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Stormourne

Arya Stark - An Unprovoked attack?

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10 minutes ago, Dawn of Fyre said:

Although there are inconsistencies in the writing, "Arya's accusations of Sansa" are not that preposterous. Arya is indeed misguided, blinded by the Sansa she knew and has heard about, rather than the Sansa that is. Say what you will about the writing, but the characters are not acting in a way that is as "preposterous" as people make it out. Sure, the writers could have written them differently, in different situations with different motivations, but they choose this for TV Drama reasons. At this point, expecting the show to be like the novels in terms of style and quality is a battle we're bound to lose.

It is what it is. And the faster we accept this, the happy we're going to be. Because I doubt the writers are going to change the planned script for season 8. I do hope they take all the constructive criticism they are bound to receive from actual critics and make the quality better.

At this point, I feel bad for all the people who genuinely hate what they're watching. :( I'm enjoying the season, and the reason is that I try not to be so critical and look at the brighter side of things. I can't change what they create, so I'll leave that job to professionals who actually have sway over them.

I couldn't help but notice that you didn't address what Arya had to hear and see when Ned got executed.  That's makes the whole thing make no sense. 

I didn't enjoy watching the past episode but I enjoy talking about it with other fans.  I wish the show would never end for that reason.  The episode was just one hour, the discussion and debate has been entertaining me all week.   I hated the episode but I like this thread.  :)  I like Preston Jacob's videos of poking fun at it's flaws. 

I can't look past characters I like suddenly almost wanting to kill other characters I like for no reason.  How can I not be critical of that?  Arya's been my favorite character.  This season has been making me annoyed by her.  Now I really dislike her and that sucks. It's cathartic to talk about how much it sucks here though.

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7 minutes ago, Lothar said:

I couldn't help but notice that you didn't address what Arya had to hear and see when Ned got executed.  That's makes the whole thing make no sense. 

I didn't enjoy watching the past episode but I enjoy talking about it with other fans.  I wish the show would never end for that reason.  The episode was just one hour, the discussion and debate has been entertaining me all week.   I hated the episode but I like this thread.  :)  I like Preston Jacob's videos of poking fun at it's flaws. 

I can't look past characters I like suddenly almost wanting to kill other characters I like for no reason.  How can I not be critical of that?  Arya's been my favorite character.  This season has been making me annoyed by her.  Now I really dislike her and that sucks. It's cathartic to talk about how much it sucks here though.

I think the reason why I'm not all up-in-arms over the episode is because Game of Thrones the show is like one big fan-fiction for me. It is a nice side-project for while I wait for the actual canon in the next two books. :P there you go, that is my bias in all of this. :D I do hope they step up in season 8, though. I need that to be extraordinary, we all do. And we deserve that, don't we?

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17 minutes ago, Dawn of Fyre said:

Sansa suffered before even got to King's Landing. Let us start from there. Arya suffered when her friend was murdered by the hound, when one of the direwolves were killed, when she had to throw rocks at Nymeria to send her away.

Sansa had her innocent Lady killed.  Arya let the Hound go, she forgave him......right after he's beating people and stealing from them......she forgives him and takes him off her list.  It happened in the show.

She suffered in King's Landing because Sansa did not speak up about the truth of what happened at the Trident.

You are stuck on the Trident.  Sansa's innocent Lady was killed because Arya wanted to sword fight.  If Arya had been doing what she was supposed to......Lady and Mycah would be alive and well.  She shouldn't blame herself though, Ned told us that......when he explained to her that she shouldn't hate her sister.  Do you recall?

She suffered when Ned was arrested and she had to escape, especially when she killed that boy in the stables. Arya was a child, and she took a life - that could cause psychological trauma. She witnessed her father die in the same way Sansa did - both were held back by others. She was hunted by the Gold Cloaks, and when the Mountain's men caught her, another friend died.

Wait now, Arya didn't see Ned lose his head.  Sansa did though.  Remember?  Sansa has to stand there in front of everyone and watch her father's head get cut off.  Where was Arya?  She was being shielded from the scene by Yoran?  I forget his name.

The Gold Cloaks hunting her is her trama now?  Seriously?  You mean the Gold Cloaks who weren't actually hunting her or looking for her.  Lommy died.  Arya's suffering is watching others die.  Sansa gets that plus raped and abused.  There is no comparison.

She witnessed human brutality - in the books she saw women being raped - so I assume this also occurred off-screen. She had to bury her Arya Stark personality to survive. She was captured by the Brotherhood without Banners, then the Hound, and when taken to the Twins, she witnessed her House being destroyed. She saw Greywind's head sewn on Robb's body... that would have caused more trauma.

She was protected by the Brotherhood and the Hound.  She witnessed a rape?  When did this happen on the show?  I could have forgotten, I'm not perfect.  But, I don't recall her witnessing a rape on the show.  Oh, Sansa was raped on the show.  Apples to oranges.

Arya saw Greywind's head on Robb's body.  Alrighty.  Once again, Arya's suffereing is witnessing the suffering of others.  Sansa was taken to her household's heads to view them on spikes......while being tormented.

At this point she became more emotionless, and it showed. She tried to bury her emotions, all save anger. She killed more people along the way. And that was before she made it Braavos.... I would go on, but you probably won't think any of this is trauma or suffering. :( Perhaps, in your world, trauma is only physical abuse?

Every trama Arya endured was endured in a far worse way by Sansa.  Arya watches people get raped....Sansa gets raped.  Arya almost witnesses her dad's beheading......Sansa is forced to stand front and center and actually watch it then taken to the head and tormented about it.

Arya watches someone get beaten.  Sansa watches people get beaten and then is beaten in public herself.  I mean, there really is no comparison between what these girls have been through at all.  Sansa has suffered terribly for years......Arya simply hasn't.

 

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Lord Okra

you are clearly biased against Arya no matter what and there is no point debating you even though so much you just said is wrong and/or twisted.

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1 hour ago, Cas Stark said:

Are we talking about the same character?  The Sansa Stark whose refusal to tell the truth on the kingsroad led to her own wolf being killed? The same Sansa Stark who still loved and wanted to marry Joff even after her own father was thrown in prison?  The same Sansa Stark who blabbed her impending marriage to Loras Tyrell so she ends up instead married to Tyrion?  The same Sansa who instead of telling the truth and putting herself in the care of the Vale lords, her father's allies, she lies for LF?  Brienne tries to talk to her, but she tells her instead to fuck off? And then she willingly marries Ramsay Bolton?  And then when she escapes her room and is confronted by Miranda, she wants to be killed?  And when she is finally reunited with her 'half brother' Jon, she whines and then lies to him about the Vale army? 

You calling this girl smart?  That is funny.

Sansa pleaded to have her father spared but at the time she was more cowed by the situation then wet with love for Joffrey. And once she realized how awful he was (as he did put up a bit of a front for her) she clearly was firmly Against him.

 

also Loras blabbed about the marriage to Olyvar when they were fucking not the other way around. 

 

Also, Sansa said she would rather die than be tortured raped and mutilated. Considering what Ramsay does to those who defy him and trying to escape would've made him really likely to do things--I mean Myranda basically said as long as Ramsay didn't interfere with Sansa's abilities to have kids he could and would do whatever...yeah,  "if I'm going to die let it happen while there is still some of me left" is probably the best option

 

also how did Sansa whine? Everything she said made sense. They did need more men. Jon wasn't listening to the one person there who knew Ramsay best. He paid for that when he fell into Ramsay's trap.

 

Sansa has done some dumb things when she was a child but a lot of these things you mentioned (and I can't really go into all of it because I'm on my phone) are not stupid. They're logical or not even true

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2 minutes ago, Gaz0680 said:

Lord Okra

you are clearly biased against Arya no matter what and there is no point debating you even though so much you just said is wrong and/or twisted.

Nope.

I'm defending Sansa.  At the end of Season 4, Arya was my #1 character.  My favorite......by far.  I still adore the entire season and choose it over all the others because of Arya/Hound scenes.

I'm just answering the nonsense.

Show Sansa has suffered far worse than Arya.  It isn't even close.  It is what it is and it is the reality on show.

You are a Sansa hater, that's the deal.  You are wanting to defend Arya by bashing on Sansa.  I won't do it.  I don't like the direction Arya has gone but I fully believe that in the end her and Sansa will finally have resolution to this squabble.

There is no way to justify the things Arya has said to Sansa unless Sansa actually betrays Jon at some point.....then'd....dun dun dun.....Arya was right about her evil, sinister sister all along......

But, we all know that ain't going to happen.  You don't like the arc, I understand.  I can't help you with that.  Making up crap to excuse Arya bashing on Sansa won't help you either.

Just be patient and Arya is going to come around with some Jon/Gendry/Bran/Sansa help.  I hope so anyway.  I don't like the new Sansa bashing, vengeance obsessed Arya but really.....hasn't that been Arya since way back now?  It is like the journey is almost complete....she started out hating Sansa and wanting vengeance (S1) and that's still at her core story.....which is kinda sad.

I wanted to see cold blooded killer Arya.  But, I don't like what it's lead to.  Maybe I only thought I wanted to see cold blooded killer Aray......nah, I love that.....I just don't like the Arya hating on Sansa because I've grown quite fond of Sansa over the years.  Unlike Arya, whom I loved early on.....the appreciation for Sansa was a long, slow process.  Nobody likes the stuck up bitch.  But I don't see Sansa like that anymore.......but Arya does.

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1 hour ago, Lord Okra said:

Nope.

I'm defending Sansa.  At the end of Season 4, Arya was my #1 character.  My favorite......by far.  I still adore the entire season and choose it over all the others because of Arya/Hound scenes.

I'm just answering the nonsense.

Show Sansa has suffered far worse than Arya.  It isn't even close.  It is what it is and it is the reality on show.

You are a Sansa hater, that's the deal.  You are wanting to defend Arya by bashing on Sansa.  I won't do it.  I don't like the direction Arya has gone but I fully believe that in the end her and Sansa will finally have resolution to this squabble.

There is no way to justify the things Arya has said to Sansa unless Sansa actually betrays Jon at some point.....then'd....dun dun dun.....Arya was right about her evil, sinister sister all along......

But, we all know that ain't going to happen.  You don't like the arc, I understand.  I can't help you with that.  Making up crap to excuse Arya bashing on Sansa won't help you either.

Just be patient and Arya is going to come around with some Jon/Gendry/Bran/Sansa help.  I hope so anyway.  I don't like the new Sansa bashing, vengeance obsessed Arya but really.....hasn't that been Arya since way back now?  It is like the journey is almost complete....she started out hating Sansa and wanting vengeance (S1) and that's still at her core story.....which is kinda sad.

I wanted to see cold blooded killer Arya.  But, I don't like what it's lead to.  Maybe I only thought I wanted to see cold blooded killer Aray......nah, I love that.....I just don't like the Arya hating on Sansa because I've grown quite fond of Sansa over the years.  Unlike Arya, whom I loved early on.....the appreciation for Sansa was a long, slow process.  Nobody likes the stuck up bitch.  But I don't see Sansa like that anymore.......but Arya does.

I'm with you. Arya was actually one of my favorite characters (despite people claiming I'm an Arya hater) but the amount of justification I'm seeing for Arya's action, the insane character assassination that is now her character, and the digression of her development and the excuses given for her totally inappropriate responses....I just can't support her character for any of the things. I don't think any of the things she's doing in this current season with her sister is justified. I mean, Sansa's past actions keep being brought up as justification as to why Arya could hate on Sansa but it almost feels like it's something projected onto the characters. Maybe it's just me.

I really did like Arya's character but I feel like this season it was assassinated and Sansa as a character also doesn't deserve the attack. Not when she's grown so much and spent the entire last two seasons dedicating everything for her family, home, and the North.

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10 minutes ago, Pandean said:

I'm with you. Arya was actually one of my favorite characters (despite people claiming I'm an Arya hater) but the amount of justification I'm seeing for Arya's action, the insane character assassination that is now her character, and the digression of her development and the excuses given for her totally inappropriate responses....I just can't support her character for any of the things. I don't think any of the things she's doing in this current season with her sister is justified. I mean, Sansa's past actions keep being brought up as justification as to why Arya could hate on Sansa but it almost feels like it's something projected onto the characters. Maybe it's just me.

I really did like Arya's character but I feel like this season it was assassinated and Sansa as a character also doesn't deserve the attack. Not when she's grown so much and spent the entire last two seasons dedicating everything for her family, home, and the North.

:P Don't jump ship when the going gets tough. Hell, I will sink with Arya Stark should we get sunk :D I will bend the knee to the Assassin Queen and not the Dragon Queen. Long may she reign in my heart of hearts. What I'm trying to say is that let's reserve our "assassination" talk until the next episode is released and we get a resolution to the conflict between them. I still believe there is some justification in Arya's behavior, to the extent that she genuinely feels that Sansa could become a threat. And this stems from the fact that neither Stark sister is willing to sit down and actually explain the situation - I doubt Sansa would inform Arya about why Littlefinger is in Winterfell, about how he wants to be king and she his queen, etc. I'm just trying to rationalize the writing, to find some positive out of all this negative.

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4 minutes ago, Dawn of Fyre said:

:P Don't jump ship when the going gets tough. Hell, I will sink with Arya Stark should we get sunk :D I will bend the knee to the Assassin Queen and not the Dragon Queen. Long may she reign in my heart of hearts. What I'm trying to say is that let's reserve our "assassination" talk until the next episode is released and we get a resolution to the conflict between them. I still believe there is some justification in Arya's behavior, to the extent that she genuinely feels that Sansa could become a threat. And this stems from the fact that neither Stark sister is willing to sit down and actually explain the situation - I doubt Sansa would inform Arya about why Littlefinger is in Winterfell, about how he wants to be king and she his queen, etc. I'm just trying to rationalize the writing, to find some positive out of all this negative.

O.o That doesn't sound healthy.

I don't jump ship when things get tough. I'm allowed to change my opinion on a character as they change. Otherwise I'd still hate Sansa and Jon as characters and love Dany, etc. Is that a problem?

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3 hours ago, winter daughter said:

:agree:

I think the writers don't really care about characters and their development.

The sisters have been together for weeks but they've not talked about their past and what they've been through at all. Why? IMO there is no real in-universe reason behinde this. 

 

It makes no sense to me that we haven't seen Sansa or Arya or especially Bran say anything about Rickon.  Not to mention having Sansa and Arya discuss the Hound...

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1 minute ago, Raksha 2014 said:

 

It makes no sense to me that we haven't seen Sansa or Arya or especially Bran say anything about Rickon.  Not to mention having Sansa and Arya discuss the Hound...

Do they even mentioned what they did with Rickon's body or anything? 

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4 minutes ago, Raksha 2014 said:

 

It makes no sense to me that we haven't seen Sansa or Arya or especially Bran say anything about Rickon.  Not to mention having Sansa and Arya discuss the Hound...

Or the wolves?  I thought in season 5 it would have been such a great scene if Sansa had gone to Lady's grave.  But, nope.  

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5 minutes ago, Pandean said:

Do they even mentioned what they did with Rickon's body or anything? 

They said they buried him in the crypt.

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7 minutes ago, Pandean said:

O.o That doesn't sound healthy.

I don't jump ship when things get tough. I'm allowed to change my opinion on a character as they change. Otherwise I'd still hate Sansa and Jon as characters and love Dany, etc. Is that a problem?

Um, I was jesting :P I mean, that's why I use emoticons. It is the easiest way to show emotion in writing :D

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4 minutes ago, Dawn of Fyre said:

Um, I was jesting :P I mean, that's why I use emoticons. It is the easiest way to show emotion in writing :D

Oh. See, I can't really tell when people are joking or not, apologies.
>.>

People also can never tell when I'm joking so it leads to some very awkward moments

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Sorry if it has been said before:

What if Arya is playing the Game of Faces with everyone? She has been away for too long and doesn't know who/ what information she can trust.  To me the game is about not letting your emotions cloud ones judgment on if they are being lied to.  She knew she could trust Bran just by talking to him.  Maybe she is sniffing out liars.

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1 minute ago, TheValonqarThatWasAzorAhai said:

Sorry if it has been said before:

What if Arya is playing the Game of Faces with everyone? She has been away for too long and doesn't know who/ what information she can trust.  To me the game is about not letting your emotions cloud ones judgment on if they are being lied to.  She knew she could trust Bran just by talking to him.  Maybe she is sniffing out liars.

. I always took the Game of Faces to just be a part of the FM training, a tool so to speak. 

It kinda bugs me how all the FM stuff just crop up and end up coming off like God Modding in a roleplay.

No need to think of yourself! You can automatically tell who is lying, what they want, everything about them! No need to use stealth or skill, just wear a face that will take care of all that for you! etc.

I just don't prefer the way it's being used in the show like some power upgrade Arya can do whatever.

Face-Changing aside, being a FM is about skill. Not pseudo-mind reading, games, or magic.

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It would help if they had done a better job with the lying game last year instead of spending all their time having the waif hate on her and beat her with a stick.  But, don't get me started on the criminal waste of effort and time that her Braavos story was, LOL.

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1 minute ago, Pandean said:

. I always took the Game of Faces to just be a part of the FM training, a tool so to speak. 

It kinda bugs me how all the FM stuff just crop up and end up coming off like God Modding in a roleplay.

No need to think of yourself! You can automatically tell who is lying, what they want, everything about them! No need to use stealth or skill, just wear a face that will take care of all that for you! etc.

I just don't prefer the way it's being used in the show like some power upgrade Arya can do whatever.

Face-Changing aside, being a FM is about skill. Not pseudo-mind reading, games, or magic.

Do you think they will resolve these issues in the next episode? Could the writers make up for what they did these past few episode with regards to Winterfell? I am guilty of giving them the benefit of the doubt, more often than not... so what's you opinion on the matter?

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