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Beth19

3 people I definitely think will survive the show are...

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Sam, Gilly, and little Sam. There are obvious parallels between Samwell Tarly and Samwise Gamgee from LOTR. They are both devoted sidekicks to the hero, chubby, responsible, and exhibited unexpected bravery.  I know that LOTR and Tolkien were one of the many influences on Martin. It would be cool if, as one of last shots of the entire show after everything is done and the war is fought, Sam brings Gilly and Little Sam back to Horn Hill and says something like "well, we're home" and shuts the door.

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From SSM 1165 (13 June 2001):

Quote

 

9- It's not really a question, but I've noticed a great similarity between ASOS and Lord of the Rings - the two Sams, Samwell Tarly and Samwise Gamgee. In particular, in each series, a Sam made a desperate attack on a hopelessly superior force (an Other and the huge spider Shelob) to protect a defenseless companion (Gilly and her baby and the bound Frodo). Would you care to comment?

There are a number of homages to LOTR in my book. I am a huge Tolkien fan.

 

But really, a gilly and a rose are different kinds of flowers, so they can't be the same character. :)

 

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Those three are likely to survive, I agree.

But unless Samwell dies and gets resurrected, I dont see how he will stop being a Brother of the Nights Watch. Neither will he have a child of his own. That is why he has pretty much adopted one of Craster's.

If some King or Queen absolves him of his vows (is there a precedent for this?) or if the NW is disbanded, he is more likely to end up an Archmaester.

 

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4 minutes ago, daemonTheBlack said:

Those three are likely to survive, I agree.

But unless Samwell dies and gets resurrected, I dont see how he will stop being a Brother of the Nights Watch. Neither will he have a child of his own. That is why he has pretty much adopted one of Craster's.

If some King or Queen absolves him of his vows (is there a precedent for this?) or if the NW is disbanded, he is more likely to end up an Archmaester.

 

I have this odd theory that after the final battle with the WWs due to huge casualties they will need a lot of babies in the Seven Kingdoms and that the system will be reformed in some way and all these Orders with celibacy vows may be relieved of them.  I am kind of basing this on the fact that some reformations have to occurred or the series wouldn't feel concluded and that whenever in history there has been a conflict that resulted in huge life loss there has been a baby boom immediately afterwards but could be wrong...

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1 hour ago, daemonTheBlack said:

Those three are likely to survive, I agree.

But unless Samwell dies and gets resurrected, I dont see how he will stop being a Brother of the Nights Watch. Neither will he have a child of his own. That is why he has pretty much adopted one of Craster's.

If some King or Queen absolves him of his vows (is there a precedent for this?) or if the NW is disbanded, he is more likely to end up an Archmaester.

 

Not sure about precedent for it actually happening but Stannis offers to make Jon Lord of Winterfell after the Battle at Castle Black.  Also in a Feast for Crows Cersei plans to send Osney Kettleblack to the Wall to assassinate Jon Snow and then says she would pardon him after the fact and he could leave the Wall.  I think Robb must have intended it as well when he named Jon as his heir so there is certainly precedent for it being intended/planned

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I am intrigued by the theory that we all have been fooled and Sam is Azor Ahai. We are all expecting a super swordsman but what if it's not like that at all?

- Sam is one of the few people that has killed a White Walker. Although he killed one by surprise he might do it again.

- Maybe swordsmanship is a fool idea to match a White Walker in battle. What if Sam counters them with his knowledge, knowing their weaknesses etc?

- Heartsbane. Azor Ahai killed Nissa Nissa by putting a sword into her chest. Why not a better sword than a a valyrian one called Heartsbane?

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1 hour ago, daemonTheBlack said:

Those three are likely to survive, I agree.

But unless Samwell dies and gets resurrected, I dont see how he will stop being a Brother of the Nights Watch. Neither will he have a child of his own. That is why he has pretty much adopted one of Craster's.

If some King or Queen absolves him of his vows (is there a precedent for this?) or if the NW is disbanded, he is more likely to end up an Archmaester.

 

Say the Others are defeated, and in the end and the wildlings and the citizens of Westeros come to some kind of truce, would there be a need for the Night's Watch anymore? I have a feeling that by the end of the story, the Night's Watch will no longer exist. I would not be surprised, at some point, if the Wall were to collapse, altogether.

Sam to return as the Lord of Horn Hill seems likely to me, also.

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4 hours ago, JordanJH1993 said:

Say the Others are defeated, and in the end and the wildlings and the citizens of Westeros come to some kind of truce, would there be a need for the Night's Watch anymore? I have a feeling that by the end of the story, the Night's Watch will no longer exist. I would not be surprised, at some point, if the Wall were to collapse, altogether.

Sam to return as the Lord of Horn Hill seems likely to me, also.

My thoughts exactly. If they tear down The Wall (and I expect they do), the Night's Watch has no longer a reason to exist. With sam's father and brother dead, Sam is the last Tarly heir.

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6 hours ago, daemonTheBlack said:

Those three are likely to survive, I agree.

But unless Samwell dies and gets resurrected, I dont see how he will stop being a Brother of the Nights Watch. Neither will he have a child of his own. That is why he has pretty much adopted one of Craster's.

If some King or Queen absolves him of his vows (is there a precedent for this?) or if the NW is disbanded, he is more likely to end up an Archmaester.

 

Why would the NW continue to exist?

 

We already know that the Others will make it at least as far as King's Landing from glimpses of the destroyed and snow covered throne room... so the wall is as good as gone. They will either be defeated in the south, or succeed in wiping out men from Westeros. In both scenarios, the NW loses its primary purpose.

 

It's also clear by now that the Wildlings are no longer the enemy, so the idea that the wall will be rebuilt and the NW re-established to keep them out is silly.

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I don't think the Night's Watch will be kept, and possibly Sam will be the last NC, the 1000th

Maybe Bran will childrenoftheforest-crash the isthmus between Westeros and the Lands Beyond the Wall?

Or most likely the NK(s?) will be killed and the children of the forest backfired creation will finally meet closure.

 

In the books this will be different IMO.

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2 hours ago, Camara said:

I don't think the Night's Watch will be kept, and possibly Sam will be the last NC, the 1000th

Maybe Bran will childrenoftheforest-crash the isthmus between Westeros and the Lands Beyond the Wall?

Or most likely the NK(s?) will be killed and the children of the forest backfired creation will finally meet closure.

 

In the books this will be different IMO.

I agree the NW will disband.  There will be no need for the wall to be repaired and the NW because the CotF's creation of the NK and his followers will be undone.

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6 hours ago, Camara said:

I don't think the Night's Watch will be kept, and possibly Sam will be the last NC, the 1000th

I don't really see any good reason for a last LC if the end is going to be a final victory against the Walkers—but yeah, the fact that it will be number 1000 makes it seems like it's more likely to happen. Maybe his main job will be to transition his job out of existence by administering the integration of the Free Folk into Westeros or something?

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13 hours ago, daemonTheBlack said:

Those three are likely to survive, I agree.

But unless Samwell dies and gets resurrected, I dont see how he will stop being a Brother of the Nights Watch. Neither will he have a child of his own. That is why he has pretty much adopted one of Craster's.

If some King or Queen absolves him of his vows (is there a precedent for this?) or if the NW is disbanded, he is more likely to end up an Archmaester.

 

But if the war with the night king is successful, will we need the Night's Watch anymore? 

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17 hours ago, Beth19 said:

Sam, Gilly, and little Sam. There are obvious parallels between Samwell Tarly and Samwise Gamgee from LOTR. They are both devoted sidekicks to the hero, chubby, responsible, and exhibited unexpected bravery.  I know that LOTR and Tolkien were one of the many influences on Martin. It would be cool if, as one of last shots of the entire show after everything is done and the war is fought, Sam brings Gilly and Little Sam back to Horn Hill and says something like "well, we're home" and shuts the door.

Excellent. Then we get a mid-credits scene of the door swinging open and Bronn is shoving the Tarleys back out. "What is the meaning of this?" Sam protests. "Sorry mate," says Bronn. "Castle's mine." He hands Sam a parchment which Sam begins to read; Gilly holding baby Sam and looking on with concern. As Sam reads, Bronn explains, "You see, when your father pledged loyalty to the Lannisters, all his property fell under their jurisdiction. Naturally, in the case of his death, his holdings would pass to your brother Dickon" Bronn laughs at the name, then continues. "But he died, too. And since you had taken the black, he had no legal heir and so his holdings defaulted into Lannister claim and the Kingslayer signed it all over to yours truly to honor our deal. So, my castle. Off you pop, now." He begins to close the door, and Sam looks up, asking, "What are we supposed to do?" Bronn smiles. "Not my problem," he says as the door closes. Gilly looks at Sam. "What are we going to do, Sam? We can't just end the series like this can we?" Sam looks at her, "Don't you worry. I'll think of something."

Back to the credits. Then we get a post-credit scene:

We see Sam pushing a cart along the morning streets of Braavos. "Oysters, clams and cockles! Get yer fresh cockles! Oysters, clams and cockles!"

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14 hours ago, JordanJH1993 said:

I have a feeling that by the end of the story, the Night's Watch will no longer exist. I would not be surprised, at some point, if the Wall were to collapse, altogether.

Sam to return as the Lord of Horn Hill seems likely to me, also.

I agree the Wall will eventually come down --- probably a lot sooner than we think . 

I believe Sam will become Lord Paramount of the Reach, and possibly have another child with Gilly. 

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7 minutes ago, Grey_Ghost said:

I believe Sam will become Lord Paramount of the Reach, and possibly have another child with Gilly. 

Great, so he can set up a succession dispute between his adopted son and his actual son, leading to one of them growing up feeling unwanted and miserable just like Sam did, no matter how nice he is and how hard he tries to prevent it. Just what he wants. :)

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I am pretty convinced that Sam is GRRM's author-insert: it is hard to overlook the parallels (if GRRM could imagine himself in Westeros - this is who he would be), and also several hints from the show make it somewhat clear (the Archmaester writing a book called "A History of the Wars Following the Reign of King Robert Baratheon" and Sam commenting that he would give the book a "more poetic" title - what's more poetic than calling that book "A Song of Ice and Fire"?!) So to me, we are all reading the books/watching the show made after that book, and it was written by Sam after the events of the Song ended. 

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2 hours ago, Roman Glebov said:

I am pretty convinced that Sam is GRRM's author-insert: it is hard to overlook the parallels (if GRRM could imagine himself in Westeros - this is who he would be), and also several hints from the show make it somewhat clear (the Archmaester writing a book called "A History of the Wars Following the Reign of King Robert Baratheon" and Sam commenting that he would give the book a "more poetic" title - what's more poetic than calling that book "A Song of Ice and Fire"?!) So to me, we are all reading the books/watching the show made after that book, and it was written by Sam after the events of the Song ended. 

I think Sam is more of a GRRM-insert in the show than in the books. (Although they may have just seen Sam as a self-insert in the books and decided to make him even more sympathetic and wiser to compliment GRRM while at the same time making the parallels more obvious for their more casual fandom.)

And if you take it that way, the poetic book that Sam will write in the future is TWoW; the straightforward story that the Maester wrote is S7. (Which doesn't work perfectly, because S7 isn't an overly dry version of the story but an overly simplistic and sensationalist one—but I think that isn't the real point, just that TWoW is the more poetic one.)

ETA: It's interesting to put your idea together with the LotR parallel, where the book Tolkien is translating was written by Frodo, and only the appendices are written by Sam.

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