansa's motives were never explained, not by her, not by anobody. So, the whole thing was left open to interpretation.  And that interpretation of her actions is what the audience does (and what the northen lords fail to do, due to the poor writting), some think she is a good person, some think she is a bitch. Why not? Her actions can support any of those points of view.

I'm sorry if I didn't make myself clear, you are not stupid at all, I am very bad at expressing myself properly in english.

That makes sense. And don't apologize! I take a while to process information and generally have to have things repeated.
Also, I get your expressing properly in English thing.

I'm super confused this morning and half-thinking in terribly non-fluent Norwegian.

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31 minutes ago, sweetsunray said:

It only makes sense if you consider Arya and Sansa as being the same age as when they were separated, having gone through but without internalizing any of their experiences.

Now, I don't envision an Arya-Sansa reunion to be heartfelt, but what the heck both Sansa's and Arya's character has been written as having progressed leaps in skill (from knowing how to make armor to beating Brienne in a fight), but never having matured. It's like D&D think what if we have Sansa and Arya have at it right after Ned's exceution. Well, yes, then this convo makes all sense from both characters' POV. And yes, show-Arya has reasons to be suspicious of show-Sansa. But both show-Arya and show-Sansa are ruined characters suffering from arrested development.

:agree:

I think the writers don't really care about characters and their development.

The sisters have been together for weeks but they've not talked about their past and what they've been through at all. Why? IMO there is no real in-universe reason behinde this. 

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43 minutes ago, Dawn of Fyre said:

She sure as hell didn't say anything in the pavilion when asked what happened near the Trident, didn't defend Arya. So is that not Sansa defending her future 'husband'? And at that point, LF was still outwardly colluding with the Lannisters, so it makes sense Arya would be suspicious of him and therefore, Sansa since she keeps him close like a pet dog. Arya losing her identity is in the books, and in the show - it is what allows her to become No One, albeit only for a while. That's the whole point of her character arc...

Sansa and Arya have both suffered in the show, and while Sansa may have suffered more, that does not mean she gets a free pass and we should disregard Arya's point of view in their conflict. Arya's trauma is more internal than external.

She didn't defend Joffrey.  She gave no testimony to support Joffrey at all.  She clearly says she didn't know exactly what happened.....was it a lie....yes......it wasn't a defense of Joffrey though.

It was her being smart, unlike Arya.  Arya's not very bright on the show.  She runs and calls the prince a liar.  It was a stupid, stupid thing to do.  Sansa is smarter than that.  But she wasn't about to hand over her sister either.  She made the wisest possible decision.....as Ned explained to you.

Who says anything about a free pass?  Sansa has suffered and suffered and suffered.....far more than Arya.  How is that a "free pass?"

I like Arya but you guys almost turn me against her with these outlandish, petty and immature portrayals of Sansa in defending the indefensible.....Arya's actions towards Sansa.  There is no defense for Arya to be harrassing Sansa.

Arya's been off doing her training (by choice)....helping.....not a single Stark.  Not once has she helped or even tried to help a Stark since she left King's Landing.  Not once.

Meanwhile, Sansa helped Jon take back the family home and has been helping the North prepare for war.

The current version of Arya leaves little to admire.  She's threatening her own sister......who provided her with access to her family home.......and helped Arya's beloved Jon.

When Arya came home, was she heading to WF to take back her family home?  Was she worried about Jon/Sansa/Bran/Rickon.....nope....she was just looking to complete her vengeance quest.  Which is fine, that's her arc apparently.....the mindless assassin who worships death and holds onto grudges from the past.

Sansa has been the one who did the most for House Stark since episode 1.  Robb tried but he was stupid.  Cat released the Stark's most valuable hostage.  Arya spent her time under the care of people who treated her good or under the care of those she wanted to be under.  Jon was up on the wall doing his duty as a NW.

Sansa was the only one held captive and treated like dirt for years......the only one who even tried to plead for her father's life.  She was the one being beaten for Robb's victories.  Where was Arya?  Oh, hanging out with hot pie and Gendry under the nights watch protection.......then spending a couple of days in a pig sty before playing cup bearer for Tywin.....I loved how she attacked Tywin and ended the war.....oh, wait.....she went for vengeance first then freedom instead of sacrificing herself.......then where.....oh, playing footsie with the Hound WHO ACTUALLY KILLED MYCAH.........then going and doing her training which was what she wanted......

It's been so rough for Arya huh?

When?  A few days in a pig sty in Harrenhall?  When the hound was keeping her safe and warm?  Oh, when the brotherhood was keeping her safe and warm?  Wait, it was when she was training to be a faceless man.....by choice......she had to go blind and suffer.....wait, that was because she broke their rules.....

Tell me, when on show do we see Arya suffering after she left King's landing.

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5 minutes ago, winter daughter said:

:agree:

I think the writers don't really care about characters and their development.

The sisters have been together for weeks but they've not talked about their past and what they've been through at all. Why? IMO there is no real in-universe reason behinde this. 

There are only seven episodes left of the series - at this point, I'm just taking everything at face-value. Being to critical will only cause dissatisfaction and heartache. I will leave the constructive criticism to the critics whom the writers actually take seriously. :D I still view the show in the same way diabetics view insulin. I need the show to survive while Winds of Winter is being written.

And... perhaps I don't have a 'critical' bone in my body. I can see the flaws in the show, the consistencies and plausible impossibilities. But I've never been frustrated with those realities. I think this is my defense-mechanism, so that I don't feel bad while watching a show. :P Perhaps, you could even say that since I love Asoiaf so much, I'm willing overlook these issues to enjoy the 'alternative-world' we're getting in the show.

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6 minutes ago, Lord Okra said:

She didn't defend Joffrey.  She gave no testimony to support Joffrey at all.  She clearly says she didn't know exactly what happened.....was it a lie....yes......it wasn't a defense of Joffrey though.

It was her being smart, unlike Arya.  Arya's not very bright on the show.  She runs and calls the prince a liar.  It was a stupid, stupid thing to do.  Sansa is smarter than that.  But she wasn't about to hand over her sister either.  She made the wisest possible decision.....as Ned explained to you.

Who says anything about a free pass?  Sansa has suffered and suffered and suffered.....far more than Arya.  How is that a "free pass?"

I like Arya but you guys almost turn me against her with these outlandish, petty and immature portrayals of Sansa in defending the indefensible.....Arya's actions towards Sansa.  There is no defense for Arya to be harrassing Sansa.

Arya's been off doing her training (by choice)....helping.....not a single Stark.  Not once has she helped or even tried to help a Stark since she left King's Landing.  Not once.

Meanwhile, Sansa helped Jon take back the family home and has been helping the North prepare for war.

The current version of Arya leaves little to admire.  She's threatening her own sister......who provided her with access to her family home.......and helped Arya's beloved Jon.

When Arya came home, was she heading to WF to take back her family home?  Was she worried about Jon/Sansa/Bran/Rickon.....nope....she was just looking to complete her vengeance quest.  Which is fine, that's her arc apparently.....the mindless assassin who worships death and holds onto grudges from the past.

Sansa has been the one who did the most for House Stark since episode 1.  Robb tried but he was stupid.  Cat released the Stark's most valuable hostage.  Arya spent her time under the care of people who treated her good or under the care of those she wanted to be under.  Jon was up on the wall doing his duty as a NW.

Sansa was the only one held captive and treated like dirt for years......the only one who even tried to plead for her father's life.  She was the one being beaten for Robb's victories.  Where was Arya?  Oh, hanging out with hot pie and Gendry under the nights watch protection.......then spending a couple of days in a pig sty before playing cup bearer for Tywin.....I loved how she attacked Tywin and ended the war.....oh, wait.....she went for vengeance first then freedom instead of sacrificing herself.......then where.....oh, playing footsie with the Hound WHO ACTUALLY KILLED MYCAH.........then going and doing her training which was what she wanted......

It's been so rough for Arya huh?

When?  A few days in a pig sty in Harrenhall?  When the hound was keeping her safe and warm?  Oh, when the brotherhood was keeping her safe and warm?  Wait, it was when she was training to be a faceless man.....by choice......she had to go blind and suffer.....wait, that was because she broke their rules.....

Tell me, when on show do we see Arya suffering after she left King's landing.

Are we talking about the same character?  The Sansa Stark whose refusal to tell the truth on the kingsroad led to her own wolf being killed? The same Sansa Stark who still loved and wanted to marry Joff even after her own father was thrown in prison?  The same Sansa Stark who blabbed her impending marriage to Loras Tyrell so she ends up instead married to Tyrion?  The same Sansa who instead of telling the truth and putting herself in the care of the Vale lords, her father's allies, she lies for LF?  Brienne tries to talk to her, but she tells her instead to fuck off? And then she willingly marries Ramsay Bolton?  And then when she escapes her room and is confronted by Miranda, she wants to be killed?  And when she is finally reunited with her 'half brother' Jon, she whines and then lies to him about the Vale army? 

You calling this girl smart?  That is funny.

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17 minutes ago, Lord Okra said:

She didn't defend Joffrey.  She gave no testimony to support Joffrey at all.  She clearly says she didn't know exactly what happened.....was it a lie....yes......it wasn't a defense of Joffrey though.

It was her being smart, unlike Arya.  Arya's not very bright on the show.  She runs and calls the prince a liar.  It was a stupid, stupid thing to do.  Sansa is smarter than that.  But she wasn't about to hand over her sister either.  She made the wisest possible decision.....as Ned explained to you.

Who says anything about a free pass?  Sansa has suffered and suffered and suffered.....far more than Arya.  How is that a "free pass?"

I like Arya but you guys almost turn me against her with these outlandish, petty and immature portrayals of Sansa in defending the indefensible.....Arya's actions towards Sansa.  There is no defense for Arya to be harrassing Sansa.

Arya's been off doing her training (by choice)....helping.....not a single Stark.  Not once has she helped or even tried to help a Stark since she left King's Landing.  Not once.

Meanwhile, Sansa helped Jon take back the family home and has been helping the North prepare for war.

The current version of Arya leaves little to admire.  She's threatening her own sister......who provided her with access to her family home.......and helped Arya's beloved Jon.

When Arya came home, was she heading to WF to take back her family home?  Was she worried about Jon/Sansa/Bran/Rickon.....nope....she was just looking to complete her vengeance quest.  Which is fine, that's her arc apparently.....the mindless assassin who worships death and holds onto grudges from the past.

Sansa has been the one who did the most for House Stark since episode 1.  Robb tried but he was stupid.  Cat released the Stark's most valuable hostage.  Arya spent her time under the care of people who treated her good or under the care of those she wanted to be under.  Jon was up on the wall doing his duty as a NW.

Sansa was the only one held captive and treated like dirt for years......the only one who even tried to plead for her father's life.  She was the one being beaten for Robb's victories.  Where was Arya?  Oh, hanging out with hot pie and Gendry under the nights watch protection.......then spending a couple of days in a pig sty before playing cup bearer for Tywin.....I loved how she attacked Tywin and ended the war.....oh, wait.....she went for vengeance first then freedom instead of sacrificing herself.......then where.....oh, playing footsie with the Hound WHO ACTUALLY KILLED MYCAH.........then going and doing her training which was what she wanted......

It's been so rough for Arya huh?

When?  A few days in a pig sty in Harrenhall?  When the hound was keeping her safe and warm?  Oh, when the brotherhood was keeping her safe and warm?  Wait, it was when she was training to be a faceless man.....by choice......she had to go blind and suffer.....wait, that was because she broke their rules.....

Tell me, when on show do we see Arya suffering after she left King's landing.

You seem really Pro-Sansa at this point, to the extent that you're unwilling to view the situation through Arya's eyes. Arya has not suffered much, you claim? Come now - you can't put them side-by-side and say this one suffered more so she deserves more than the other. Perhaps I am bias since the Arya in the books has suffered trauma - not physical, but physiological - and I do believe the writers were trying to portray that on screen through Maisie's acting.

I'm not here to defend the writing of the characters, but the characters themselves. Say what you want about the writing, I think the actors did the best they could with the script they received. I found the situation believable, since I know how their relationship was beforehand, in both the books and show - they were always bumping heads. All the points you made are one-sided, shining a golden light on Sansa while ignoring the realities surrounding Arya. She is suspicious of her sister, and for good reason, and Arya is not someone who communicates properly when she is sheering with anger. In this regard, she mirrors Jon Snow who was also not an effective communicator back at the Wall. That it was got him killed.

So, for you to ask when has "Arya suffered after she left King's landing" is an affront to all viewers/readers who love Arya Stark as a character. That you would ask that question shows me that you don't even know or care about her. Her trauma is psychological, more so than physical. And for you to not understand that does a disservice to your own argument.

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25 minutes ago, Lord Okra said:

She didn't defend Joffrey.  She gave no testimony to support Joffrey at all.  She clearly says she didn't know exactly what happened.....was it a lie....yes......it wasn't a defense of Joffrey though.

It was her being smart, unlike Arya.  Arya's not very bright on the show.  She runs and calls the prince a liar.  It was a stupid, stupid thing to do.  Sansa is smarter than that.  But she wasn't about to hand over her sister either.  She made the wisest possible decision.....as Ned explained to you.

Who says anything about a free pass?  Sansa has suffered and suffered and suffered.....far more than Arya.  How is that a "free pass?"

I like Arya but you guys almost turn me against her with these outlandish, petty and immature portrayals of Sansa in defending the indefensible.....Arya's actions towards Sansa.  There is no defense for Arya to be harrassing Sansa.

Arya's been off doing her training (by choice)....helping.....not a single Stark.  Not once has she helped or even tried to help a Stark since she left King's Landing.  Not once.

Meanwhile, Sansa helped Jon take back the family home and has been helping the North prepare for war.

The current version of Arya leaves little to admire.  She's threatening her own sister......who provided her with access to her family home.......and helped Arya's beloved Jon.

When Arya came home, was she heading to WF to take back her family home?  Was she worried about Jon/Sansa/Bran/Rickon.....nope....she was just looking to complete her vengeance quest.  Which is fine, that's her arc apparently.....the mindless assassin who worships death and holds onto grudges from the past.

Sansa has been the one who did the most for House Stark since episode 1.  Robb tried but he was stupid.  Cat released the Stark's most valuable hostage.  Arya spent her time under the care of people who treated her good or under the care of those she wanted to be under.  Jon was up on the wall doing his duty as a NW.

Sansa was the only one held captive and treated like dirt for years......the only one who even tried to plead for her father's life.  She was the one being beaten for Robb's victories.  Where was Arya?  Oh, hanging out with hot pie and Gendry under the nights watch protection.......then spending a couple of days in a pig sty before playing cup bearer for Tywin.....I loved how she attacked Tywin and ended the war.....oh, wait.....she went for vengeance first then freedom instead of sacrificing herself.......then where.....oh, playing footsie with the Hound WHO ACTUALLY KILLED MYCAH.........then going and doing her training which was what she wanted......

It's been so rough for Arya huh?

When?  A few days in a pig sty in Harrenhall?  When the hound was keeping her safe and warm?  Oh, when the brotherhood was keeping her safe and warm?  Wait, it was when she was training to be a faceless man.....by choice......she had to go blind and suffer.....wait, that was because she broke their rules.....

Tell me, when on show do we see Arya suffering after she left King's landing.

Season 1 Sansa was not smart. She was niaive and stupid. Arya was MUCH smarter than her then. Also, Sansa made a foolish choice, not the smart one as you claim. If Sansa had backed up Arya's claim (which was true), Robert wouldn't have done anything to her. 

Robert (her current king) explicitly told her it was a great crime to lie to a King and wanted her to tell it true. Sansa LIED to her current king, a greater crime than just supporting her sister's statement and not directly accusing the Prince of anything.

If Robert found out Sansa lied to him directly, he would have been more likely to punish her than for just backing up her sister (even if the process of doing so pointed at the Prince lying). Yes, Sansa was in a difficult situation, but she didn't make the 'smart' choice at all. She was manipulated by Cersei.

And yes, Arya may not have suffered the same things as Sansa, but she has suffered and you are unfairly dismissive of everything she has been through.

Arya too was held captive a LOT, first by Yoren taking her to the Wall, then in Harrenhall, by the Brotherhood, then by the Hound. None of those were pleasant experiences and she wasn't free.

Just as she was so close to reuniting with her mother and brother, everything turned to shit. She witnessed Stark men being slaughtered, saw Grey Wind die and saw the wolf's head sewn on to her brother's body and paraded around by Frey soldiers. Do you have any fucking idea how traumatic an experience that would be?

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13 minutes ago, Illiterati said:

I think she's helping a Stark now.  And she did revenge the Freys and the KL guard that beat Sansa.

Revenge is her arc.  Not helping Sansa.  You don't help someone by harassing them and threatening them.

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Just now, Dawn of Fyre said:

You seem really Pro-Sansa at this point, to the extent that you're unwilling to view the situation through Arya's eyes. Arya has not suffered much, you claim? Come now - you can't put them side-by-side and say this one suffered more so she deserves more than the other. Perhaps I am bias since the Arya in the books has suffered trauma - not physical, but physiological - and I do believe the writers were trying to portray that on screen through Maisie's acting.

I'm not here to defend the writing of the characters, but the characters themselves. Say what you want about the writing, I think the actors did the best they could with the script they received. I found the situation believable, since I know how their relationship was beforehand, in both the books and show - they were also bumping heads. All the points you made are one-sided, shining a golden light on Sansa while ignoring the realities surrounding Arya. She is suspicious of her sister, and for good reason, and Arya is not someone who communicates properly when she is sheering with anger. In this regard, she mirrors Jon Snow who was also not an effective communicator back at the Wall. That it was got him killed.

So, for you to ask when has "Arya suffered after she left King's landing" is an affront to all viewers/readers who love Arya Stark as a character. That you would ask that question shows me that you don't even know or care about her. Her trauma is psychological, more so than physical. And for you to not understand that does a disservice to your own argument.

Arya's eyes are just wrong.

The show tells us all that.

Name when Arya suffered that wasn't because she broke rules at the house of b/w or wasn't the result of her voluntarily joining the faceless men.

List them.  List all the ways.

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1 minute ago, Lord Okra said:

Revenge is her arc.  Not helping Sansa.  You don't help someone by harassing them and threatening them.

We've already agreed to disagree on what she's up to, until one of us is proven wrong Sunday ;)

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Arya's accusations of Sansa are preposterous for a lot of different reasons.  The main one, and I believe it's one that's not possible to defend, is that Arya was there when her father was executed.  She saw Sansa crying and screaming.  Arya was also there before that when Joffrey was informing the crowd that Sansa had begged him for her father's life.  Was Arya not paying attention?  Did the writers forget?  It's insane for her to act like Sansa was on the side of the Lannisters and betrayed her family when she was there for that.

It's also dumb for Sansa to be concerned about the Northern Lords discovering the letter. Everyone knows she was a prisoner.  Maester Luwin and Catelyn knew instantly.  It's all so stupid.

The writers clearly did not spend much time thinking about this.

14 hours ago, Ser Petyr Parker said:

It's just pointless conflict that only makes sense if you imagine the characters are idiots who never talk to each other or explain themselves. Writers often seem to like using this sort of thing as a crutch. It feels like watching Arrow. The most frustrating part was that Sansa didn't slap Arya in the face and tell her to stop being such a fool. She could have written that letter in return for a foot rub and it would still have been worth it - of course Robb wasn't so stupid as to believe anything in it. Nothing in that letter means anything. Bringing it out again is like recording a hostage negotiation then playing it back later to imply the negotiator sympathises with terrorists.

This nailed it.  The writers are always wanting a particular thing to happen so they go back and try to force everything to fit when it doesn't. They did this in Season 5 when they wanted Sansa to be raped.  They have a jigsaw puzzle and they're just taking a hammer and smashing pieces that don't fit into wrong places.  The result is ugly.

The letter wasn't even in Winterfell, as Preston Jacobs pointed out.  Robb took it south with him.  (Everyone watch his latest review by the way)

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2 minutes ago, Gaz0680 said:

Season 1 Sansa was not smart. She was niaive and stupid. Arya was MUCH smarter than her then. Also, Sansa made a foolish choice, not the smart one as you claim. If Sansa had backed up Arya's claim (which was true), Robert wouldn't have done anything to her. 

Robert (her current king) explicitly told her it was a great crime to lie to a King and wanted her to tell it true. Sansa LIED to her current king, a greater crime than just supporting her sister's statement and not directly accusing the Prince of anything.

If Robert found out Sansa lied to him directly, he would have been more likely to punish her than for just backing up her sister (even if the process of doing so pointed at the Prince lying). Yes, Sansa was in a difficult situation, but she didn't make the 'smart' choice at all. She was manipulated by Cersei.

And yes, Arya may not have suffered the same things as Sansa, but she has suffered and you are unfairly dismissive of everything she has been through.

 

Sansa was naive and stupid.  She says so herself.  She believed in a fairy tale.  She didn't appreciate what she had.

This is no reason for anybody to hate a woman.....because she was once a naive little girl??????

That's the dumbest reason to hate a woman ever.

And Arya didn't suffer much at all compared to Sansa.  She just didn't.  List the instances of her suffering outside her voluntary training.

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2 minutes ago, Lord Okra said:

Sansa was naive and stupid.  She says so herself.  She believed in a fairy tale.  She didn't appreciate what she had.

This is no reason for anybody to hate a woman.....because she was once a naive little girl??????

That's the dumbest reason to hate a woman ever.

And Arya didn't suffer much at all compared to Sansa.  She just didn't.  List the instances of her suffering outside her voluntary training.

I agree with everything you said.  I also reiterate that all the stones Arya is currently casting at Sansa are meant for LF.

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10 minutes ago, Lord Okra said:

Arya's eyes are just wrong.

The show tells us all that.

Name when Arya suffered that wasn't because she broke rules at the house of b/w or wasn't the result of her voluntarily joining the faceless men.

List them.  List all the ways.

Sansa suffered before even got to King's Landing. Let us start from there. Arya suffered when her friend was murdered by the hound, when one of the direwolves were killed, when she had to throw rocks at Nymeria to send her away. She suffered in King's Landing because Sansa did not speak up about the truth of what happened at the Trident. She suffered when Ned was arrested and she had to escape, especially when she killed that boy in the stables. Arya was a child, and she took a life - that could cause psychological trauma. She witnessed her father die in the same way Sansa did - both were held back by others. She was hunted by the Gold Cloaks, and when the Mountain's men caught her, another friend died. She witnessed human brutality - in the books she saw women being raped - so I assume this also occurred off-screen. She had to bury her Arya Stark personality to survive. She was captured by the Brotherhood without Banners, then the Hound, and when taken to the Twins, she witnessed her House being destroyed. She saw Greywind's head sewn on Robb's body... that would have caused more trauma.

At this point she became more emotionless, and it showed. She tried to bury her emotions, all save anger. She killed more people along the way. And that was before she made it Braavos.... I would go on, but you probably won't think any of this is trauma or suffering. :( Perhaps, in your world, trauma is only physical abuse?

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9 minutes ago, Lothar said:

Arya's accusations of Sansa are preposterous for a lot of different reasons.  The main one, and I believe it's one that's not possible to defend, is that Arya was there when her father was executed.  She saw Sansa crying and screaming.  Arya was also there before that when Joffrey was informing the crowd that Sansa had begged him for her father's life.  Was Arya not paying attention?  Did the writers forget?  It's insane for her to act like Sansa was on the side of the Lannisters and betrayed her family when she was there for that.

It's also dumb for Sansa to be concerned about the Northern Lords discovering the letter. Everyone knows she was a prisoner.  Maester Luwin and Catelyn knew instantly.  It's all so stupid.

The writers clearly did not spend much time thinking about this.

This nailed it.  The writers are always wanting a particular thing to happen so they go back and try to force everything to fit when it doesn't. They did this in Season 5 when they wanted Sansa to be raped.  They have a jigsaw puzzle and they're just taking a hammer and smashing pieces that don't fit into wrong places.  The result is ugly.

The letter wasn't even in Winterfell, as Preston Jacobs pointed out.  Robb took it south with him.  (Everyone watch his latest review by the way)

Although there are inconsistencies in the writing, "Arya's accusations of Sansa" are not that preposterous. Arya is indeed misguided, blinded by the Sansa she knew and has heard about, rather than the Sansa that is. Say what you will about the writing, but the characters are not acting in a way that is as "preposterous" as people make it out. Sure, the writers could have written them differently, in different situations with different motivations, but they choose this for TV Drama reasons. At this point, expecting the show to be like the novels in terms of style and quality is a battle we're bound to lose.

It is what it is. And the faster we accept this, the happy we're going to be. Because I doubt the writers are going to change the planned script for season 8. I do hope they take all the constructive criticism they are bound to receive from actual critics and make the quality better.

At this point, I feel bad for all the people who genuinely hate what they're watching. :( I'm enjoying the season, and the reason is that I try not to be so critical and look at the brighter side of things. I can't change what they create, so I'll leave that job to professionals who actually have sway over them.

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9 minutes ago, Dawn of Fyre said:

At this point, I feel bad for all the people who genuinely hate what they're watching. :( I'm enjoying the season, and the reason is that I try not to be so critical and look at the brighter side of things. I can't change what they create, so I'll leave that job to professionals who actually have sway over them.

Well, that is rather positive view on things. Thank you for your support. :D

 

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